Do you like coir better then peat? - Growing in Coco Coir - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums

pumpkin2006 · 07-27-2007, 09:18 AM

I've been using coco in my ebb n' flows for a while and have also used it in a feed to waste system; I've loved it in both applications. I've never really used anything like peat/promix, and was wondering which was the preference of growers here.

I'm sure that I will receive a bias in this particular forum, considering you wouldn't be here if you didn't like coco. Hopefully, there will be someone/a few of you, who have used both substrates and will have a comparative opinion.

Thank you

Also, what would be the consensus nutrient line out there for coco? Would lucas work fine in this medium? I've been running Sensi 2 part + additives and haven't had horrible problems, except on the wallet.

07-27-2007, 04:57 PM

enviromentally speaking, yes. Though not too sure how they get SOO much coco coir w/o impacting the enviroment too. Hmmm.

07-27-2007, 05:07 PM

Destroy peat bogs which take a very long time to develop... or... collect something that falls off a tree... which one sounds more eco friendly?

HeadyPete · 07-27-2007, 05:07 PM

Coir comes from the husks of coconuts as a waste product. It's the dried fibres under the outer husk. Coconuts are a renewable crop that we use anyway.

Coco is ph neutral.

A 5kg block 1' x 1' x 6" will expand to the size of a big bag of promix

Coco hold water better, aerates roots better, drains better. Some say no need for perlite with it. I haven't tried this yet.

Peat is acidic

It is not a renewable.

Bogs get trashed from harvesting peat

I don't see a problem with using most nutes with coir. Anything you were using with peat. I use BioBizz Premix, Grow, Bloom and Topmax.

My mix is 50% coir, 30% perlite, 15% worm castings, 3% BioBizz PreMix (dry additive), and some dry kelp and dolomite lime, approx 100 grams each for a 50 litre mix.

So far so good. I put two moms in 4" pots with the stuff and they are loving it.

You must "cook" the mix (or any organic/natural mix) for a couple weeks before use. Mix it all up, moisten it and turn it frequently over those weeks to begin decomposition and get those nutes broken down and ready for the plants to use. This is key.

The best thing is I bring a block of coir to my garden in a grocery bag, not haul a big bale of promix in and have the neighbours notice....that is priceless.

07-27-2007, 05:13 PM

The best thing is I bring a block of coir to my garden in a grocery bag, not haul a big bale of promix in and have the neighbours notice....that is priceless.

Indeed, i just ordered by coco in 5kg bales and im soo happy about it. No more having to haul up 40lb bags and bales of shit, having my arms full of dirt going up steps aint fun. You can load up on those bricks and bring em in regualer grocery bags and it just looks like you went grocery shopping.

Nevermind

meduser180056 · 07-27-2007, 10:44 PM

I used pro-mix hp and sunshine #4 for 2 years before finally switching to coco.

So far the coco is blowing away the peat mixes.

Peat needs to be treated more like soil. You have to let the medium go through a wet/dry cycle which you don't have to do with coco. So you can't really do a drip or ebb + flow with promix like you can with coco.

Peat gets acidic over time so you have to PH the mix with lime which is a PITA. PH can be a problem sometimes in a peat mix.

Peat needs to be mixed with perlite or it holds too much water and stays waterlogged too long.

Peat doesn't hold as much Oxygen as coco.

The harvesting of peat bogs is an environmental problem. Coco is renewable.

I think one of the main differences is that peat needs to go through the wet/dry cycle. So you can't treat it like hydro and get those hydro roots. It's basically just a soil grow. I know they call peat soilless, but you really got to treat it more like soil to get good results. Keeping the peat constantly wet gives you bad results.

aeric · 07-28-2007, 12:01 AM

My experience was that for peat to even work well it needs 50% perlite, otherwise it's a major PITA. At that point it is passive hydro anyways. The only benefit i still think it has over coir is the ease with which you can use organics with it, it's already been taken down to a science, and quality is always excellent. Painfully slow growth coupled with low yields make me hate it. Why would you want to go to so much effort and risk only to get a fraction of the yield?

Mixing dusty perlite is bad for your health, I'm talking 10-50 years from now you may wish you never used it.

When using pure organic ammendments in coco have been taken to perfection....there really won't be any excuse for everyone, even the most die hard organic fanatic not to use it, and I think we are getting pretty close to that day, just need a few more examples from different growers. When going the salt based or semi organic route (pure blend)...there is nothing better, not even hydro IMO.

pumpkin2006 · 07-28-2007, 12:21 AM

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeric

My experience was that for peat to even work well it needs 50% perlite, otherwise it's a major PITA. At that point it is passive hydro anyways. The only benefit i still think it has over coir is the ease with which you can use organics with it, it's already been taken down to a science, and quality is always excellent. Painfully slow growth coupled with low yields make me hate it. Why would you want to go to so much effort and risk only to get a fraction of the yield?

Mixing dusty perlite is bad for your health, I'm talking 10-50 years from now you may wish you never used it.

When using pure organic ammendments in coco have been taken to perfection....there really won't be any excuse for everyone, even the most die hard organic fanatic not to use it, and I think we are getting pretty close to that day, just need a few more examples from different growers. When going the salt based or semi organic route (pure blend)...there is nothing better, not even hydro IMO.

I agree with everything your saying, but I'd like to understand a little better, about how organics aren't fully working with coco... what would you recommend to use with coco that is organic, Advanced Nutrient Iguana line?

aeric · 07-28-2007, 01:11 AM

I imagine Iguana might work well coupled with some sort of cal-mag supplement, and have wanted to try but don't really know, it hasn't been documented yet.

What i mean by fully organic is mixing ammendments into the medium and just adding water, then maybe adding a batguano tea for example at the peak of flowering only. There have been a few impressive organic runs but they used tea throughout the grow, or some only semi-organic, mixed with perlite, or even mixed with soil when using ammendments, and there are few examples....what works for one may not work for another, and I'd like to see 3-5 really impressive grows by different folks documenting yeilds, flowertime, etc...every step of the way to be convinced enough that it is a viable alternative, or I'd just do the experiment myself if I had the space.

I'm thinking the die hard organic folks probably want to have pure coir+ammendments+water and i haven't seen that yet if it has been done. Adding perlite or peat in any amount means it is no longer a coir grow IMO, and for instance if using 50% perlite one could almost feed it the way they would a soilless grow, with regular GH nutes, organics etc...because of the different qualities of the perlite masking or somewhat nuetralizing the inherent requirements of the coir.

headypete: coco is not pH nuetral, but pH buffers well.

Grat3fulh3ad · 07-28-2007, 01:29 AM

I switched from using my own General Hydroponics flora ratios in pro mix, to using them in coco...

coco is superior to any peat product I've used, imho...

Check the link in my sig line

07-27-2007, 09:18 AM	#1
pumpkin2006 Banned Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 636	Do you like coir better then peat? I've been using coco in my ebb n' flows for a while and have also used it in a feed to waste system; I've loved it in both applications. I've never really used anything like peat/promix, and was wondering which was the preference of growers here. I'm sure that I will receive a bias in this particular forum, considering you wouldn't be here if you didn't like coco. Hopefully, there will be someone/a few of you, who have used both substrates and will have a comparative opinion. Thank you Also, what would be the consensus nutrient line out there for coco? Would lucas work fine in this medium? I've been running Sensi 2 part + additives and haven't had horrible problems, except on the wallet.
	Quote

07-28-2007, 12:01 AM	#7
aeric Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,260	My experience was that for peat to even work well it needs 50% perlite, otherwise it's a major PITA. At that point it is passive hydro anyways. The only benefit i still think it has over coir is the ease with which you can use organics with it, it's already been taken down to a science, and quality is always excellent. Painfully slow growth coupled with low yields make me hate it. Why would you want to go to so much effort and risk only to get a fraction of the yield? Mixing dusty perlite is bad for your health, I'm talking 10-50 years from now you may wish you never used it. When using pure organic ammendments in coco have been taken to perfection....there really won't be any excuse for everyone, even the most die hard organic fanatic not to use it, and I think we are getting pretty close to that day, just need a few more examples from different growers. When going the salt based or semi organic route (pure blend)...there is nothing better, not even hydro IMO. __________________ everything is everything; what it is is what it is.. -c
	Quote

07-28-2007, 01:11 AM	#9
aeric Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,260	I imagine Iguana might work well coupled with some sort of cal-mag supplement, and have wanted to try but don't really know, it hasn't been documented yet. What i mean by fully organic is mixing ammendments into the medium and just adding water, then maybe adding a batguano tea for example at the peak of flowering only. There have been a few impressive organic runs but they used tea throughout the grow, or some only semi-organic, mixed with perlite, or even mixed with soil when using ammendments, and there are few examples....what works for one may not work for another, and I'd like to see 3-5 really impressive grows by different folks documenting yeilds, flowertime, etc...every step of the way to be convinced enough that it is a viable alternative, or I'd just do the experiment myself if I had the space. I'm thinking the die hard organic folks probably want to have pure coir+ammendments+water and i haven't seen that yet if it has been done. Adding perlite or peat in any amount means it is no longer a coir grow IMO, and for instance if using 50% perlite one could almost feed it the way they would a soilless grow, with regular GH nutes, organics etc...because of the different qualities of the perlite masking or somewhat nuetralizing the inherent requirements of the coir. headypete: coco is not pH nuetral, but pH buffers well. __________________ everything is everything; what it is is what it is.. -c
	Quote

07-28-2007, 01:29 AM	#10
Grat3fulh3ad The Voice of Reason Join Date: May 2006 Location: Shambhala Posts: 8,461	I switched from using my own General Hydroponics flora ratios in pro mix, to using them in coco... coco is superior to any peat product I've used, imho... Check the link in my sig line __________________ Plant Nutrition Understanding Inorganic Salts "In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. ... It happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." – Carl Sagan "There is rebirth of character, but no transmigration of a self. Thy thought-forms reappear, but there is no egoentity transferred. The stanza uttered by a teacher is reborn in the scholar who repeats the words. Only through ignorance and delusion do men indulge in the dream that their souls are separate and self-existent entities.""Our thinking is gone, but our thoughts continue. Reasoning ceases, but knowledge remains." – Buddha
	Quote

07-27-2007, 04:57 PM	#2
Guest Guest Posts: n/a	enviromentally speaking, yes. Though not too sure how they get SOO much coco coir w/o impacting the enviroment too. Hmmm.
	Quote

07-27-2007, 05:07 PM	#3
Guest Guest Posts: n/a	Destroy peat bogs which take a very long time to develop... or... collect something that falls off a tree... which one sounds more eco friendly?
	Quote

07-27-2007, 05:07 PM	#4
HeadyPete Take Five... Join Date: May 2006 Location: The Great Gig In The Sky Posts: 1,990	Coir comes from the husks of coconuts as a waste product. It's the dried fibres under the outer husk. Coconuts are a renewable crop that we use anyway. Coco is ph neutral. A 5kg block 1' x 1' x 6" will expand to the size of a big bag of promix Coco hold water better, aerates roots better, drains better. Some say no need for perlite with it. I haven't tried this yet. Peat is acidic It is not a renewable. Bogs get trashed from harvesting peat I don't see a problem with using most nutes with coir. Anything you were using with peat. I use BioBizz Premix, Grow, Bloom and Topmax. My mix is 50% coir, 30% perlite, 15% worm castings, 3% BioBizz PreMix (dry additive), and some dry kelp and dolomite lime, approx 100 grams each for a 50 litre mix. So far so good. I put two moms in 4" pots with the stuff and they are loving it. You must "cook" the mix (or any organic/natural mix) for a couple weeks before use. Mix it all up, moisten it and turn it frequently over those weeks to begin decomposition and get those nutes broken down and ready for the plants to use. This is key. The best thing is I bring a block of coir to my garden in a grocery bag, not haul a big bale of promix in and have the neighbours notice....that is priceless. __________________ *"That's good Pete, pot..."* "By the cold and religious, we were taken in hand..........shown how to feel good..............and told to feel bad." - roger waters
	Quote

07-27-2007, 05:13 PM	#5
Mr. Nevermind Guest Posts: n/a	The best thing is I bring a block of coir to my garden in a grocery bag, not haul a big bale of promix in and have the neighbours notice....that is priceless. Indeed, i just ordered by coco in 5kg bales and im soo happy about it. No more having to haul up 40lb bags and bales of shit, having my arms full of dirt going up steps aint fun. You can load up on those bricks and bring em in regualer grocery bags and it just looks like you went grocery shopping. Nevermind
	Quote

07-27-2007, 10:44 PM	#6
meduser180056 Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 962	I used pro-mix hp and sunshine #4 for 2 years before finally switching to coco. So far the coco is blowing away the peat mixes. Peat needs to be treated more like soil. You have to let the medium go through a wet/dry cycle which you don't have to do with coco. So you can't really do a drip or ebb + flow with promix like you can with coco. Peat gets acidic over time so you have to PH the mix with lime which is a PITA. PH can be a problem sometimes in a peat mix. Peat needs to be mixed with perlite or it holds too much water and stays waterlogged too long. Peat doesn't hold as much Oxygen as coco. The harvesting of peat bogs is an environmental problem. Coco is renewable. I think one of the main differences is that peat needs to go through the wet/dry cycle. So you can't treat it like hydro and get those hydro roots. It's basically just a soil grow. I know they call peat soilless, but you really got to treat it more like soil to get good results. Keeping the peat constantly wet gives you bad results.
	Quote