thanks brother kindred spirit .... peace

[Fast_Pine]

Originally Posted by Julian

How's your world my friend?....How's everything going your way?....How's your weather...

Surely you would have a commentary about any one of many aspects involved?...(you should pen an irrigation supplement for those in areas not as forgiving as mine )

What's the story behind your main rez?...where did it come from?...already there?....

.......Good man, ive been killing more clones, and trucking water all day, you know the story..

.Things are well, im already starting to plan for harvest..Hope it will come soon, and be a big one....The rain has stopped!. My seedling patches are dead...Very few survivors...Scrawny little 3-4 inchers..Its hot as hell, and being 7000feet closer to the sun's intense rays sure doesent help..

You know, sometimes at parties and such youll hear some idiot talking bout how he plants seeds or clones, and harvests TONS of bud, buy surviving on rain alone..I can tell you, out here, that is damn near impossible...If the plant makes it, youll be lucky to get an ounce from it..In the desert,(New Mexico, Arizona), watering is a must...Specially if one expects to make any money..

After spending months setting up drip lines, tanks, and trucking and pumping water....I think of those lush rainy environments, and get Soooooooooo envious!! To grow good size plants without the task of watering is sadly something thats waaaay outta my reach, So the kinda numbers that J is talkin about cant really apply for me, or most guys out here...If yer gonna do thousands of plants in the desert, you need two things....Lots of money for supplies, and helping hands, youll need workers ya know...

Out there,(lush NE United States) a massive commercial grow could be a coupple thousand,..... out here they rarely get that big....I consider 100, 4-5foot plants with Qp-Half per, to be pretty massive..At least for one or two people...Like I said before, If there in the 500-10,000 range, they have major funding, experience, man power, and balls...The BIG opps do happen round the southwest but they tend to be the big Mexi cartells, and those dumbasses LOVE Cali, and Arizona.....

Alotta the largest commersh grows I hear of(local)...are watered by a hose, and are next to a house..People rarely do the true guerilla aproach to commercial growing in my state...These guys are lazy,,,Some idiot fences his backyard and decides to grow 500...In pots....Suprizingly, sometimes that shit works!..We have no cover out here compared to the NE, the plants stick out like a sore thumb..HUGE numbers must be done very strategically..Which means broken patches, which means many different small drip syatems, which means Loooots of time, money, and effort..Almost too much. Considering Julian can just stick em in the ground and never water again...(can U sense the jealous tone in my voice...

As far as my approach. Its all guerilla. I don't live any where near my plots. They are truly, in the middle of the nowhere...Any water, soil, tubing, fencing, or tanks must be packed deep into the forrest. Drip lines are run through the garden, and water is pumped from my truck through a hose running through the woods waaaay uphill to my holding tanks....

The main REZ..U mean the 550 gal tank covered in cammo netting?....I bought it new for like $700, it has UV proof plastic or some shit...Suposed to keep the water longer, and cooler...

It is huge, and I had to literally roll it uphill..I fuckin love that tank....It wreeeaks like fish ferililzer right now

J, If I had yer environment Id go CRAZY....Id plant alot like you..Thousands out, and taking ony the tops come harvest...U lucky mothajumpa!

[GorillaGrower]

Great thread Julian.. I had a couple questions..

Could you explain what you look for when looking at aerial views. What you would consider good or bad in the 3 differnet types of plantings early(country), middle suburban, and late plantings minis..

And what do you do about smell with suburban grows say pool grow with the utiltiy company coming by?

[Julian]

Originally Posted by Fast_Pine

.......Good man, ive been killing more clones, and trucking water all day, you know the story..

OhhhhHHhhhhhh my friend.......wtf is going on with that this year?? (clone problems?.....) Have you figured out where the problem is?? Sorry to hear........

Things are well, im already starting to plan for harvest..Hope it will come soon, and be a big one....The rain has stopped!. My seedling patches are dead...Very few survivors...Scrawny little 3-4 inchers..Its hot as hell, and being 7000feet closer to the sun's intense rays sure doesent help..

Well actually that is of significance to many.....(Many don't plan harvest until their sitting on top of it, and then start trying to figure out how they are going to transport, dry, cure, etc....should always be on top of it and have that worked out far before to avoid problems.....

Whaddya mean dead?....what happened with that? (I know you guys are getting fuckin blasted with that heat.....big time.......)

You know, sometimes at parties and such youll hear some idiot talking bout how he plants seeds or clones, and harvests TONS of bud, buy surviving on rain alone..I can tell you, out here, that is damn near impossible...If the plant makes it, youll be lucky to get an ounce from it..In the desert,(New Mexico, Arizona), watering is a must...Specially if one expects to make any money..

Well, you gotta remember also to give everything a grain of salt.......you catch the same guy a little later in the night and he'll be lecturing on how since that z you have has 3 seeds in it, it's the male plants, and, you should grow the females because it's better bud (true story, something I heard not too long ago

Well.....conditions man, conditions........you may envy our moisture but believe it, we envy that sun and humidity.......we all have different conditions to face.......(Said before...once had a late sept (first round harvesting) that was about high 90's+...100 degrees......monsoon rain....almost 487hr downpour, and, 100% humidity.........so.....you know......"lucky" is all relative pros and cons to all....

Do you address everything in spring?....or do you start working on next one earlier...(I'm usually already working, planning, etc next as soon as first started......so, this year...I was already on some details of next in late May already.....(Might help if you took care of things with plots in fall, winter, etc...nicer weather, less chance of observation of activities, etc, etc....

After spending months setting up drip lines, tanks, and trucking and pumping water....I think of those lush rainy environments, and get Soooooooooo envious!! To grow good size plants without the task of watering is sadly something thats waaaay outta my reach, So the kinda numbers that J is talkin about cant really apply for me, or most guys out here...If yer gonna do thousands of plants in the desert, you need two things....Lots of money for supplies, and helping hands, youll need workers ya know...

Welll.........not exactly the case.....this year was a hard one for many......(no rain for....who knows how many weeks....(I thought was 4-5-6....others said in some areas was 8 weeks without rain....) I had a patch also get friend because of it, etc, so, not all a cake walk, ya know? Lot of people do irrigation in these regions also...(it is after all ideal..."optimal"....)

(Did you ever cover your lines? )

And then it also depends if one is using same spot also (there or anywhere), because if your using the same spot....then you can lay everything and use again, etc....so, again, don't be too jealous.....(I alternate all spots, so, every year a lot of work initially....

I would think the biggest issue is the soil issue (having to haul it all in.....which actually comes back to optimal....I actually should be doing that, but, instead, I just make up for it with numbers......if I hauled in soil, installed irrigation....eh, might be able to cut numbers in half...(actually have been gravitating towards numbers reduction for a while.....would really like to get it down to smaller numbers and tended to giants....but then the late patches would throw that right off again anyway

Out there,(lush NE United States) a massive commercial grow could be a coupple thousand,..... out here they rarely get that big....I consider 100, 4-5foot plants with Qp-Half per, to be pretty massive..At least for one or two people...Like I said before, If there in the 500-10,000 range, they have major funding, experience, man power, and balls...The BIG opps do happen round the southwest but they tend to be the big Mexi cartells, and those dumbasses LOVE Cali, and Arizona.....

I personally don't understand those guys......more get busted than come through fine because of how they do it.....you plant 20-30-50k+ in fuckin rows in the middle of nowhere, fuck, what do you expect to happen ...at least they could scatter and try and do patches of 500 staggered, etc, something like that.......I mean......destined to fail even before it's started......Most I would do is 100 (larger) ones, and, scattered, staggered, and, that's on a pretty lush background also, so......

(And then you have the aspects of mobility as mentioned above......I mean, if going to go through all the expense and trouble....at least do it somewhere else that's not the hottest state in the friggin nation for eradication, ya know? Jmo...but, I think their approach is seriously flawed........given the scope and objectives, etc......

Alotta the largest commersh grows I hear of(local)...are watered by a hose, and are next to a house..People rarely do the true guerilla aproach to commercial growing in my state...These guys are lazy,,,Some idiot fences his backyard and decides to grow 500...In pots....Suprizingly, sometimes that shit works!..We have no cover out here compared to the NE, the plants stick out like a sore thumb..HUGE numbers must be done very strategically..Which means broken patches, which means many different small drip syatems, which means Loooots of time, money, and effort..Almost too much. Considering Julian can just stick em in the ground and never water again...(can U sense the jealous tone in my voice...

Well, you could do the same?...(backyard, fence, irrigation, keep em small, etc....) and, don't be so jealous my friend......while your laying back in your canoe guess whose working in 100 degrees I'm basically 24/7/365 when running batches (not an exaggeration.....At harvest I am working on next one...while my own partners are celebrating the holidays and taking vacating and such I am out scouting and sometimes clearing spots....while their clean in spring I am handling larger numbers for prep.....stocking and starting and doing layouts, etc....When your done digging, I'm just getting started...(sure, use power to do it but power just makes it a little easier and quicker.....still lot of hard work to spend every weekend drilling and prepping holes for 12 hrs at a time in the sun

They say the "grass is greener on the other side of the fence"......it's not my friend....at all...there's just a little more of it (one of my favorite sayings in real life

That's another reason why I prefer the mini's also.....minimal lead time...prep...quick hit and run.......big difference from working and planting year round to 3-4 months

As far as my approach. Its all guerilla. I don't live any where near my plots. They are truly, in the middle of the nowhere...Any water, soil, tubing, fencing, or tanks must be packed deep into the forrest. Drip lines are run through the garden, and water is pumped from my truck through a hose running through the woods waaaay uphill to my holding tanks....

Well...my bigger ones are 4+/- hrs away...and, spread out over maybe ..........50 miles of so....nothing but forest.....so....I'd be better off as I said doing irrigation and bringing in soil, but...as far as the irrigation goes.....always has made me nervous...and, I'll take the hit on yield and make it up for numbers so I don't have it all set up (and have to set it up....) Soil is half way decent......could only benefit by bringing it in, but, again....adds a lot of extra work in extreme volume so I prefer to go bare basics and make it up on numbers.....all has to do with area.......

The main REZ..U mean the 550 gal tank covered in cammo netting?....I bought it new for like $700, it has UV proof plastic or some shit...Suposed to keep the water longer, and cooler...

It is huge, and I had to literally roll it uphill..I fuckin love that tank....It wreeeaks like fish ferililzer right now

That's the one...I love it........how's it working out?...worth it's weight in gold?

J, If I had yer environment Id go CRAZY....Id plant alot like you..Thousands out, and taking ony the tops come harvest...U lucky mothajumpa!

well, now you understand my drive with the endless planting cause you would brother (go crazy ) Numbers only limited by the amount of work you want to put in......

Besides......don't be jealous.....your not around come harvest

[Julian]

Originally Posted by Ganico

How do you dry yours outdoors? Up in shady trees, or what?

Basics of growing....When you can, where you can, how you can....(applies to any aspect....)

There's many ways which range to how I do and how others do....

For me, the best and preferred is simply to use existing trees and such....some areas we have old barbed wire fences running through middle of forest, and, if area is covered enough, and, enough circulation we use them....(some are open, some run right under and through trees, so, we cut apart larger plants and hang, works well....

Can also string lines in trees, use those (one has to make sure plants not touching.....circulation is key....more so than conditions I believe....)

You can also lay lines down, tie one to end of branch of rock and throw them up higher over a branch, lay them down in rows over lines (cables, rope, whatever you have handy...) and then do the same with other end, then they can be pulled as high into canopy as you like.......We also use tree spots and use branches to hang, but, again, key is circulation....

I recently wrote elsewhere how sometimes I will come to a spot...stand...have a cigarette...maybe a beer, and, just stand..."feel" the area..(circulation)......see what it's like....you don't want to find out later it wasn;'t a good spot, so, if not sure?...well, then you wait until sure.....

Many will speak of enclosures......personally, I feel they merely keep temps up and hinder circulation....and, as I have said before......go into any enclosure, be it an outbuilding, or tent,....sit for little while, and, one will find when they leave it's actually cooler outside.....so....I don't favor them....

Some will tie ropes around trunks of larger trees, but, I have, and, would recommend against it, because the sides of the plants against the trees will again receive no circulation....and, creates problems.....

So, in the end, key to out hang is more circulation and your starting point than existing conditions which will change by the hour during the course of the week.,....(Starting point meaning if your facing issues at time of cut, it's not a good candidate and can only make problems worse.......if everything fine at the cut, most likely will continue to be if adequate cover and circulation........) I've written quite a lot about it over the years, so, really nothing more I could add that hasn't been said (the above included, but, trying to create a summary....)

In the end, it's the most superior product one will ever produce, and, all who see finished product will agree. It's always my advice people try a little, maybe their smaller stuff that would go to bubble anyway, from an earlier round (so once they see results they can run more....later round will be too late....)

all talk no pics
EDIT clearly misjudged this, not a big fan of commercial growing but quite sure Julian is the real deal

[Julian]

Originally Posted by GorillaGrower

Great thread Julian.. I had a couple questions..

Could you explain what you look for when looking at aerial views. What you would consider good or bad in the 3 differnet types of plantings early(country), middle suburban, and late plantings minis..

And what do you do about smell with suburban grows say pool grow with the utiltiy company coming by?

Not really my thread, just a continuation and flip from the indoor....thought given the time of year, out would be appropriate

Aerials I use most when either looking for properties (I can't physically visit 100 and walk every inch of land and see what borders them beyond the lot lines, etc), and, might use it also when I come across forest spots, and, also, to check my own larger projects and look for other things, potential issues, new spots, etc....(One of my spots (general location) is many combined, so.."spot" in that case used to label 100+ "spots", etc.....

I mean, the main difference between the 3 is volume it allows due to location.....

While I love my larger spot to death, I mean, it's fuckin 4 hours away....., which makes any prep having to do with it a major affair, and, also, any inspections, and, also, adds that much more of a problem and risk to harvest....so, yeah, sure, on site it's free reign....but, everything turns into a project and harvest not a pleasant time...

Mid areas....somewhat closer, volume drastically reduced (for larger plants...almost an impossibility.....) easier to get to....less time to spend, little more risk but of course that is assessed from the beginning and spots wouldn't be done if there was obvious potential problems....Can also feed into mini's which are about as safe as you can get in any location (city, mid, distant/forest...but, of course, distant spots it's gravy because no problem running larger things early season.......

City spots, well.....the spots I personally find and do not really a problem...I keep em smaller because I believe it safer to be such.....but, flip side is numbers not an issue when mini's, and, of course, while it appears safe there is always chance of X Factor problems, so, I find myself on a daily basis on my travels checking general region from distance (driving), to make sure I don't see any crews, activity, etc, and, if I do?...well, those spots are automaticallt written off and I'm not going back, period, ever.

You know...in the end...it's all "apples and oranges", and, goes back to grow 101......You do what you can, when you can, where you can........and, as I tend to say often: "Site dictates the method"....lot of people are fixed on a single method and, as such, pass on many, many potential spots, but, in keeping with the above.."when, where, how"....I mean, you work with what you have...plot if a plot.....objective is yield end of season.....so......me, personally?....I saw use what you have , your resources to pull what , where, and when you can, because, in the end, it's about yield......and, not all have what they wish they did, so.....

I could go with the one bigger spot and nothing else, but, why just leave ignore all other spots when I could add those for more "gravy"? ....ya know?....

Everything "is what it is", and, you work with that and do the best you can.....One of the reasons I tend to cover such things is because as above, all to not have the same options and resources (spots, budget, etc), although we do all share the same basic abilities to a degree, health matters aside...(while one may plant more, more often, quicker...almost all have the ability to do any number of spots to some degree......)

Hope that was addressed as asked....

[Julian]

Originally Posted by GorillaGrower

And what do you do about smell with suburban grows say pool grow with the utiltiy company coming by?

Missed that, sorry..........

Well, as said.....you can do a lot to separate plots and I would never do anything where any would have the chance to come close to it (hence example of cutting apart lots with fenced areas, dog run things and such, always back of lot providing it is good..(and, goes back to site selection...lot of people just pick something......I think people should think, rethink, and always try and go through as many scenarios in mind as they can, and, I mean, if not "perfect", then, youi pass and continue till you find something you feel is.....

Same with indoor....you don't "pick a spot" per se....you wait until the proper spot presents itself.... (I've had something I want to do on burner for a while........thought this year, but, for various reasons maybe not.....maybe next season......always working on it, aware, etc.....soon as I find a spot I feel is right, safe, etc, it's a go, and, in the meantime, I always have other things going, so, not a tremendous loss......

Smell is misunderstood.......you sometimes hear of how larger ones can be smelled from the air, and, these are large, as in large, as in massive...(I just borrwed the title from other thread...."massive" to me is 20-30,000, etc......and, really, I would never do what I consider massive the way people think about it...which is the reason why they can be smelled is of course they plant them really....together....etc..... .(ie: not spreading 10,000 out at 100 locations...spreading 50,000 out at 5 locations...), and, smell, well, all depends "which way the wind blows".....ie: you can smell a cigarette lit if the wind blowing just the right way at a distance...you really can....

The most I have seen is, when coming up on a spot might get a whiff..but, again, literally depends on which way the wind is blowing, and, as such, that whiff might be gone if it changes direction, etc....so, of course that is another reason why everything always helps the more it is spread out....

People who keep mothers, longer prep can select low odor moms (many people do that actually....) And, also depends location...lot of wooded areas have a lot of extra vegetation to contribute...yes, of course different smell, but, a lot of "green" in the air......I've never had any serious problems in most locations...but, that's because they were good spots to start with.....If your doing something in a tighter spot (neighbors), you want to be more aware, and, proceed accordingly (numbers, proximity, etc...)

The larger out spots farther out...I mean, me personally....I could probably do more than I do.,..(I like minimal per site, spread out, etc.....but, you know...that's just caution.....something happens, loss is controlled, as well as risk, etc.....in the bigger ones I don't do spots any closer than maybe........city block or 2?......if walking, maybe 5 minutes from spot to spot...more or less.....bust, thieves, etc...want to limit what they get......have to assume that from the start.......and, applies even more so actually to people running smaller as they can afford to lose even less.......

[Julian]

Also of interest, and, specifically regarding the pool angle is I was having a discussion with someone the past week (real life) about the angle and aspects of running water and the generation (or lack of) and the aspect of positive and negative ions.....(which of course can effect odor, etc....)

Didn't come out to any conclusions either way, but, was planning to look it up and do a little research this week because honestly just never thought about it before.....(some pools will have waterfalls, fountains worked into the surrounding landscaping, etc.....)

I thought it was fairly interesting subject also.....

(I believe running water will generate positive/negative ions, but, not sure, have to look it up....never occurred to me until this past week....)

Just as I thought......(just looked it up....I guess question answered...)

You’ve probably heard of the ‘ionic’ craze that’s currently sweeping through the electronics industry, from expensive ionic air purifiers to ionic hair dryers – but most people don’t understand how positive and negative ions work.

The air is electrically charged with both positive and negative ions. Positive ions are emitted by all standard household appliances such as microwaves, computers, televisions, refrigerators, etc. Breathing in these positive ions each day can contribute to feelings of decreased energy and overall reduced health, which most people aren't aware of. Negative ions, on the other hand, are found in fresh mountain air, beaches, streams, and running water.

Water fountains can enrich the air in your home with negative ions, which in turn reduce the air pollution. A negative ion charge is created by the rupturing of the water molecule as water splashes. Dust and other airborne impurities are attracted by the negative ions, which means your water fountain is actively working to purify the air as they are running.

(Cause I remembered, like 20+ years ago a lot of people using them (generators) for odor control....)

[Julian]

More items of use, applicable to indoor, or out, to 500 or 5000, is that included in planning stages, you always want to try and develop the most efficient approach as possible, and, if not, one can have an approach which in the end actually creates more work...Should always be thought out carefully because, of course, one mistake with several plants is not a problem....the same mistake in volume multiples that problem to no end.....this can be cloning, germing, early veg, planting, drying, packing, or anything else involved.....

Your goal is to create the least amount of work possible, not consciously create the most....

ie: What is the starting/veg space? What has it been mapped to accommodate?, how many? what kind of containers? What benefits and pitfalls do they have? How many rounds will you do? What is your turnover for multiple rounds? What are the limits spots can accommodate in relation to rounds produced? How are supplies figured and allocated? Is that realistic? Where will you dry? How will you dry? How will it be trimmed? What will you do if volume exceeds your capabilities? What about maintenance (even no maintenance requires some) what is your availability?, etc...

(What if you should have problems that require extra attention?, and, how does that fit into your own availability?...etc, etc, etc....)

Of course, impossible for anything in life to anticipate every single scenario possible, but not out of the question to try and come close..

Planning is underrated and the majority of problems people have could (and should) have been addressed in planning stage......and, sometimes, arising out of methods used....etc..