[bobthegrower]

I'm running Earth Juice in coco,3rd week bloom

25ml/gal Grow (2-1-1)
15ml/gal Bloom (0-3-1)
10ml/gal catalyst
5ml\gal Molasses
0.25 teaspoon/gal Epsom salts

Ph entering Coco = 5.0
PPM = 900

Plus bat guano/earthworm castings in a sock for bacteria.

I usually put the solution into the beds @ 5.0 pH as the EJ nutes are very acidic and they start out at 4.0 climbing to 5.0 after 36 hours of aeration.

Plants were fine after initial problems with new coco having an alkaline bias.

Now the plants are starting to pale off from the bottom up.The whole fan leaves gradually pale off uniformly like an N def with brown patches on tips and some edges,not all the leaves though.It's only the plants right under the bulbs(1000w hps air cooled) that are showing the most paleness

I just did a soil test as prescribed.
the results were

Ph = 5.9
PPM = 300

I am assuming that I'm not using a strong enough solution and am getting K def.

Lighting is 3000w over 50 sq foot

Does this sound correct?

1st time using coco with 20 yrs experience of growing.

I used to use metanaturals but cant find it any more the bloom on that was 1-5-5 so had lots of K(I still have 2 liters left of that)

I've started to add some of the meta 1-5-5 @ 5ml/gal to try to correct the problem.

Any advise would be welcomed.

Thanks

Bob

[RogueDude]

Coco can be tricky especially if you are not directed in the right"right" direction in the beginning. I hope you can finish off with what you have, Earth Juice is NOT made for coco and should never be used, it sounds to me like your trying to grow in coco using soil techniques. This is wrong. I know a makeup that works every time, consistently with exceptional results. First off, use a clean coco coir fibre, like Canna or my fav is the B'cuzz brand, but the botanicare works well too, then mix it with pearlite, at 20%, Hydroton rock at 20% and 80% coco, then mix in the prescribed amount of "Rainbow blend" either Grow or Bloom depending on what your starting with, meaning if your in the veg cycle, use the grow ect. mix together well, then pack it down into the pots, not too much but enough to make sure it is all settled down into the pots, I use the 6 litre or 8 litre pots, square. 55 fit in a 4 x 8 drain table. Typically PH in coco should be 5.9 to 6.8 depending on what kind of nutrients your using, The best results can be guaranteed from using Supernatural brand nutes with additives from advanced nutes and hygrozyme and a few others. Heres the exact list guaranteed to work and give you the absolute best results, also you did not mention your enviroment which is as important as everything else. You need to have the humidity levels below 60% and the temp under 80 degrees F and the water temp below 70 as well if possible. My water temp is 62 due to placing the resevoir on concrete. Anyway heres the list of everything I use with unreal results:\


One bag/50L of coco mixes with 1/2 bag of Rainbow mix bloom or veg mixed with 10 to 20 litres of rock with 10-20 litres of pearl, mix very well together, homogonize as much as possible, you should be able to get like 15 x 6 litre pots or more out of each mix

Ok now nutrients and additives if available, please do not ever sibstitute other comparable products, as I have tried them all with less success.
In order of importance:
#1 HYGROZYME (NOT the crap advanced has, called Sensizyme" dont use that crap) Hygrozyme will turn all dead root matter into usable carbs and promote healthy rapid growth
#2 Supernatural Brand Product list:
a) Aqua BLOOM
b)Aqua GROW at 1 tsp per gallon of water, it says to use up to 1-1/2 tsp but that will be to strong after the other addidtives
c) Superthrive B-1 (liquid) this has all your oxygen and b-1 needs in one
d) Super Boost -Use this in the early flowering stages to promote the heavy abundant buds later on in the bloom cycle, this is also used during veg phas as well, you can use this WITH the Grow aqua just reduce the groq aqua by 1/2 tsp. Your target ppm is around 1200-yes 1200, it was not a mistake. I am assuming your enviroment is right and your using co2, otherwise, lower the ppms to under 1000
e) Supernatural Stay green- you dont HAVE to use this in the resevoir, but you should use this as a foliar spray all the way to bloom. It reduces stress and keeps everything green.
f) Rockwool soak and Root burst podwer for propagation of cuttings. I get a 99 to 100% success rate.
g) Supernatural Super Leach - 1-2 tsp per gallon water leach every week or 10 days.
H) Supernatural Bud Blaster- 1 tsp for every 5 gallons of water-added to existing nutrient Bloom Aqua

NON Supernatural additives-

#1 Grotek Pro Silica-1/2 tsp/Gallon makes everything drought resistant ect
#2 Liquid Carbo Load & Sweet Leaf from Advanced nutes (Also Sweet from Botanicare works too but not as good)
#3 H2O2 at ONE DROP PER GALLON Not ever more!! This is important as it will kill off your beneficials if you put in more. Always put in your h2o2 BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE, then wait 10 minutes or so, then add Hygrozyme at 10ml per gallon, then add the supernatural nutes then the carbo load/sweet leaf.
#4 Cha Ching-small amounts like 1 tbsp for every 5 gallon and can be used with the bud blaster and bloom nutes, just make sure your ppms arent over 1300 or 1400 if your using co2.
#5 I have been testing the Puple Maxx and Bush Master from Humboldt as well, also the VHO from Adnvanced with the Jumpstart in my cuttings.

With this lineup I get 45 day harvests at over and above 1/2 gram per watt of light average is about 5/8 of a gram per watt.

Im getting tired, I hope this helps

Peace

I am having the exact same issue. I have read and read these forums and all over the net. I can find no one that has a answer that works. I am using a modified Lucas. I am currently trying varied Ph levels to release the Ca and K as I have read that this helps in the uptake of Ca and K. Oh and before anyone says Canna ... We all can't afford every fad nute to come along. Average Joe's grow here. It's all elemental anyway.

[The Slickster]

Using Earth Juice and Bat Guano tea along with Earth castings in coco is going to lock out minerals and nutrients and turn the plant. Flush well and feed a Cal-Mag solution or such and then go with a balanced canna bio solution which is also organic. Do a search and you will see there are many such cases, and had the same problem myself as the guano and most foul smelling (Earth Juice) organic concentrates tend to upset the balance of the minerals and lock them in the coco itself. For now just feed the Meta-K as long as you flush and until you get a balanced organic solution if that is your preference. The Earth Worm Castings in themselves would not have been so bad used in moderation with a balanced diet and or more diversified medium for more raw organic tolerances. But the Canna Bio will work in straight coco if you are in to that sort of thing, I find it a bit on the moist side (not sunleaves bulkier-but then needs rinse). And there is nothing wrong with trying new things or diversifying your medium for optimal bacterial and biological stability and overall plant tolerance to raw organic feeds. Coco by itself with no perlite or anything is not an entirely stable substrate especially for organics when you do not have a complete diet such as Canna's line organic or not. Similarly using simple N-P-K will not supply the void coco with micronutrients that the plant will need and become deficient in. Earth Juice may work in regular soil mixes, however it does have the long term side effect of dropping PH over time and throwing off other elements as well as you said (4.0). So it would not be the best for coco unless only added sparingly along with a complete dietary formula meant for coco growing specifically if not simply a micro nutrient formula like Earth Juice Microblast. Canna's has the specific elements for coco, and that does have to do with the higher costs. Soil grows would be better if a balanced diet cannot be provided to coco bound plants. Simple NPK solutions and or guanos will lock coco up as has been the case.

I may be ignorant on how all this plays into coco. I have studied it some. I have varied results with my solution. I am not knocking Canna .. I just can't afford them and I also believe that there has to be a solution that works beyond the sales pitchs of the most popular nutes. To each their own of course. No offense intended to Canna groupies.

Mo

Earth Juice will work fine...you just need to dial it in. Yes coco specific nutes would make things a little easier....but you can dial in any nute line you want in coco. I've used in coco: EJ, PBP, Floranova, H&G, CNS17, urine...and more...they all work.

Are these plants with the paling leaves in flower? Is it happening to alot of leaves or just a few around the bottom area?

A pic or two would be great...but if not...oh well...we can still try.

Are you using tap water or purified water?

[bobthegrower]

A few more things..

Did another soil test this AM and the readings were

6.2 ph
300ppm

The formula I'm using is off the label recommendation.I suspected the K might be low with the formula but since coir is supposed to hold around 180 ppm of K I was not to bothered.

Working out the ratio from post #1 NPK works out to

1.25 - 2.53 - 1.25

there no macro or micro concentrations listed.

The epsom salts should cover the Mg and I'm told that there should easily be enough Ca in the EJ nutes.

Well you've chosen the right medium, coco is definitely the way to go. Let's figure out what's going on with your grow. Kinda hard to tell with the limited info but...

1. What kind of coco did you use and did you make sure that it was clear of excess salts by flushing the shit out of it?

Canna and B'cuzz are the only two suppliers I'm aware of that pre-treat for this and you can use their coco right out of the bag.

2. How many times a day are you watering?

Growing in coco requires watering at least once a day till you get a runoff of about 10%-20% runoff. This is kinda like a mini-flush every time you water and it helps keep it all in balance (pH, ec, etc.)

3. What size pots are your plants sitting in?

This, I'm sure you know due to your experience level, has a direct relationship to how many times a day you need to water. Smaller pots=more daily waterings and all that, hehe.

4. Is your nute formula correct?

Here's what 5mL of Canna A+B provides the plants with so we can see where you stand with what you're giving.

5mL of A+B = NPK 5-4-3

I don't have any experience with the nutes your feeding. I use Canna nutes and here's the VERY short lineup.

Coco A+B, PK 13/14, Cannazym, and Rhizotonic. Add to this the pH up and down I use and you've got a picture of my entire nute closet, lol. I know everybody thinks Canna is expensive but look at how much your using of the other product vs. how much I use of the Canna and see the difference.

BTW, HESI is a fine nute line and has a coco specific line as well as Canna.

Anyway, here's the rates I feed at.

Water = 50/50 tap/RO. Tap water supplies the micro nutes you need. If you're using straight RO, mix it with tap water to get what you need.

Veg stage - 14 days:
A+B 6mL/gal
pH 5.8

Flower - 80+ days in my case:
A+B 6mL/gal till 3rd week and then I dose with the PK.

3rd week (7 days only):
A - 6mL/gal
B - reduced to 3mL/gal
PK 13/14 2mL/gal

4th week:
Back to A+B at 6mL/gal.
No PK!

6th week:
Same as during week 3

Then about 4 weeks from harvest I started reducing the Nitrogen and increasing the P and K. Did this by cutting back on the A by 1mL/week and adding the PK back into the mix. I also reduced the B I was giving cause the PK will burn if you're not careful. Do not use at the rates suggested by Canna unless you like to hear a crunch when you touch the leaves, lmfao.

The above was a suggestion from gaius. He told me a notable grower told him at the 420 that the idea is to reduce the N by 25% a week during the last few weeks of flower while keeping the PK at the same level or even increasing it. I tried it and it worked for me. Got 763g harvest from my two plants and their genetics were shitty.

What you've got looks like a Nitrogen def. It may be getting locked out by a pH problem cause your sure giving it enough, lol. But you said your pH is 5.0 going in and that's way too low to start with. The coco will adjust to pH a little but these are the things it does in the background and I don't count on it to fix a problem I know I've got like feeding with a pH of 5.0 to begin with. Coco's gonna take care of subtle changes but not blatant errors in pH such as low pH of 5.0 going in.

Here's what I would do if I were you. I'd flush the hell out of the pots. If you're using 3 gal pots, carry them into the bath tub if you don't have them in trays and flush with 6-9 gals of plain water pH'd to 5.8. NO NUTES yet, hehe. Then feed immediately with nutes at normal rate. Water till runoff after that and things should stabilize. The damaged leaves will not recover as I'm sure you know but you should not have the prob again if pH is kept in the 5.8 range.

This is a quick stab at fixing the situation. Hope the suggestions help.



Peace, and good luck.

[bobthegrower]

Here's some more info Mojo.

As it's organic the Ph rises naturally in the bed.At the begining the Ph was way too high(8.0) So I put the EJ in neat at Ph 4.The bed balanced it out after a couple of weeks to the Soil test I did this AM which came out at 5.8-6.2.I've slowly been increasing the Ph of the input nute as the bed Ph came down.I'm now going to input the nutes into the bed at Ph 5.5.

Strain of Mj? Grapefruit
Hydroponic or soil? Coco
From seed or clone? clone
Age of plant in question? 6 weeks from rooted clone
What stage (Veg/Flower; how many days into)? Day 21 bloom
Medium (Soil, Rockwool, Hydroton etc.)? Coco
Container/Pot size? 80 gallon bed with 50 plants (4 per sq ft)
Have they been transplanted, if so how long ago? 6 weeks ago
If soil, composition ratios (peat moss, perilite, vermiculite etc.)? Pure coco with 4 inches of lava rock as drainage.Bed is one foot deep
If soil, was dolomite lime or powdered gypsum added at planting? No
Water runoff Ph or other soil ph test? Soil test Ph 5.8-6.2 @ 300ppm
Nutrients added? Earth juice Grow 25ml/gal, Bloom 15ml/gal,catalyst 10ml/gal,1/4 tspn Epsom salts/gal,5ml molasses/gal.
Ratios of nutrients (N% P% K%)? 1.25 - 2.53 - 1.25
Feeding schedule? nutes twice a day ,ph adjusted water only at weekends.
When were they last fed/watered?last night
How are you determining when to feed/water (weight, wilting, etc.)? Moisture meter
TDS/EC/PPM? PPM input is 900 on a calibrated Tri-meter
Tap/RO/Distilled water? Tap (Ph 7.0,70 ppm)
Ph before and after adding nutrients to the water?Before Ph 7,after ph 4,then bubbled up to ph 5
Is your Ph equipment properly calibrated?yes
Light intensity/Age of bulb/Wattage? 3000w HPS over 50 sq ft(60 w per sqft)
Distance to the canopy?18 inches
Temps at canopy?78
Temps at root zone or reservoir? 75
Day/Night temps (Min.-Max.)? Max 78 lights on ,Min 75 lights off
Current air flow (CFM)? Sealed room with CO2 @ 1000ppm Computerized
Is there air blowing directly onto plant? No
Using CO2?yes
Relative humidity?70
Growing technique (Scrog, Sog, Supercropping etc.)?SOG
Has plant recently been pruned, clones taken, fimmed or pinched? Trimmed from base up to fit canopy.
Pests?no
Chemicals used to irradicate? N/a
If so,When?

I am assuming it's not a strong enough solution and possible K deficiency.But I'm following the max label instruction.I'm from the "less is more" school of thought and did not want to increase nute strength until I sought out some advise.

DAMN, dude! Nice on the info, hehe. Love it.

I seriously think you're bumping up against a N def probably due to lockout. Flush, flush, flush, hehe. Follow with a feeding at slightly reduced nute rate. Maybe reduce by 25% and ease back up once you're sure everythings ok. I say this because our tendency is to add when we begin to have a problem and once our prob is fixed, we hit them with the nutes they were getting locked out of and it's at too high a level. Makes sense to me anyway.

In your situation, the above is where I would start. It's fixable.

Peace