Illegal search and seizure? - Security & Legal Issues - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums

06-09-2007, 06:13 PM

Last night my friend was driving home from my house after picking up a half o of some fire and was incidently pulled over by a cop who probable cause was that his car looked like another one found in robberies in the area. MY friend never consented to a search but they still brought as canine unit in which in turn found the half o. Right now he is charged with possesion of 19 grams (how lucky instead of 20g which is a felony).My question is how can he go about this. He is already going to fight the case because the cop not once had atleast SUFFICENT probable cause. ANy help would be wonderful.

HappyHemphog · 06-09-2007, 06:36 PM

Hate to say it but your buddy is fucked without a really good lawyer.

Cop will say he smelled it, called in dog. Perfectly legit in the eyes of the Judge. That doesn't make it true, but we all know the US Court system isn't about Truth.

Watersnake · 06-11-2007, 07:59 PM

Good Luck;
The cop will probably need to produce evidence that a similar car was indeed involved in recent mischief, plus, he should have specified what he was looking for. I don't know if is a legal search without those. You were apparently legally detained if he had probable cause to look for specific items. I don't know if "fruits of the poison tree" doctrine would hold up. Get a good lawyer, and I would not cop a plea if there were evidence of 4th amendment violation. Remember, the cop will promise the world, but only the judge has authority, (including excluding or admitting evidence).-Snake

DIGITALHIPPY · 06-11-2007, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyHemphog

....That doesn't make it true, but we all know the US Court system isn't about Truth.....

he who has the most money wins the case.
good luck. i spent 4k to 'get out' of my last case(read :beat)

Watersnake · 06-12-2007, 02:03 PM

My U.S. Code is not quite up to date, but the cops are still from what I have seen narrowly limited, even in a traffic stop. "Terry v. Ohio" allows pat-down frisks for weapons on suspicion that there is a weapon, which may be reasonable if the officer truly thought your friend was the robber, but was it on a pat-down search of his person?

Auto searches tend to be different, more iffy than home or personal searches.

Generally officers are limited to items in plain view in a car. Even the Renquist Court found in favor of a man who had a sawed off shotgun under his seat and excluded the evidence.
-Snake

bergerbuddy · 06-12-2007, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HappyHemphog

Hate to say it but your buddy is fucked without a really good lawyer.

Cop will say he smelled it, called in dog. Perfectly legit in the eyes of the Judge. That doesn't make it true, but we all know the US Court system isn't about Truth.

Sad but TRUE.... and I was raised to BELIEVE just the opposite, yet I grew up to SEE the truth.

Your friend is in a lot of trouble... some states protect privacy better than others.. i.e. some states are more restrictive than the federal law when it comes to police actions. States can protect our rights MORE but never less than what Federal law protects

Peace
BB

DickAnubis · 06-12-2007, 08:57 PM

Hmmmm? Quite a mess. Your friend is in big trouble. If he gets a good lawyer and I mean $$$$$$$$ good, he might not get railroaded.
It depends what state he was in since each state has its own criteria of penalty to amount seized and such.
The cop has the advantage but the right lawyer, Judge, timing combination could work in your friend's favor. Let's hope they don't rail him to give up his connect. But it's not an amount that would warrant such.

Oh whatever he does HE SHOULD NOT TRY TO FIGHT IT ON HIS OWN. Get him a lawyer otherwise he's a fish in the barrel.

PEACE

Watersnake · 06-13-2007, 12:25 AM

Everybody has at least one appeal from the trial court. Once it goes to appeal is when the evidential and procedural questions come into play. The court trial per se is not the fact, it is scrutinized. Possible nolo contendre with appeal could save some money.-Snake

northernlightss · 06-15-2007, 05:35 AM

I had the same thing happen to me down here in Fl, unfortunately they don't need a warrant to call in a k-9 unit, and once that dog alerts it becomes legal. His best bet is to get a lawyer. Cops will try all kinds of bullshit to get you to consent to a search, all the while preventing you from leaving the scene, so the dog has time to get there. He probably didn't have enough probable cause to force your friend to stay, but your friend probably didn't try to leave before the dog got there, and the cop certainly won't tell you that you are not under arrest and can leave. Once that dog gets there you're screwed. Down here in Fl, they can't hold you more than 15 min (or a reasonable time to issue a citation) if they don't have probable cause.

Watersnake · 06-15-2007, 12:52 PM

Too late now, but "Deer Musk" which hunters use on their clothing smells like deer urine, and apparently throws dogs off the trail if you spray the wheels and underside of the car (claim you must've hit a skunk or something), according to some sources. But if your friend repeatedly asks Mr. Law if he is under arrest or detention, and may he peaceably leave, there is a case United states V. $124,570 U.S. Currency, which does allude to a limit on reasonable time frame of seizure, including seizure of a person (i.e. arrest or detention) which hopefully the cops may have to answer to. Especially good since it was a higher court case, which takes prescidence over the trial courts. In any event, there are established prescidents which a good attorney may be able to research. Just a thought.....Snake

06-09-2007, 06:13 PM	#1
jiggerman78 Guest Posts: n/a	Illegal search and seizure? Last night my friend was driving home from my house after picking up a half o of some fire and was incidently pulled over by a cop who probable cause was that his car looked like another one found in robberies in the area. MY friend never consented to a search but they still brought as canine unit in which in turn found the half o. Right now he is charged with possesion of 19 grams (how lucky instead of 20g which is a felony).My question is how can he go about this. He is already going to fight the case because the cop not once had atleast SUFFICENT probable cause. ANy help would be wonderful.
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06-09-2007, 06:36 PM	#2
HappyHemphog Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In a field of hemp Posts: 482	Hate to say it but your buddy is fucked without a really good lawyer. Cop will say he smelled it, called in dog. Perfectly legit in the eyes of the Judge. That doesn't make it true, but we all know the US Court system isn't about Truth. __________________ A Walk Through Hempy's Garden Click on my Avatar for more information on Hempy's Garden and Step-by-Step Pictorials. And God said, "Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth,..." - Genesis 1:29 KJV From the garden to the table, from the table to the bowl, may it cleanse your mind, body and eternal soul.
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06-11-2007, 07:59 PM	#3
Watersnake Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 87	Good Luck; The cop will probably need to produce evidence that a similar car was indeed involved in recent mischief, plus, he should have specified what he was looking for. I don't know if is a legal search without those. You were apparently legally detained if he had probable cause to look for specific items. I don't know if "fruits of the poison tree" doctrine would hold up. Get a good lawyer, and I would not cop a plea if there were evidence of 4th amendment violation. Remember, the cop will promise the world, but only the judge has authority, (including excluding or admitting evidence).-Snake __________________ "It is a poor dog that is not worth the whistling." - Shakespeare
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06-12-2007, 02:03 PM	#5
Watersnake Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 87	My U.S. Code is not quite up to date, but the cops are still from what I have seen narrowly limited, even in a traffic stop. "Terry v. Ohio" allows pat-down frisks for weapons on suspicion that there is a weapon, which may be reasonable if the officer truly thought your friend was the robber, but was it on a pat-down search of his person? Auto searches tend to be different, more iffy than home or personal searches. Generally officers are limited to items in plain view in a car. Even the Renquist Court found in favor of a man who had a sawed off shotgun under his seat and excluded the evidence. -Snake __________________ "It is a poor dog that is not worth the whistling." - Shakespeare
	Quote

06-13-2007, 12:25 AM	#8
Watersnake Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 87	Everybody has at least one appeal from the trial court. Once it goes to appeal is when the evidential and procedural questions come into play. The court trial per se is not the fact, it is scrutinized. Possible nolo contendre with appeal could save some money.-Snake __________________ "It is a poor dog that is not worth the whistling." - Shakespeare
	Quote

06-12-2007, 08:57 PM	#7
DickAnubis Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Same as You Posts: 125	Hmmmm? Quite a mess. Your friend is in big trouble. If he gets a good lawyer and I mean $$$$$$$$ good, he might not get railroaded. It depends what state he was in since each state has its own criteria of penalty to amount seized and such. The cop has the advantage but the right lawyer, Judge, timing combination could work in your friend's favor. Let's hope they don't rail him to give up his connect. But it's not an amount that would warrant such. Oh whatever he does HE SHOULD NOT TRY TO FIGHT IT ON HIS OWN. Get him a lawyer otherwise he's a fish in the barrel. PEACE
	Quote

06-15-2007, 05:35 AM	#9
northernlightss Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 128	I had the same thing happen to me down here in Fl, unfortunately they don't need a warrant to call in a k-9 unit, and once that dog alerts it becomes legal. His best bet is to get a lawyer. Cops will try all kinds of bullshit to get you to consent to a search, all the while preventing you from leaving the scene, so the dog has time to get there. He probably didn't have enough probable cause to force your friend to stay, but your friend probably didn't try to leave before the dog got there, and the cop certainly won't tell you that you are not under arrest and can leave. Once that dog gets there you're screwed. Down here in Fl, they can't hold you more than 15 min (or a reasonable time to issue a citation) if they don't have probable cause.
	Quote

06-15-2007, 12:52 PM	#10
Watersnake Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 87	Beer nuts cost $1.25, but Deer Nuts are under a buck Too late now, but "Deer Musk" which hunters use on their clothing smells like deer urine, and apparently throws dogs off the trail if you spray the wheels and underside of the car (claim you must've hit a skunk or something), according to some sources. But if your friend repeatedly asks Mr. Law if he is under arrest or detention, and may he peaceably leave, there is a case United states V. $124,570 U.S. Currency, which does allude to a limit on reasonable time frame of seizure, including seizure of a person (i.e. arrest or detention) which hopefully the cops may have to answer to. Especially good since it was a higher court case, which takes prescidence over the trial courts. In any event, there are established prescidents which a good attorney may be able to research. Just a thought.....Snake __________________ "It is a poor dog that is not worth the whistling." - Shakespeare Last edited by Watersnake; 06-15-2007 at 12:59 PM.. Reason: Enlightenment
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