Great thread.

Bioponics is becoming more popular,more and more bottles for complete cycles,expensive though.
I believe Soma coined the phrase,and utilises it.


When a plant has been grown correctly,ie not overdosed,flused,etc,shoulnt the smoke be the same?

Is it karma giving it that special taste?




peace.

[Matt Rize]

Great thread. MISSING is soil-less organics, which is technically how most indoor growers operate.

"What does Organic Soil-less Mean? And Why Do We Use Molasses? Part 1
Molasses is commonly used by medical Cannabis gardeners, indoors and outside. The use of molasses is highly controversial on the ganja forums. We all agree that molasses is great for brewing ACTs and AACTs (Active Aerated Compost Teas). Molasses use, beyond food source for microbes in teas, is still a debate.

Old school outdoor organic folks grow in the ground, or in an aged and conditioned True Soil. These folk are wise, but often limited in regards to advanced indoor soil-less cultivation. The old school growers claim "molasses has no affect at all on yield or flavor". They may be correct with regard to their style of growing. We'll get to that soon.

Most of us, the medical Cannabis cultivators, cultivate our medicine indoors for various reasons. We use something that is called an "organic soil-less" media in our pots (containers).
To understand how molasses is used indoors we must understand a few things.

1) What is a "soil-less" media?
2) Why is everyone using soil-less instead of soil?
3) And how does soil-less media affect beneficial soil life and the soil-food-web (organics)?
then...
4) What is molasses?
5) What are root exudates?
6) What does molasses do in a soil-less media?
7) Possible downside to using molasses...?
8) Do you use molasses during the flush?

1) What is an Organic Soil-less media:


Growing plants in containers without soil can be split into two categories.

A) True Hydroponics, aka liquid culture: A nutrient solution is recirculated with food (usually synthetic) and this feeds the roots to make our precious flowers.
B) True Soil-less, aka aggregate culture : A nutrient solution is supplied to plants by watering through the media, and either drained-to-waste, or reused.


Soil-less grow media has often been called hydroponics. But that is not exactly correct. Nutri-culture has been suggested to be a more accurate term for various forms of soil-less growing. And soil-less growing itself is separated into: Inorganic Media and Organic Media. Inorganic Media is also farther separated into Natural Media and Synthetic Media.


THE MEDIAS EXPLAINED:


True Hydroponics: circulating solutions, aeroponics, static solutions


Aggregate System -> Inorganic Media (Hydroponics) -> Natural Media: sand, gravel, rockwool, perlite, vermiculite, pumice, expanded clay.

Aggregate System -> Inorganic Media (Hydroponics) -> Synthetic Media: oasis, hydrogel, foam mats (PET) and (PUR)

Aggregate System -> Organic Media: Peat, Sawdust, Bark, Cocofiber (the non-soil dirts).

So I am growing in an Organic Media, mostly peat, coco, and bark. But the majority of indoor growers are using perlite, which would technically make that media a combination of soil-less organic media and soil-less inorganic natural media. BOOM."

[cyat]

P4P,
I agree.Ive done both and feel that it comes down to feeding plants food with out too much heavy metals ,like cadmium, arsenic, etc. , also synthetic chelates if possible.That said organics tend to have more heavy metal (i.e. guano) than clean food grade or pharma grade minerals.I think minerals or minerals and some organics produce better medicine than straight organic.

[dmt]

taste and smell are second to none in organics, especially organic hydro, d

You know.........I`ve got a GrowBro on the left coast that`s been perfecting his soil blend and organic amendments for yrs , and he just surpassed 3 lbs per 1KW running Giesel with the folks at the Clubs beggin him for all he can produce..........Harborside being the main source wantin his goods........

And I can see this in the highly competetive market in Cali , where top shelf shit shines through when there`s gozillions of product to pick from with a med scrip card.......but.......

There is no difference in nutrient uptake from organics or hydroponics as far as the plants are concerned from a food standpoint......only ph parameters that allow different nutrients to be used at different ph levels.....running hydro that is.......

My buddy`s a fukin mad scientist and the ONLY grower I`ve ever seen get well over 2 lbs per light with organics , much less 3........on a production/rotation basis with minimum veg constraints , that is........

I used GH 3 part for 15 yrs plus in lower concentrations with all but no additives , and instead of a flush in late flower , I allowed my R/O tanks on float valves to top off my rez`s dwindling ppm`s down to damn near nothing by harvey , instead of depriving em of essential micro`s and starvin em causin the plants to cannabalize themselves for the survival syndrome just for so-called increased flavor/smell/white-ash ?......

Never had a sparkly , overfed black ash joint that wouldn`t burn in my life that I grew........with GH 3 part and proper dry/curing......

Peace......DHF.......... .

[mad librettist]

Originally Posted by Grasso

It is like in sports; when the muscles and organs start to produce lactic acid then the pain starts and you should stop and take a rest.

we've known for years now that this is patently false. lactic acid is a fuel, not a waste product.

[mad librettist]

no difference between organic and chem? plants disagree.

most plants prefer nitrate or ammonium. annuals tend to prefer nitrate, and are more susceptible to health issues when given mostly ammonium.

so obviously a system in which the plant can signal it wants the ammoniacal N converted to nitrate is going to be very different from a system in which the decision is made for the plant.

I find plants receiving the right N are more resistant to stressors. this is true throughout land living branch of the plant kingdom, except riparian plants, which have a plant version of a liver and can handle anaerobic conditions.

re: flushing. practically, it's a good idea. but the theory behind it is absolute bunk. when a plant is fed water only, the roots don't start getting rid of nutes. in fact, the opposite happens. rather than discard nutes, the plant moves the ones it can to new growth. these are nutes that are mobile within the plant. the only nutes you can keep out of the buds are the immobile nutes.

mobile nutes include N. so when your leaves go yellow, it's because all that N is being relocated to new growth, AKA the bud sites.

great stuff very resourceful thanks..

[pray4pistils]

Jeesh, where to begin (sigh) K, first of all a buddy of mine pointed me to this. At first I said "It's literally a year later. Why bother?" But, then I decided that the challenges are too much fun not to address. The clarifications should benefit noobs, too.

Originally Posted by 311;3561:510

Hey, I know this is an old thread, but dude...

Aha, we actually CAN agree on something. Progress.

Before u go giving people advice saying other advice is wrong, make sure u got ur advice right.

I grow using potting soil,and Hydroponically I use Coco or Hydroton. Honestly mixing the 2 Doesn't make sense to me, BUT!!!!! With that being said............ Does that mean because I wouldn't do it it's not possible. According to u it CAN'T BE DONE! At least ur so so rude comment makes everyone to probably believe wat I believe.

Rude comments? What I did was critique the thread's premise and some of the technical points made. I offered supporting perspective to justify the objections. Asserting of truth is my aim and I do it confidently.

Secondly, most any non-toxic grow media can be used. Some are reasonable performers. Others are not. There are media that *far* exceed saturated potting soil with respects to oxygen and nutrient availability in hydroponics. Thus, my objection is on relative terms. -not whether or not it is *possible* at all but whether it's worthwhile.

So without further ado. I have to say, I have seen quite a FEW successful grows, with potting soil as the media, in different hydroponic systems. In Top Drip, and wat I thought would for sure be a disaster, but he pulled it off. ARE U READY?????? DRUM ROLL PLEASE!!!!!! A DWC with potting soil as the MEDIUM!

In DWC the water itself is the medium. Furthermore, there is no way for a root ball to be happy when submerged in thick mud. If only the bottom of that potting soil barely touches water bubbling beneath, then *that* makes sense. I've fed the top organically and the bottom with chem in that arrangement. Purists be damned. Just the same, only the bottom section was/would be DWC "hydro".

Here is a link to a page telling u how to use pooting soil as a beginner hydroponic.

You've GOT to be kidding. That's not hydro. That's just a soilless grow medium. It's what I use now in containers both indoors and outdoors. By technique, it's basically enhanced soil growing and not hydroponic in the slightest.

Plants grow in nursery pots and can be watered by hand, eliminating the need for pumps, timers, and water systems."

Yes? That's called watering flower pots. LOL! Is that supposed to be some new technique or something? Weeeeeee... You puttin' me on??? Fer rilz, y0?

NOW HOLD ON!!!!! Let me keep explaining some other things before u get irrational, and upset cause ur being corrected

I'm barely able to contain myself.

I want u to FULLY understand wat Hydroponics actually is.

We're talkin about good ol potting soil, which can be soilless.

I use a 100% Complete Organic OMRI Listed Potting Soil. The kicker is this..... THERE's NO fertilizer in it!!!! So I feed it every day, and there nutes in my water(not orgainc) Isnt that Hydroponic??????

Uh, no. That is absolutely NOT hydroponic. That's hand watered chem growing in soilless mix recognized to be organic. OMRI ratings are largely ridiculous to begin with and then you "ruin" it from there. :p

But regardless , we feed our plants Hydroponic Nutes with every watering(which at 1 point is everyday),and the occassional flush(using clearex), with great success.

Yes, the term "hydroponic nutes" is being used to describe synthetic or mined minteral fertilizers formulated for hydroponic use. You could pour the stuff out in a cornfield and feed the plants. That wouldn't make it "hydro" would it?

And also, u just kinda seemed to be talkin down to everyone.

No, only you right now. Actually, I'm not speaking down to you. I can disagree politely and respectfully. However, I will also call b.s. when I see it. This is one of those times.

SO when I read the sorta ignorant info in ur last post, I had to correct u.

lol

NOT CAUSE I THINK URE WRONG. BE+CAUSE WIKIPEDIA SAYS SO!

"Bam! Wikipedia says so! So there!" (lol)

I hope I don't offend or start a war in here... I love Organic ferts, and Hydro systems. Haven't crossed the 2 together yet, but that was my purpose here today, until I read a rude post. SO I apologize to everyone, if I seem to be the wrong 1. Peace to all. 3-11, 3-3-11!

I doubt anybody's getting too worked up about this, dude. Also, as I said before I've actually mixed the two. It can deliver optimal results when done optimally.

Happy Gardening,

[ozman]

Well Im still confused,I would like to try so called organic in a dwc.Ive done the dwc with gh 3 part and had great success.My sister says that she prefers organic,so ive been trying to figure out if "organic"is worth the trouble and if I can do it with dwc or do I need to find another way.I dont guess ive ever really smoked any truly organic smoke.Ive always enjoyed my own results,never had anybody complain unless it was because it was to much for them.Nobody has ever complained of the taste or of the way it burned.Ive never had my smoke taste like chemicals,and it has always burned well.
So Im still in the dark,altho I read that floranova would be better then pure chemical and Ive often thought about trying it as well.I do like the gh 3 part tho,never had any trouble with ph or over/under feeding,always use pure RO water tho.
So I guess the next change will be to try flora nova before I get to involved in the organic dispute.I am a fan of flushing the last 2 weeks,maybe that is the difference for me.
If anybody knows of a thread for DWC with organics Im open to suggestions and help.
But all in all a decent read.