[redbone]

Please help: Looks like I'm gonna kill these coochies! Just started screwing around with bubblers. Planted 4 1 inch tall seedlings in clay pebbles in home made 5 gallon bubbler. Started them in rockwool but I removed it when I put them in the bubbler. I'm using 2 bubble wands and there are lots of little bubbles so I don't think the unit is at fault.
Problem is all 4 plants have brown leaves, one of them has leaves that are curled under. Nutrient level is 1/3 of recommeded. (My PPM meter is broke so I had to guess). Water level is 1/4 inch below bottom of pots. (I got some root rot so I lowered it). Light level is not great (40 watts).
So what do you think? Is the light level too low? How 'bout the nutrient level? Are they too young to go in the bubbler? What should the water level be? Is it OK that the roots don't hang out of the pot yet? Huh? What!
If you know of any good internet articles on the subject please hook me up.
Red

You might check your PH level also. I made a setup like yours and my PH would go all over the place. I couldn't stabilize it for more then two days. You might want to also check the PH and see if that might be a problem. If your having problems with the bubbler, you might want to convert it to a single setup like HOG's buckets. Simple ebb&flo, alot less problems then a bubbler. That's just my opion
Good luck

[amsterdame]

and when you set new plants up and the roots are not yet hanging out of the net cups, you need to keep the water level up, high enough so that the bottom inch of the net cup is submerged. Popping bubbles from the bubblers generally won't do it. I hear you've got a root rot problem, but if the plants roots aren't getting any solution directly, that's probably adding to your woes.

In the future, I wouldn't remove the rockwool either. Too easy to damage the tender roots. Put the whole cube into the net pot next time and surround with growing medium.

Good luck!

Peace~

[Hooked-On-Grown]

hey redbone....
I would say it is a lack of light problem. I just recently went through a hurricane and had a 48 hour blackout. All my seedlings reacted like what you desribed. Browning leaves.......turning crisp eventually. I wanted to put them out in the sun but had 30 mph constant winds. Go and buy a 4' shop light for $10 and one warm and one cool Floro lights....about $2 each. For 4!5 bucks you can put them under a double floro shop light and have 80 watts. I grow my seeds and fresh rooted clones under floros with great results.

[redbone]

Thanks y'all: I think it is a combination of poor lighting and nutrient level. I gonna make the adjustment.
Amsterdame: Since you do bubblers too. When is the best time to put a seedling in the bubbler. Can you start seeds in them? Or is ot best to wait until they establish roots. I just germinated 5 more in case I lose these and wated to know how to proceed.
Redbone

[BuzzBob]

Hey Redbone! --

Anutter Bubbler guy here... Though not a lot of experience as yet.

I have a couple of bagseed plants going in a bubblers { link to the grow thread is in my sig below } that I started from seed. I germed in paper towels, and placed 'em into 1.5" Rockwool cubes when they still had very small tap roots. I kept 'em under a humidity dome until roots were showing through the bottom of the cubes. I then placed them {in their cubes} into their bubbler buckets with 6" NetPots, using red lava rock as my medium.

I set the water/nute mix so the NetPots were slightly submerged, and so the bubbling water would splash into the lava rock, just dampening the bottom of the Rockwool cube.

I also added Super Thrive {Vitamin B1} to the mix to stimulate root growth. Aside from that, I kept the mix very low to start; probably around 100 to 150ppm @ .05.

As HOG suggests, I used {and still am} 4' Shop Lights for lighting. Though I went the extra few $$$ for Full Spectrum tubes. {About $6 each I believe, but well worth it!} If you go the Shop Light route, you can keep the lights virtually on top on the plants. I am actually now letting my plants grow up around the tubes a little before raising the lights to the next level...

It took a couple of weeks before roots penetrated the bottom of the pots. Once the roots were out the bottom of the pots, I dropped the water/nute level to 1/2" to 3/4" below the pot, with the bubbling spray splashing the pot's bottom.


Hope that helps some!

-BuzzBob

[amsterdame]

Hi redbone,

While some germ seeds in paper towels, I sow them directly into starter plugs that Sunleaves puts out. These plugs then get inserted in a styrofoam seed starting tray that floats atop of an inch or so of distilled or filtered water. Then I put a dome over to keep the humdity up till the little ones come up.

Once they have a few roots protuding from the plug and about 3 sets of leaves, I transplant into a 3" net cup by inserting the starter plug into the cup and surrounding it with grow medium, like clay pebbles. I only put a small amount of medium on the bottom of the net pot so roots can reach the solution more easily and quickly.

You could also probably plant the plug directly into 5.5" net cups as well, but an intermediate step of smaller cups seems to work better, as the larger cups are also taller cups.

For the small net cups I created a multiple site system consisting of one 10 gallon container with 8 3" holes and two 12 inch air stones. The net cups with the young plants go into this unit for a few weeks.

When the plants are about a foot tall I transplant into the final bubbler, a 5 gallon bucket, by putting the whole plant including the 3" net cup into the 5.5" cup. Surround with growing medium and away you go. I would discourage the idea of removing the plant from the small cup because the roots are too delicate to untangle. Alternatively, you can try to bring a plant to maturity in a small net cup, but you'll definitely run the risk of the whole plant tipping over since the small cup doesn't offer enough area stability to keep the plant erect. You'd have to tie or secure it in some way to be safe.

If you do use the larger net cups, be sure to water the seedlings from the top for several days until you see the roots protruding from the net cup into the solution. Once you see that, you're golden.

If you still have small rockwool cubes that'll fit easily into the net cups, you can go with these as well instead of the starter plugs I use.

Feel free to ask more, or along the way if you need to. Others may be able to offer tips as well. Good that you started germing some other seeds... I think Hooked was right too in that you need some more wattage going on.

Peace and good growing vibes~

:p

[amsterdame]

hehee, hey there, BuzzBob, we posted at the same time! Just want to let ya know I wasn't dissing you or your paper towel method when I started out by saying "some germ seeds in paper towels but...."

Just coincidence man!

[redbone]

Yo Buzz: I've been keeping up with your posts and find them quite interesting. I notice that you have your bubblers hooked up to a central reservior and I was wondering what the advantage of that is, other than not having to change the water on eachone separately. Also, how do you get the water to circulate back into the reservoir? Does the pump do that or are some of the buckets elevated?
Amsterdame: When would you suggest I go to higher wattage? I have a 400 Watt halide that I used to use for vegging but from what I read moet people leave that alone. Can you veg under flouros wattage right up to when you start flowering?The Europeans definately use less light than we do.

[BuzzBob]

Hey Redbone!

Ayuh... I am running, at present, with a Controller Bucket. It really comes in handy for maintenance, since you can empty/refill the entire system from that one bucket easily without having to disturb the plants...

If/when I ever get the Float Valves, I will also hook the Controller up to the larger Res, and then the whole system's water/nute level is maintained at a constant level.

One thing I am still struggling to get right is recirculation... IMHO, with a Bucket DWC System, recirculation is necessary. Else the buckets throughout the system can get out of whack and have drastically varying ppm and pH.

On my Bagseed grow, I have "things" kinda screwy, but its working... I merely have the buckets linked in series. In other words, a line from the Controller goes to the first bucket of the system. Then a line from that bucket loops to the next bucket, and so on...

For recirculation on this system I presently have a small 70 gph {supposedly!} in the Controller pumping water/nutes into the last bucket of the series. Gravity then does the rest to push the ever-rising mix back up the line to the Controller...

Downsides to this setup are its is relatively slow in filling and emptying as all the water/nutes have to travel through each bucket before getting to/from the Controller. Also, recirculation cannot be into each bucket directly, as the further you get from the Controller, the higher the mix level in the buckets becomes... Interesting how it all flows, really! {I didn't major in Hydro Engineering, and have made a few mistakes along the way...}


On my new grow {the AKs}, I have a separate line running to each bucket from the Controller. Eventually, when I get recirculation going in this system, it will be by a Drip System, with a drop line running into each bucket, directly off the Controller. This will get the mix routed around the system much more quickly! Also, with the separate lines running to each bucket, the system empties and refills very quickly, as compared to the BS DWC System...


You asked about elevating buckets to recirculate... Elevating a Grow Bucket in the system actually result in lowering the water level. Gravity, don't ya know... With my Bagseeds, due to my basement floor being so unlevel, I actually have an added board under the last bucket in the series in order to get the water level under its NetPot.


Anyway... I tended to babble some. But I hope that helps!

-BuzzBob