[Elephant Man]

I'll tell you why I am attracted to trying this method, many well thought out reasons actually mostly involving my climate:

I live in the desert...ridiculous temps, terminally low humidity.
Cloning here sux...I can, and do it, but it sux...not to mention the boring monotony of clones...fuggin' little tools to me, I like the variability of seed.
Summer is impossible to grow efficiently for me, 100+ for over a month straight at times...I don't even want to have moms in August, and no I will not pay for lights and AC, electricity is very expensive here.
I don't need alot of smoke, but I am very interested in many strains.
I enjoy sativas...growing them, psychoactive highs...a few may only be possible indoor using this method, I already grew an Oaxacan cross that tripled in flower. Not ready to deal with trimming another 7 footer at this time.
I like breeding and have already been making seed...not new to me.
I like soilbeds and the idea of germing in one and growing perpetual gets me excited, with no transplants either.
I get to put more lights in flower with no veg...always a good thing.
Basically, in summer, I can pollinate a few girls and harvest...compost over summer and start over...no moms to deal with, possibly get 3 or 4 runs in.

Conclusion I have come up with anyway for what it is worth. Too stubborn to focus on one strain, or let one go. I'll let you guys no how it goes.

[muddy waters]

boys will be boys ey?

the crux of the issue if i understand motaco correctly is the inherent variation of propagating by seed. i assume he's implying that even the stablest IBLs will begin to degenerate into less appealing cultivars after many generations due to lack of sufficient plant numbers for proper selection.

if that is the case, then the "history lesson" might just be valid in my opinion. i have not bred successive generations of plants using this method so i have no idea really. but i was imagining that if males were not all culled (which means decreasing the space available to females), some breeding and selection could be done, selecting for THC and characteristics that benefit this growing style.

for me, piggybacking a little on what elephant man says, with the cost of the additional electricity and difficulty of cloning (due to tropical airborne fungi), and added to that a limited space and the need for a quick turnover, this method is obviously the way to go. 5 or 6 runs from now i might have a different verdict, i have no problem with that. but right now, even with motaco's warning, this makes most sense.

[Elephant Man]

Good point on the backcrossing MW, I have over 2 dozen strains to start with...muwahahaha...another reason not to veg LOL. Good to have freinds that seed too.

[chronic50s]

Originally Posted by Haggis123

That's what I been saying an' all.
We are just doing it for a giggle and to find which are good and which are not.
Along with getting more peep's to give it a go if they got a few spare beans.

We ain't trying to get ourselves on the front cover of High-Times or nothing....lol.

AMEN BROTHA!

[motaco]

I already did put the list of strains that did decent. it was just that short a list lol. as far as one gram wonders, most of them are really more like 4-5g wonders. and the question is why have 4-5g wonders when you could've filled the same space with a 25gram cola.

yeah Hal I get the point too, you saw a thread at OG,and got a WHOPPING two grows under your belt, and due to it called me a bullshitter and a bad grower. guess you want call bluff eh?


anyway as long as you understand this isn't going to get you on the cover of high times. I'm just worried about more posts like lofty saying "I'm going to change my whole room around now for this"

based on not much actual experience. If you wanna do it for fun of experiment go for it, but that is not the impression I took. I read it as people thought they were gonna beat the GE calculator with this old idea.

and believe me Hal I don't wanna type that much either but when newbs call you a bullshitter and a bad grower and spread misinformations sometimes it takes alot of typing to correct it ya know? its a real PITA actually

the problem is, as you'll see, is where do all the beans come from. the second problem is you'll be limited to strains that perform straight from 12/12. which there won't be that many.

you'll see. sometimes you just gotta learn shit for yourself I guess.

boys, i'll say it again: put your GE where your mouth is.

why this incessant pecking just to establish a pecking order? a single number is all it takes for christ sake. hell, post your data and i'll do the math for you.

[kooki]

Ive tended to grow mainly indica varieties myself.. and having tried 12/12 with a few of those varieties( granted not many strains) and ive found that 12/12 really isnt for me and my set up and the indica varieties ive tried.. they have such a shorter flowering period anyhow that taking off a couple of weeks veg time, by placing straight into 12/12 just isnt worth the end bud weight, ive learnt by my own experience and will stick by it, for the indica i grow i veg for at least 4 weeks to set the plant up to produce a good amount of budsites, and then let it flower.. using 12/12 u still add i seemed to notice 2 to 3 weeks to the length of its flowering so u only really save a couple of weeks time, for 1/4 the end bud amount(and i weighed the ones i tried verse a 4 week veg comparison) granted i use cfl lights and have to lst to benefit fully.. i lst both when i tried 12/12 from seed, it doesnt set up the same amount of budsites that uget from the 4 week veg plant with 12/12 plant i cld contain the canopy well inside a 10inch by 10 inch pot in fact wasting some horizontal space, with a 4 week vegged plant it will overspill the sides of the pot,easily making a 16 by 16 square canopy and trust me that really does mean 4 times the end weight in buds.( for me fewer plants fillin my space properly is better than more plants not filling it properly) and for two or three more weeks veg ? considering a 7 to 8 week flower period? ends up at most about 13 weeks instead of 10 , not a great saving of time for bud amount considering the way I grow. sure bigger lights sog style people may get diff results to me, so environment is prob a consideration , but i know growers who've been growing for decades.. none use this method for Sogging plants.. none use it full stop lol , and they are cash croppers.
Now i have very limited experience growing mainly sativa types.. motaco has said several times these are more suitable.. yet people keep hitting on him with negativity when he has clearly stated that. In fact i have seen several seed vendors state under some sativa varieties to start flower after a weeks veg, so the merits for those plants i cant personally talk about, but for lst methods with mainly indica varieties i really dont see the point in losing bud.. just my opinion tho.

[Lofty]

I'm just worried about more posts like lofty saying "I'm going to change my whole room around now for this"

[/quote]

i shud really clarify a bit, i'm in a loft space and its basically a rectangle at the floor 8x6 feet and 30" high, then the slope of the roof starts for about 40" to the peak. at the moment i hav 2 600w hps in the top peak with 4 biggish plants under, i'm using about 5x5 feet of that space in the middle and the space around the outside of them is not used.

i hav been reading about scrog (wat does it mean?) and thinking if i learn about it i cud grow mor shorter plants from edge to edge with 4x600w in a square. this wud b far mor efficient.

wen i read Hals thread on this and saw atmospheres input i thought it wud be a cud method for my triangular space.

if it doesnt work i'll just clone and the set up can stay the same for sea of green.

if u work out wat i'm getting in that space and the time SatGhost wud b slapping me around the head calling me an idiot (and quite rightly), i've been stuck with how i grow for years, coz its all i've known, wen i started on icm it opened my eyes to wat else is possible, thank u all.

motaco has been a good input in parts coz now i'm thinking mor towards sats, i've got bogs nycd and i'll get som other sat beans.

i'm going into this with my eyes open and am prepared for good or bad, i will in now way ever blame Hal, there is evidance this can work, if i cant make it work doesnt mean it cant, just i cant.

another reason i'd like to do it is becoz i've got the borg and growing from seed wud giv me a better chance to shift them for good.

anyway thats my rant, did i qualify in pissing comp or r motaco and Hal still in the lead lol

[kooki]

Scrog means screen of green( usually a square screen with individual square sections to weave or tie stems to , to maintain an even canopy) so a short in height plant with a wide even canopy as opposed to Sog wich is sea of green( plants grown for single cola using density of plants in the space)

[Lofty]

cheers kooki, looks like i'll b changing my set up and using the wasted space