[asa42]

i read that using epsom salt is not recomended w/ coco, does it have to do w/ salt build up?
also, is there any other way to add magnesium beside epsom or ferts?

using adecuate coco nutes - the mag factor becomes less of a trouble.

if u add magnesium chelates - they will be rapidly accesible also in coco - and not become much of a problem.

i usually use a magnesium/iron chelate - if that problem turns up.

peace

[-VT-]

Esalts wash Ca from the mix....and that's not good. I have used esalts succesfully with hard water before (with enzymes). If you don't have enzymes, flush every week with water

Best thing to do is what Bonecarver suggests....if you're adding esalts...something's wrong....

I used esalts to offset Ca in hardwater (I wanted some Ca flushed from the mix)....with low TDS water I ended up just chopping a couple plants they were so screwed up from adding esalts

[Daleykid]

Hello all

Originally Posted by bonecarver_OG

the hydroton works well in the botom - also does broken ceramic pieces and even washed gravel.

many times i break some cheap old pots to put in the bottom before i put the coco in.

According to THIS university fact sheet adding pebbles/gravel to pots to ensure drainage is a growing myth and could even be considered bad practice.

"The idea still persists that drainage from containers can be improved by adding a layer of coarse material, such as gravel, to the bottom of the container. In reality, this makes matters worse because the saturation layer is simply moved up, reducing the unsaturated portion of the container"

well - in coco it just doesnt aply

still i just do it in really big pots and it does work well.

got to be for the coco

peace

[Daleykid]

I think it's a leftover relic from using terracotta pots which tended to have just one central drainage hole It's average particle size that's the key to good drainage. I use quality bagged coco (Canna or H&G) and used to cut with a little Perlite, now I don't even bother with that.

in small and normal sized pots i dont bother with it - only in really huge pots (40 liters etc = 10 gallon) where the weigth of the coco makes it get a bit compressed in the botom of the pots - thus i ad big chunks of something to give more surface area for drainage - than only the drainage holes them self.

make the math - instead of having x number of holes with a limited diameter with quite limited surface area for the flow of water - against having the whole botom part of the pot as the drainage holes themself.

more than help drainage - this really does add to the amount of air in the root zone - since there is a lot of flow going on.

cutting edge coco cultivating technology involve slabs with a botom layer of more coarse fiber for added drainage.

remember hydroculture is not the same as soil culture where only limited amounts of water is used in most cases.

hehe - the link is about soil growing - explains it. soil is not like coco..

what that test is really saying is that soil gets compacted at the bottom part - and adding "gravel" just moves the compacted and drenched soil up a bit.

exactly for that - i dont use gravel. since the particle size is not to my likeing. ASMOF i try to make sure there is NOT a layering thing going on (since that just presses the coco flat against it - just like what we are trying to avoid) - rather mix the chunks into the bottom part gradually - having a higher concentracion of it in the botom and mixing it up with the coco a bit the first 4-5 inches of the HUGE pots. its more complicated to explain than it really is to do.

but only bother with really BIG pots.

please check back to page one and check the only "DONT" in red

but its true normal sized pots (up to 12 liter - 3 gallons) are completelly ok with out it - as long as the pots have ok drain holes

in small pots its a loss of rootspace really most of all. since the hydroton doesnt suck up nute-water as the coco does the roots touching the hydroton gets burnt when the hydroton gets dry (it dries much quicker than coco) and get damaged.

id agree on it beeing bad practise in that case too

peace

[gaiusmarius]

very interesting post bonecarver. very true about the big pots and coco compression.
about the hydro ton at the bottom, doesn't the coco make its way into the hydro ton layer? surrounding the balls with coco? i have been thinking about a layer of hydro ton under my slabs, for the roots that grow under the slabs into the table rills. but i guess it's not the right thing to use? because it's very true that it drys much quicker then coco.

why not just throw some loose coco on the trays?
with a felt cloth underneath to make sure it doesnt get into the filter etc?

also Vermiculite should work well
- i before have put clones in mini pots on top of both coco layers or vermiculite to make sure the roots get humidity and air while they are waiting for transplant to bigger pots. it works well - only drawback is i had to be very carefull transplanting not to damage the roots. since they seem to spread out really well

if u put in the hydroton or chunks of "x" (i use highdensity iso-pore) in the botom and carefully put the coco on top - it does not get mixed really - it stays as an separate layer. only if u stir it it will get into the hydroton.

allways a small bit will find its way into the hydroton - but once the coco is in the pot and etc - it doesnt "leech" into the hydroton at all. when watering it doesnt seem to create ever a flow strong enough to pull the coco with it. also the botom layer of coco is the part where most of the roots are - and they also help to keep it all nice and tidy in their place

so really using big pots i start with putting a good layer - about 2 inches minimum of chunky drainage material - after that i start mixing the dranaige material with the coco in my hands before i put it in the pot - using a higher amount of coco for every few handfulls.

i got to say i find the isopore chunks being a good manner to aireate the botom of the pots - but it also dries out quick.

the best i think would be really coarse chunks of coco in the bottom - or similar..

but im yet to find coco coarse enough.

peace

[Daleykid]

Originally Posted by bonecarver_OG

please check back to page one and check the only "DONT" in red

I have tried to stress this on other forums as often as possible.

I still think that paper makes some good points though IME coco is extremely difficult to overwater, I've tried but it just runs out the bottom of the pots.

BTW I handwater 4Ltr rose pots pure coco once daily. Done it this way for 5 years and getting fed up with it now. Might set up a drip system or go back to NFT.