BuzzBob's First DWC Adventure - Indoor Grows - Hydro - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums

BuzzBob · 07-26-2004, 02:31 AM

Please tell me where I've made mistakes, and help to correct and move on...

First, the seeds I am growing out are bagseed at present until I work out the kinks and get past some learning mistakes.

On 7/11 I started germing 12 seeds in distilled water with just a touch of Superthrive. Germ rate was good for the unknown nature of the seeds; 8/12.

On 7/13, with a slight tail, I placed the seeds into Rockwool cubes soaked in distilled water, again with a touch of Superthrive, and placed into a makeshift {upside down Tupperware} humidity dome. Within just a couple days, several were breaking the surface.

On 7/16 the tap roots of several of the seedlings had reached the bottom of the Rockwool cubes. By the next day, the tapers were compressing against the floor of the dome. So I opted to promote the best looking 4.

The system I have set up is a basic four bucket {5 gals/ea} dwc, with a controller bucket {no float valve as yet} and an 18 gallon res. All five of the buckets have been made lightproof by wrapping them in 6 mil black plastic. Each of the growing buckets has a 1" airstone.

Today, 7/25, the seedlings are but approximately 1.5" in height. Each is starting to show their second set of "real" leaves. {Discounting the cotyledons} The breadth of he first primary leaves is but approximately 1". Pretty weak looking, really!

I believe I have had a few issues over the last two weeks, including high pH for a couple of days until I obtained a meter, a couple of temperature spikes into the 90s (F), and possibly some light burning with some pretty warm CFLs I was using until I recently set up a pair of shop light fluoros with full spectrum tubes. As a result of these incidences, all four plants show some browning on the cotyledons and the initial primaries. The new growth {second set of leaves} is looking much more healthy at present!

So... That gets us up to date... Have I made any serious mistakes so far? If so, please let me know what, and what I should've done instead...

Moving on... Since I am approaching two weeks, I believe I should start to introduce nutes soon; Correct? What a scary thought! Babies' first feeding... I have GH 3 Part, but am all but clueless on how to mix these, in what quantities, and how best to feed them into the system. I have read a lot, but it can be so cornfusing to someone who's never been through it.

Questions:
* Do I mix the nutes, and merely add them to the controller bucket and let it "trickle" into the system?

* To do this, I would have to push the controller's contents back up to the res first; Right?

* Or do I mix up a complete replacement set of water/nutes, and empty/refill the system with the new stuff?

Please... Feel free to throw in any additional advice you may have for a First Time Grower!

Much Grass! {My very poor Spanish for Many Thanx!}

-BuzzBob

bartender187 · 07-26-2004, 02:37 AM

Im pretty sure you mix the nutes you add them. However ive never grown in hydro.

Great to see you up and runnin BB

bartender176

BuzzBob · 07-26-2004, 02:55 AM

Thanx 'tender! --

Its up; yeah... But runn'n I'm not too sure about as yet. 'course the biggest bug-a-boo is prolly the guy driving the rig! LOL...

'twas an adventure already, for sure! I won't even mention how many trips to Lowes I made!

Also, its probably a doggone good thing I didn't see HOG's new kickbutt system before I got it goin', else I'd probably be back out dropp'n more $$$ needlessly. I'll save for once I've had a few sucessful runs though...

-BuzzBob

Hooked-On-Grown · 07-26-2004, 02:23 PM

hey bob
everything sounds pretty good.
Are the buckets connected? to each other and the res?
You will have less problems with pH fluctuation with a bigger res.
The trick with DWC is lots of fine bubbles. I suggest getting a bigger air stone or another 1". When plants get bigger, I also suggest at least 3-4 airstones per bucket. Sounds excessive but when that root ball gets big and starts to fill up the bucket, the roots will need more oxygen. The plants will explode. You will have to check pH at least once a day....twice if possible. Let the pH drift from 5.6-6.1.....that way they go up and down the full spectrum and uptake the correct nutrience.

Raise the light a little bit,,some stretching is better then burning!
90 degrees a little high, but not too bad, maybe want to bring down a little.
the cotyledons will yellow and die no matter what. It is a good sign they are ready for some minor nutes.

GH 3 part......very simple to use. Look at side of bottle and it says how many tsp per gallon depending on what stage they are in. This early on you can get away with just the Micro and the Grow. If it says 1 tsp per gallon and you have a 18 gall res, just add 1/4 strength nutes of that. So add about 5-6 tsp of Micro and Grow and start with that. See how they react to that for a few days then raise by another 1/4 strength. Very delicate this early on....be careful.
I would dump all water and start with new. Mix in res and pump into buckets.
Remember when mixing GH 3 part ALWAYS mix the Micro in the water FIRST. Let it mix for a few seconds, then add the Grow and Bloom.
Any other ??'s feel free to ask.
Looks good so far....best way to learn is with actual experience with trial and error!!

Later

BuzzBob · 07-26-2004, 04:00 PM

Thanx HOG! I knew I could count on you for the info I needed...

I actually have "real" work to do today, so I prolly won't be able to work with my garden until later in the afternoon/evening, at the earliest...

Res Size: Yeah, it's funny, but I actually realized that my res size is probably too small last night when I was typing up my post. I have that big black Tuff Box in standby {27 gal I think}, and will be bringing it into the fray later today. That'll provide enough water/nutes to completely flush/refill the entire system, which based on your recommendation, I will do...

Right now, the buckets are all just looped together. No direct lines from the controller. {One line from the controller to bucket 1, then a loop from bucket 1 to bucket 2, etc.} This I am going to change. More along the lines of what you set up with your E&F Bucket sys.

I have one 310 gph submersible pump I can move around to pump stuff about as needed, and will use it to pump the system out for the refresh of water with the first real feeding.

Question to clarify: Is it best to mix the water/nutes, let it cycle in the res over night, and then check/adjust pH before giving it to the plants? Key thing: The let 'er mix and rest for a spell... Is it necessary?

More bubbles, eh? Okay! Will do! Right now, my one Air Pump is sized for a 50 gal aquarium. Will that one be able to provide enough air flow for the system?

Question: Should the Controller and Res also have Air Stones?

The burning I experienced, I believe, was when my BuzzBob NotSo-Handyman Makeshift Reflector for four 42 watt CFLs failed to hold the bulbs up, and they dropped down to within 1" of the plants over night one night. :( It was after that fiasco that I dropped the $$$ for the two shop lights/full spectrum tubes. At present, I have the lights like 2" over the plants, and they seem to love it!

Also, a change I have made is to move the whole op from a smallish closet to the basement. Temps down there are very cool, which I figure will work well with the 400 watt hps I have coming. At present, with the tubes 2" over the plants, the temp at plant level is hovering around 72 degrees F. LOL! What a problem! It too cool! That'll change, I am sure... My relative humidity fluctuates from 45% to 67%. Depending on whether I am in there working up a sweat or not...

Trial & Error... Yeppers! That's why it is Bagseed to start... Once I feel confident in the basics of my op, and in my knowledge, I plan to obtain some decent genetics. Not sure what just yet. But something nice, I am sure...

Thanx again for your help, HOG! Much appreciated!!!

-Bob

Hooked-On-Grown · 07-26-2004, 05:11 PM

as long as your doing DWC, you can leave the buckets looped like they are. As long as you can empty all through the controller bucket, it should be fine. I am doing flood and drain and water 6 times a day.

Quote:

Question to clarify: Is it best to mix the water/nutes, let it cycle in the res over night, and then check/adjust pH before giving it to the plants? Key thing: The let 'er mix and rest for a spell... Is it necessary?

I add my nutes to water, usually it brings the pH down to 5.8, depending on what growth stage I am in. If needed then I add pH down. Add nutes first....wait at least 10 min to circulate......adjust pH.....wait 10 minutes......feed to plants immeidiatly. Allowing it to sit overnight or for two days, you will notice the ppm rise and also the pH. This is what they call "hot" nutes and is natural. readjust the water in the res before feeding plants. No need to let sit overnight.....10 minutes is enough to circulate.

More bubbles....like a 50 gal aquarium and 4" airstone per bucket. Adding another 4" stone and pump later in growth.
the more bubbles the more oxygen, the happier your roots and plant are!! You can put an airstone in res. I have a circulation pump and airstone in my res's. The better you can keep it circulated and mixed together the better.

Shop lights and full spec lights are a good buy!!
Maybe keep the buckets off the basement floor will help keep temps up a little.

Check out this grow journal .....HERE....its a VERY detailed day by day bubbler grow.

Sinfuldreams · 07-26-2004, 06:10 PM

doing your 1st show Bob.

When you feel ready to move on to other than bag seed ( Nothin Wrong with bag seed ) let us know.

Im sure one of us can help you along those lines.

Keep the good notes Bob.
You will do well, I can tell already!

Take care
Sin

BuzzBob · 07-26-2004, 07:10 PM

Hey HOG! Thanx again for the opinions & info! And the grow log link is great! I'll mull through that in detail later. {Just pass'n thru right now, and headed out in a few to another client meeting}

Wow! One pump per bucket, eh? Hmmmm... And 4" stones? I was sure I'd read that that 1"ers actually created finer bubbles, and therefore put more oxygen into the water... But I will most definitley add at least one more per bucket, and another pump on line.

I think I keep the 310 gph pump in the res most times, and fire it up from time to time to keep the res/nutes stirred. Not too sure just yet about adding an air pump/stone there. I'll need to price out the pumps... If I *can* find 'em reasonable, I may grab two for the buckets, and move the 50 gal air pump to the res. We'll see...

Oh, and I do have the buckets off the floor. They're actually sitting on 3/4" pine boards on top of cinder blocks... I just have a very cold basement!

Sin: LOL... Ayuh, as it may be... More consulting for opinions and direction right now! Once I get into the decent genetics, I fully plan on doing a full blown Grow Log. As I have said, the bag seed is for learning, and experimenting. I have also learned lately that I need to work with my Sony DigiCam on macro shots. I tried a few last night, and they were so out of focus that I opted not to post. Besides, the poor li'l plants are so pathetic look'n right now, it'd be embarassing! LOL...

Thanx for the sentiments! Also, thanx for the consult you provided in PMs! All Mucho Appreciated!!

-Bob

Hooked-On-Grown · 07-26-2004, 09:35 PM

maybe look into a sprikler manifold. They use them to run like 8 different lines to flower pots. You can use them for air as well. Get a good size pump and connect it to the manifold and run off 8 lines. You can put 2 per bucket then with 1" or 4" airstones.
It is really simple to hook up and cost only 10 bucks for the manifold and 10 bucks for like 50' of 1/4" rubber tubing. The tubing fits right onto the manifold and airstoes. This will eliminate having 8 different air pumps.

Hope that makes sense. Ask me if it doesn't.

BuzzBob · 07-26-2004, 10:57 PM

:::Sigh::: Oh well... Too late! LOL...

I just got in, and on my way back from the client meeting I stopped off and grabbed two 40 gal, dual outlet, aquarium whisper pumps. {The 50 gal one I have makes one heck of a lotta noise, so I sprung the extra couple bucks for the ones that are s'posed to be quiet.}

I figure I'll run one outlet to each bucket, with a splitter on each, putting two 1" air stones in each bucket. Then I'll take the 50 gal air pump I have, and set it up in the res with two 4" stones that I have already...

Thanx for the tips though! I'll keep it in mind if I ever redesign and/or expand...

-Bob

07-26-2004, 02:31 AM	#1
BuzzBob aka Buzz'dBob Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: State of Misery Posts: 1,149	BuzzBob's First DWC Adventure! Please tell me where I've made mistakes, and help to correct and move on... First, the seeds I am growing out are bagseed at present until I work out the kinks and get past some learning mistakes. On 7/11 I started germing 12 seeds in distilled water with just a touch of Superthrive. Germ rate was good for the unknown nature of the seeds; 8/12. On 7/13, with a slight tail, I placed the seeds into Rockwool cubes soaked in distilled water, again with a touch of Superthrive, and placed into a makeshift {upside down Tupperware} humidity dome. Within just a couple days, several were breaking the surface. On 7/16 the tap roots of several of the seedlings had reached the bottom of the Rockwool cubes. By the next day, the tapers were compressing against the floor of the dome. So I opted to promote the best looking 4. The system I have set up is a basic four bucket {5 gals/ea} dwc, with a controller bucket {no float valve as yet} and an 18 gallon res. All five of the buckets have been made lightproof by wrapping them in 6 mil black plastic. Each of the growing buckets has a 1" airstone. Today, 7/25, the seedlings are but approximately 1.5" in height. Each is starting to show their second set of "real" leaves. {Discounting the cotyledons} The breadth of he first primary leaves is but approximately 1". Pretty weak looking, really! I believe I have had a few issues over the last two weeks, including high pH for a couple of days until I obtained a meter, a couple of temperature spikes into the 90s (F), and possibly some light burning with some pretty warm CFLs I was using until I recently set up a pair of shop light fluoros with full spectrum tubes. As a result of these incidences, all four plants show some browning on the cotyledons and the initial primaries. The new growth {second set of leaves} is looking much more healthy at present! So... That gets us up to date... Have I made any serious mistakes so far? If so, please let me know what, and what I should've done instead... Moving on... Since I am approaching two weeks, I believe I should start to introduce nutes soon; Correct? What a scary thought! Babies' first feeding... I have GH 3 Part, but am all but clueless on how to mix these, in what quantities, and how best to feed them into the system. I have read a lot, but it can be so cornfusing to someone who's never been through it. Questions: * Do I mix the nutes, and merely add them to the controller bucket and let it "trickle" into the system? * To do this, I would have to push the controller's contents back up to the res first; Right? * Or do I mix up a complete replacement set of water/nutes, and empty/refill the system with the new stuff? Please... Feel free to throw in any additional advice you may have for a First Time Grower! Much Grass! {My very poor Spanish for Many Thanx!} -BuzzBob Last edited by BuzzBob; 08-06-2004 at 05:05 PM..
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07-26-2004, 02:23 PM	#4
Hooked-On-Grown Banned Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: I'm in here.....somewhere... Posts: 2,158	hey bob everything sounds pretty good. Are the buckets connected? to each other and the res? You will have less problems with pH fluctuation with a bigger res. The trick with DWC is lots of fine bubbles. I suggest getting a bigger air stone or another 1". When plants get bigger, I also suggest at least 3-4 airstones per bucket. Sounds excessive but when that root ball gets big and starts to fill up the bucket, the roots will need more oxygen. The plants will explode. You will have to check pH at least once a day....twice if possible. Let the pH drift from 5.6-6.1.....that way they go up and down the full spectrum and uptake the correct nutrience. Raise the light a little bit,,some stretching is better then burning! 90 degrees a little high, but not too bad, maybe want to bring down a little. the cotyledons will yellow and die no matter what. It is a good sign they are ready for some minor nutes. GH 3 part......very simple to use. Look at side of bottle and it says how many tsp per gallon depending on what stage they are in. This early on you can get away with just the Micro and the Grow. If it says 1 tsp per gallon and you have a 18 gall res, just add 1/4 strength nutes of that. So add about 5-6 tsp of Micro and Grow and start with that. See how they react to that for a few days then raise by another 1/4 strength. Very delicate this early on....be careful. I would dump all water and start with new. Mix in res and pump into buckets. Remember when mixing GH 3 part ALWAYS mix the Micro in the water FIRST. Let it mix for a few seconds, then add the Grow and Bloom. Any other ??'s feel free to ask. Looks good so far....best way to learn is with actual experience with trial and error!! Later Last edited by Hooked-On-Grown; 07-26-2004 at 02:25 PM..
	Quote

07-26-2004, 04:00 PM	#5
BuzzBob aka Buzz'dBob Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: State of Misery Posts: 1,149	Thanx HOG! I knew I could count on you for the info I needed... I actually have "real" work to do today, so I prolly won't be able to work with my garden until later in the afternoon/evening, at the earliest... Res Size: Yeah, it's funny, but I actually realized that my res size is probably too small last night when I was typing up my post. I have that big black Tuff Box in standby {27 gal I think}, and will be bringing it into the fray later today. That'll provide enough water/nutes to completely flush/refill the entire system, which based on your recommendation, I will do... Right now, the buckets are all just looped together. No direct lines from the controller. {One line from the controller to bucket 1, then a loop from bucket 1 to bucket 2, etc.} This I am going to change. More along the lines of what you set up with your E&F Bucket sys. I have one 310 gph submersible pump I can move around to pump stuff about as needed, and will use it to pump the system out for the refresh of water with the first real feeding. Question to clarify: Is it best to mix the water/nutes, let it cycle in the res over night, and then check/adjust pH before giving it to the plants? Key thing: The let 'er mix and rest for a spell... Is it necessary? More bubbles, eh? Okay! Will do! Right now, my one Air Pump is sized for a 50 gal aquarium. Will that one be able to provide enough air flow for the system? Question: Should the Controller and Res also have Air Stones? The burning I experienced, I believe, was when my BuzzBob NotSo-Handyman Makeshift Reflector for four 42 watt CFLs failed to hold the bulbs up, and they dropped down to within 1" of the plants over night one night. :( It was after that fiasco that I dropped the $$$ for the two shop lights/full spectrum tubes. At present, I have the lights like 2" over the plants, and they seem to love it! Also, a change I have made is to move the whole op from a smallish closet to the basement. Temps down there are very cool, which I figure will work well with the 400 watt hps I have coming. At present, with the tubes 2" over the plants, the temp at plant level is hovering around 72 degrees F. LOL! What a problem! It too cool! That'll change, I am sure... My relative humidity fluctuates from 45% to 67%. Depending on whether I am in there working up a sweat or not... Trial & Error... Yeppers! That's why it is Bagseed to start... Once I feel confident in the basics of my op, and in my knowledge, I plan to obtain some decent genetics. Not sure what just yet. But something nice, I am sure... Thanx again for your help, HOG! Much appreciated!!! -Bob Last edited by BuzzBob; 07-26-2004 at 04:04 PM..
	Quote

07-26-2004, 06:10 PM	#7
Sinfuldreams Basement Garden Gnome Join Date: May 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,581	Good to see you doing your 1st show Bob. When you feel ready to move on to other than bag seed ( Nothin Wrong with bag seed ) let us know. Im sure one of us can help you along those lines. Keep the good notes Bob. You will do well, I can tell already! Take care Sin __________________ Amateur Hour (Ron Mael) Lawns grow plush in the hinterlands It's the perfect little setting for the one night stands Now the drapes are drawn and the lights are out It's the time to put in practice what you've dreamed about Sinfuldreams: <<< Can Only Speak of Future Whoring Nattynattygurrl : I Aspire to Whore
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07-26-2004, 02:37 AM	#2
bartender187 Bakin in da Sun Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Planet Zeldar Posts: 2,949	Im pretty sure you mix the nutes you add them. However ive never grown in hydro. Great to see you up and runnin BB bartender176
	Quote

07-26-2004, 02:55 AM	#3
BuzzBob aka Buzz'dBob Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: State of Misery Posts: 1,149	Thanx 'tender! -- Its up; yeah... But runn'n I'm not too sure about as yet. 'course the biggest bug-a-boo is prolly the guy driving the rig! LOL... 'twas an adventure already, for sure! I won't even mention how many trips to Lowes I made! Also, its probably a doggone good thing I didn't see HOG's new kickbutt system before I got it goin', else I'd probably be back out dropp'n more $$$ needlessly. I'll save for once I've had a few sucessful runs though... -BuzzBob
	Quote

07-26-2004, 07:10 PM	#8
BuzzBob aka Buzz'dBob Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: State of Misery Posts: 1,149	Hey HOG! Thanx again for the opinions & info! And the grow log link is great! I'll mull through that in detail later. {Just pass'n thru right now, and headed out in a few to another client meeting} Wow! One pump per bucket, eh? Hmmmm... And 4" stones? I was sure I'd read that that 1"ers actually created finer bubbles, and therefore put more oxygen into the water... But I will most definitley add at least one more per bucket, and another pump on line. I think I keep the 310 gph pump in the res most times, and fire it up from time to time to keep the res/nutes stirred. Not too sure just yet about adding an air pump/stone there. I'll need to price out the pumps... If I can find 'em reasonable, I may grab two for the buckets, and move the 50 gal air pump to the res. We'll see... Oh, and I do have the buckets off the floor. They're actually sitting on 3/4" pine boards on top of cinder blocks... I just have a very cold basement! Sin: LOL... Ayuh, as it may be... More consulting for opinions and direction right now! Once I get into the decent genetics, I fully plan on doing a full blown Grow Log. As I have said, the bag seed is for learning, and experimenting. I have also learned lately that I need to work with my Sony DigiCam on macro shots. I tried a few last night, and they were so out of focus that I opted not to post. Besides, the poor li'l plants are so pathetic look'n right now, it'd be embarassing! LOL... Thanx for the sentiments! Also, thanx for the consult you provided in PMs! All Mucho Appreciated!! -Bob
	Quote

07-26-2004, 09:35 PM	#9
Hooked-On-Grown Banned Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: I'm in here.....somewhere... Posts: 2,158	maybe look into a sprikler manifold. They use them to run like 8 different lines to flower pots. You can use them for air as well. Get a good size pump and connect it to the manifold and run off 8 lines. You can put 2 per bucket then with 1" or 4" airstones. It is really simple to hook up and cost only 10 bucks for the manifold and 10 bucks for like 50' of 1/4" rubber tubing. The tubing fits right onto the manifold and airstoes. This will eliminate having 8 different air pumps. Hope that makes sense. Ask me if it doesn't.
	Quote

07-26-2004, 10:57 PM	#10
BuzzBob aka Buzz'dBob Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: State of Misery Posts: 1,149	:::Sigh::: Oh well... Too late! LOL... I just got in, and on my way back from the client meeting I stopped off and grabbed two 40 gal, dual outlet, aquarium whisper pumps. {The 50 gal one I have makes one heck of a lotta noise, so I sprung the extra couple bucks for the ones that are s'posed to be quiet.} I figure I'll run one outlet to each bucket, with a splitter on each, putting two 1" air stones in each bucket. Then I'll take the 50 gal air pump I have, and set it up in the res with two 4" stones that I have already... Thanx for the tips though! I'll keep it in mind if I ever redesign and/or expand... -Bob
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