Sanity Check?

Berm · Jul 21, 2019

Hi all,

Apologies in advance for the wall of text. I've been lurking a while trying to sort out what I should be doing for my first grow and I think I've got something worked out. I'd really appreciate any feedback or suggestions those of you with more experience would be kind enough to offer before I commit to buying more supplies.

My main goals here are to start off fairly simple and to keep things inexpensive until I'm certain I want to pursue this further.

I have a 2x4 tent kitand 600w (260w actual) Viparspectra LED that came cheap from a friend. It came with an intake fan, exhaust fan and filter, as well as a small fan for air flow within the tent.

My intention is to grow in hempy buckets. They seem less fussy than other hydro methods and I wouldn't have to bring soil (or critters!) into the house. For simplicity I thought I'd do 100% perlite for the medium and germinate in 2x2 rockwool.

I'm leaning towards KC Brains seeds, probably Mango or Sweet Dreams (suggestions welcome!), because they're inexpensive seeds to practice withand indicas sound a bit easier to manage.

I'd like to practice seed propagation, so I thought I'd grow out 10x 1 gal buckets per run. This is the part I'm least sure of. I feel like I may be overcrowding the space or biting off more than I can chew when it comes to maintenance. The thinking behind the number of plants is that I have no clue how to breed with intent, so the smartest play would be to maximize diversity.

I figure that roughly half will end up being males, so that would free up some space when I move them out of the tent. Where they'll go and what to do with them is something I'll likely bother you all about in the future.

For nutrients I've seen several threads where people suggest using GH Maxibloom all the way through (KISS?) and that sounds like a good idea to start off with.

I'm not certain if a ph/ec meter is strictly necessary, so I was considering skipping on picking them up, but I'm open to being persuaded otherwise.

Aside from everything above I think the only other thing I need is a timer. Should/can the lights and fans run on the same timer or should the lights run on schedule and the fans run 24/7?

Like I said, any guidance you can offer would be hugely appreciated and thanks to all of you for the community you've built and maintained here. I've learned a ton just from browsing past threads.

Gauss · Jul 21, 2019

IMO soil is actually easier to get a good final product if you've got your environment stable, big points in that regard are temp and humidity mostly. You'll learn a lot more out of the gate doing hydro, though it's less forgiving if you mess something up by accident or don't use quality untreated water.

KC Brains has some good stuff, don't let the prices fool you. Yea, a lot of it is not as consistent as say, something like Karma Genetics gear, but it's still all good. You'll learn to pheno hunt better using KC gear and there are gems in his stuff for anyone willing to look. My first grow years and years ago was KC gear, KC 36 I think. I was very happy with it in any case.

If you think you might be crowding your space then back off it or be prepared to cut them back periodically which sucks but nothing you couldn't handle. You could even let them do a SOG sort of thing if want, though I avoid it for airflow reasons due to my growing in soil and the benefits of higher air volume exchange to keep pests and moulds away. The big thing to worry about is vertical space, otherwise you'll probably be fine unless they're really shoving each other around or spreading issues quickly. 10 buckets in a 2x4 space is probably a bit much in my own opinion. My rule of thumb is to give the plants a personal space twice the diameter of their (soil) pots. Maybe your pots are small enough to do that still.

Hydro nutes are above my level, others here can help a lot with that though.

PH/EC meter is a must have, especially for hydro, can't get along without it sooner or later. Any old Chinesium amazon one will work, I think they are about 12USD.

Timer is a must have as well, can't get along without it. Plants really thrive off the routine day to day. I keep fans on all the time, lights on a timer.

Word to the wise, pollen will get everywhere you don't want it to unless you isolate each plant for at least a few days for the pollination. Not a big deal, just be prepared to sterilize your space after each grow if you don't want random seed volunteers. If you want to selectively pollinate then collect the pollen separately and use a small paintbrush to pollenate the buds you want to hit. It will still make random seeds nine times out of ten but nothing insane.

blowingupjake · Jul 21, 2019

Hey man,
Welcome to ICMag and what is truly a great hobby.

Hempy style growing is easy and successful in most cases.
Good choice. While not the biggest fan personally, tons of people have good experiences with the KISS method you’re considering.
A meter is a great tool to have and I can say for sure that hydroponics became insanely easy once I could precisely measure my mix.
That being said, I’d bet just pH drops or strips coupled with not pushing your nutrient levels and you’ll be happy with your first harvest.

I run my fans 24/7.

Best of luck to you, have fun!

Stay hazed
Jake

Leaflet · Jul 21, 2019

Gauss is correct - you absolutely need both a pH and a PPM meter.

Since this is your first grow, I highly recommend keeping things simple. Just try to grow 2 plants in 5 gallon pots to maturity in your space. Once you get the basics of growing(and not killing your plants), then experiment with other things.

Use soil for your first grow as well. It is very forgiving.

blowingupjake · Jul 21, 2019

I disagree completely.

——-You do not “absolutely need” a ph/ppm meter for growing in hempy buckets or in Hydro although it does remove the guess work and help maximize your system... You need common sense patience and an ability to learn what the plants are showing—- as long as you have a ballpark of pH and don’t follow package instructions on nutrients you can grow healthy and happy plants.

It would be nice if more people with actual RELEVANT experience would chime in instead of soil growers who think they know it all and actively encourage people not to try a method they haven’t.

Hempy buckets are very easy, very forgiving and low tech. The OP has done some research, don’t try and change his mind. Either help with the specific questions or don’t. . :tiphat:

Gauss · Jul 21, 2019

blowingupjake said:
I disagree completely.

——-You do not “absolutely need” a ph/ppm meter for growing in hempy buckets or in Hydro although it does remove the guess work and help maximize your system... You need common sense patience and an ability to learn what the plants are showing—- as long as you have a ballpark of pH and don’t follow package instructions on nutrients you can grow healthy and happy plants.

It would be nice if more people with actual RELEVANT experience would chime in instead of soil growers who think they know it all and actively encourage people not to try a method they haven’t.

Hempy buckets are very easy, very forgiving and low tech. The OP has done some research, don’t try and change his mind. Either help with the specific questions or don’t. .

First time he comes here with an unknown issue 9/10 chance the first question will be what is your PH. He needs a PH meter.

The rest I'm going to assume is just you dick waving and not gonna take it personally.

Leaflet · Jul 21, 2019

I didn't know it was necessary to state my credentials, but apparently it is.
Berm, I grow in soil and hempy buckets, indoor and outdoor, HID and LED lighting.
As stated before, you absolutely (most especially as a beginner) need a pH meter and a PPM meter.
Sorry your thread is getting waylaid so early on.

blowingupjake · Jul 21, 2019

You two are annoying.

pH drops or strips are more effective for a new grower than a cheap meter. Recommending that a new grower dump the $$$ required for a trustworthy meter is just foolish and can be disheartening to a new grower trying to dabble in a hobby that can get very expensive very fast.

After a couple harvests and OP decides “yeah, I like this hobby!” Is the time to invest the money required for a meter worth buying.

The cheap ass meters on amazon are a waste of money and often handicap new growers with incorrect readings. For you two to imply that growing weed with the cheaper, more widely available monitoring equipment is somehow incorrect is really stupid.
Lordie lordie, what did we do before everyone had a fancy Hanna/Bluelab meter!?

This will be my last post in this topic, I hope the OP is able to find the information he is searching for.

Leaflet · Jul 22, 2019

Berm, PPM meters are uncomplicated and relatively inexpensive. In fact, most of the ones out there are the same board in a different plastic case. Here is a $15 one that will suit you just fine:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CWDVJY9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

When it comes to PPM meters, the Apera PH-20 is hands down the most popular one. I recommend getting the combination kit, which includes the stuff you need for calibrating, etc.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077Z6LF91/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Avoid the pH drops and color strips - they are not accurate.

Gauss · Jul 22, 2019

In 15 years of growing, a basic Amazon PH meter is the single best investment I ever made regardless of the medium or substrate. I'm sure about 90% of the rest of the members here who don't have a random bone to pick will agree, that's all I'm going to say about it.

starke · Jul 22, 2019

I grow in Hempy's from 20oz solo clone cups to five gallon buckets for flower. I mix about 70% perlite and 30% hydroton for the medium but straight perlite will work just fine. I started out with the KISS method for nutes but often ran into the issue of the plants wanting a little more N than the Maxibloom was providing. I switched to the Jacks Pro Hydro 5-12-26 and Calcium Nitrate 15-0-0 and have not looked back.

I agree that you need a way to measure ph and ec. The method is entirely up to you based on budget and your personal preference.

Leaflet · Jul 22, 2019

Gauss said:
In 15 years of growing, a basic Amazon PH meter is the single best investment I ever made regardless of the medium or substrate. I'm sure about 90% of the rest of the members here who don't have a random bone to pick will agree, that's all I'm going to say about it.

Maybe just say one more thing about it?

If you could supply a hyperlink or a part number for the one you have, that would be great. I'm all about saving people money when getting started in this hobby, because it can get expensive!

Berm, I should have said above, "The Apera PH-20 is the most popular one, but that doesn't mean you have to buy that model."

Lost in a SOG · Jul 22, 2019

Id say pick better genetics,, this is 3-4 months of your life were talking about here.

Get something easy to grow that is feminised.. there are many many options.. but kc brains your going to get a light feeding jungly plant.. i might suggest warlock by serious seeds (bred by magus seeds) as a random suggestion..

Best vibes for your new hobby :ying:

Berm · Jul 22, 2019

Thanks very much for advice, all! $15 for a meter isn't that steep an investment for peace of mind, so I'll be adding that to the kit. Appreciate the link! If I keep rolling with this I'll probably upgrade down the line and if I don't I'll just bundle the meter in with the rest of the kit when I sell it off.

My major concern is trying to veg/flower 10/~5 plants in an 8sqft space. Since that hasn't touched off as much discussion, am I right inferring that it probably isn't likely going to be an issue? The containers I'm looking at are 7.5"D.

Starke, really appreciate the nutrients suggestion. That seems flexible but uncomplicated. I'm guessing they provide a guide/schedule for how much Cal Nitrate to supplement with at each stage?

As for genetics, I'm mostly looking to stay cheap for the first couple runs. I'd feel better about cocking up $20 worth of seeds than $50+. I'm also not a connoisseur by any stretch of the imagination and such a lightweight that even low-to-middling potency is likely to put me on my ass.

Once I have a couple harvests under my belt and I'm feeling more confident, I'll branch out into pricier stock.

Again, thanks for all of your input so far folks! If anyone's willing to offer more advice I'd be happy to take it!

Berm · Jul 22, 2019

Follow up post since I can't sort out how to edit the first one:

Starke, what's the benefit of adding the hydroton vs straight perlite?

Gauss · Jul 22, 2019

Berm said:
Follow up post since I can't sort out how to edit the first one:

Starke, what's the benefit of adding the hydroton vs straight perlite?

Perlite will take swell when taking on moisture and takes longer to drain, basically moulding to itself and decreasing the net available oxygen in comparison to properly scheduled hydroton/LECA, which is just a more ideal medium because it does not do that and drains better while leaving more room between itself for root growth. It "wicks" less but is generally less messy and seems to be much less conducive to algae and bacteria. Hydroton will swell also, but it's less of an issue since it doesn't cement. You can put a piece of rockwool in the bottom to help with wicking if it's a concern. Make sure you rinse and presoak your hydroton, if you reuse it then sterilize/clean it as good measure. If you go with hydroton I'd start your seedlings in a rockwool plug to keep light away from the short young root zone more effectively, but in any case have your system dialled in before putting them in and it shouldn't be an issue. Both perlite and hydroton/LECA will work, but if you use perlite make sure you get the chunky kind.

You might want to pre-nutrient your hydroton with something around .3-.4 EC, but don't go nuts with it.

dank.frank · Jul 22, 2019

dank.frank said:
A plant NEVER grows wrong or improperly or incorrectly. It's impossible. Plants (any plant - demystify cannabis - it is merely a plant) have a genetic code they follow. A predisposition to behave, want, require certain variables to perform at their optimum; or to even live at all for that matter. No matter what situation a plants primary purpose is to ensure it's genetic survival. Primarily, to live another generation, to make seed which will fall to the ground, etc, etc. so goes the process. To ensure this survival, a plant will allow the very best genetic material it posses to be expressed given the variables it is being subjected to. Meaning, a plant NEVER grows incorrectly - we as growers merely fail to provide the best possible variables to get the desired genetic response. A prime example of this seen clearly when different phenotypes surface of the exact same clone as a result of environmental variations.

Plants merely respond to the variables they are subjected to - they respond to environmental stimuli. Essentially there are two main environmental zones a grower must control: the environment around the foliage and the environment around the roots. If you provide the proper stimuli within these two primary zones you will grow successful plants. Given enough time, you learn to maximize the environmental conditions (dialing in) and the end result is a plant that presents itself, phenotypically, with the best genetic material that is possible can...

Most people will agree on what the proper environmental conditions for environment surrounding the foliage so it really makes no logical sense to discuss that (nothing new to add there), however, people treat the environment around the roots different on nearly every aspect ranging from feeding methods to planting medium.

Since environment is the ONLY factor which has any direct result on how plants perform, it becomes important to understand when we feed a plant, food is input - environmental stimuli. This means food source and how it is provided plays a direct result on the genetic information that will surface as the plant expresses phenotype. (remember: genotype + environment = phenotype)

Personally, I want the TRUEST expression a plant has to offer. A genetic expression that is not altered by how I choose to interact the plant. This is important when attempting to evaluate varying nuances of many plants. In nature, when a plant grows the only thing to alter it's life is the ground it fell on and the water it gets from the rain. (more or less)

dank.Frank

starke · Jul 22, 2019

Gauss is on the money regarding the hydroton.

There are several threads on here regarding Jacks and the different ways to use it. Myself, for the small rez I deal with (30 gallons), I use the equal volume of each component measure and usually run around 1.0-1.2 ec in veg and decreasing to about .4ec in late flower prior to flush.

troutman · Jul 22, 2019

Use distilled or rain water if the salinity is too high.

Douglas.Curtis · Jul 22, 2019

What type of person are you? I grow hydro **specifically** because of the type of person I am. I have severe ADHD and have not been able to train myself to take consistent notes.

Soil plants can take up to a week to show changes from your input.
Hydro plants begin showing the change overnight.

I usually have zero clue what I fed my plants 3 days earlier, so I've stuck with hydro for 15+ years. If you have a memory or take regular notes well, you can probably buy a couple bags of happy frog and grow some nice starter plants to be proud of.

I spent 6 months reading up on hydro, chasing down most of my questions through research first.

Whatever your decision, I recommend spending at **least** a few weeks reading relevant threads on here. Once you can easily answer most of your initial questions yourself, jump in and get started.

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Sanity Check?

Berm

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Gauss

blowingupjake

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Leaflet

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blowingupjake

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Gauss

Leaflet

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blowingupjake

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Leaflet

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Gauss

starke

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Lost in a SOG

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Berm

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starke

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troutman

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Douglas.Curtis

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