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Fundamentally understanding soil components

xBOBxSAGETx

New member
Hey guys. I used the search and really came up with nothing. Maybe because I’m a rookie and probably don’t know the vocabulary well.

Allow me to preface that this is my first grow. I wish to not buy prepackaged soil/soiless medium because I simply want a better understanding of what I’m doing.

I want to build my own soil and I see several recipes on here with feeding guidelines but what I’m trying to understand is; how are you getting to that point of saying that’s the percentage of what you want in your soil and know that your pH level and nutrient levels are going to hit their marks without “seasoning” the soil with all types of products.

In the audio engineering world we have a saying “You can’t polish a turd.” Well I don’t want my soil to be a turd. I want it to be as good as it possibly can be, from the start.

Is there a program that’s make for soil recipes that can calculate and populate the nutrient volumes of what I’m adding/subtracting from the recipe? Kinda like BeerSmith for brewing beer but for building soil!

I hope I didn’t sound so recklessly amateur in my post. Grow stores are already annoying me by selling me kits which I don’t want a magic bottle solution. I’m trying to learn as much as I can.
 

Nup

Active member
Are you thinking of soil like dirt? I like to grow that way because it can be fairly hands off after an inital investment of time. If so...

Theres sevral ways, so far as i know to make a good soil. Most recipes add nutrients in the form of degradable material - think slow release - bone meal, plant meals (seaweeds), blood beal, tree chippings, coffe grounds, etc. All rich in various elements or compunds that plants can easily uptake. Phosporous, nitrogen, potassium (the famous NPK) and othen others have mirco nutrients too, like metals.
Along with material to adjust the structure of the soil (dont want mud) and let the roots get both air and water; sand, peat moss, perlite & vermiculite, insect frass etc.

To me the two way of giving your plants this are super soils and no till. -super soils are rich soil mixes that are readily spent in a couple of grows, and no till is more long term sustainable soil, where additional plants are added to compliment the soil and keep it "eating". The key is that both soils are "alive", using bacterial and fungi to make the nutrients availible to the plant.
The main key ingredient is a good base compost that will innoculate the soil mix from there add some things and experiment with the mixes over time.



Hope thats somwhat concise. happy growing.
 

xBOBxSAGETx

New member
Are you thinking of soil like dirt? I like to grow that way because it can be fairly hands off after an inital investment of time. If so...

Theres sevral ways, so far as i know to make a good soil. Most recipes add nutrients in the form of degradable material - think slow release - bone meal, plant meals (seaweeds), blood beal, tree chippings, coffe grounds, etc. All rich in various elements or compunds that plants can easily uptake. Phosporous, nitrogen, potassium (the famous NPK) and othen others have mirco nutrients too, like metals.
Along with material to adjust the structure of the soil (dont want mud) and let the roots get both air and water; sand, peat moss, perlite & vermiculite, insect frass etc.

To me the two way of giving your plants this are super soils and no till. -super soils are rich soil mixes that are readily spent in a couple of grows, and no till is more long term sustainable soil, where additional plants are added to compliment the soil and keep it "eating". The key is that both soils are "alive", using bacterial and fungi to make the nutrients availible to the plant.
The main key ingredient is a good base compost that will innoculate the soil mix from there add some things and experiment with the mixes over time.



Hope thats somwhat concise. happy growing.


I’m thinking “soil” as my grow medium

Okay so a basic rule of thumb was given. Is that I want

1 part Canadians sphagnum peatmoss
1 part Premium Thermal Compost (up to half of that being wormcastings)
1 part Aeration/drainage
-Compost being the most important thing.

When you add something like “Kelp meal” or “bone meal” do you consider that component a nutrient? Gypsum too?

And yes from what I’m reading the “no till” living soil seems like what I want to do. Inoculating the soil with microbes that are good for the biology of the plant.
 

Chunkypigs

passing the gas
Veteran
I’m thinking “soil” as my grow medium

Okay so a basic rule of thumb was given. Is that I want

1 part Canadians sphagnum peatmoss
1 part Premium Thermal Compost (up to half of that being wormcastings)
1 part Aeration/drainage
-Compost being the most important thing.

When you add something like “Kelp meal” or “bone meal” do you consider that component a nutrient? Gypsum too?

And yes from what I’m reading the “no till” living soil seems like what I want to do. Inoculating the soil with microbes that are good for the biology of the plant.

Yes those are nutrients or supplements in the basic Coots mix formula you have there.

I add a bigger variety of animal, fish, and veg meals as well as a variety of insect frass products in my mix and teasthan you find in his recipes.

A variety of animal poop / stall bedding composted is the best thing if you are willing to get out and collect shit, cow, chicken and horse are easy to find but rabbit, goat, sheep, and alpaca are all good and the more the better my garden grows.

You want the oldest part of the pile from farms that don't skimp on beddding in their stalls, some farms have big shit piles they think are compost that are too wet and anaerobic.

Sometimes the bagged compost from shops is too wet also from pallets sitting out in the rain.
 

Nup

Active member
I’m thinking “soil” as my grow medium

Okay so a basic rule of thumb was given. Is that I want

1 part Canadians sphagnum peatmoss
1 part Premium Thermal Compost (up to half of that being wormcastings)
1 part Aeration/drainage
-Compost being the most important thing.

When you add something like “Kelp meal” or “bone meal” do you consider that component a nutrient? Gypsum too?

And yes from what I’m reading the “no till” living soil seems like what I want to do. Inoculating the soil with microbes that are good for the biology of the plant.


Thats pretty much it, its a good mix that works well. Do you have an easy source of compost?

Yeah, those are sources of nutrient. Gypsum would be good for calcium and sulphur it seems. Lime is a good source of Ca too and an be used to lower pH.

But in genreal a couple of nutriets is enough to get things going. Im sure there are ways to really fine tune a soil and stufy it, but thats ahead of me still.

Usually when a soil is done it has to "cook" (be left idle for a while, moist), life starts to break things down. I think a month is the standrad amound(?). Some growth might show up and you'll see a white fungus growth "santas beard", lol.

In no till people add plants that add to the soil (mostly legumes as they are particular in that they can take N from the atmosphere), topdressings of nutrients (spent coffee grinds are an easy one) and even "teas" or brewed nutrient mixes - id imagine those act pretty fast.
 

Easy7

Active member
Veteran
Just get peat, compost, and a starter fert. Add rock dusts vlcanic dusts for minerals. Starter fert is very good. They make mixes. That's good with water for awhile or with teas from compost.

Later just add gunaos. I'd also add greensand to the soil for k. Starter has all the npk 3 3 3. Plus bacteria and fungi.

Start with veggies. Usually we go cheap with those and just grow em. I use a lot of manure from goats, it's like rabit poo
 

xBOBxSAGETx

New member
Yes those are nutrients or supplements in the basic Coots mix formula you have there.

I add a bigger variety of animal, fish, and veg meals as well as a variety of insect frass products in my mix and teasthan you find in his recipes.

A variety of animal poop / stall bedding composted is the best thing if you are willing to get out and collect shit, cow, chicken and horse are easy to find but rabbit, goat, sheep, and alpaca are all good and the more the better my garden grows.

You want the oldest part of the pile from farms that don't skimp on beddding in their stalls, some farms have big shit piles they think are compost that are too wet and anaerobic.

Sometimes the bagged compost from shops is too wet also from pallets sitting out in the rain.


I’m definitely not down with scoopin the poopins as my vechile is an SUV and don’t need my 4Runner smelling like that hahaha.

Okay I think I’m getting this down a little bit more. There’s just so many recipes, so many nutrients/products to buy. I’m trying to understand what each element is for so I can trim the fat of my shopping list which isn’t making me happy. That Build A Soil 3.0 recipe is crazy expensive lol
 

xBOBxSAGETx

New member
Thats pretty much it, its a good mix that works well. Do you have an easy source of compost?

Yeah, those are sources of nutrient. Gypsum would be good for calcium and sulphur it seems. Lime is a good source of Ca too and an be used to lower pH.

But in genreal a couple of nutriets is enough to get things going. Im sure there are ways to really fine tune a soil and stufy it, but thats ahead of me still.

Usually when a soil is done it has to "cook" (be left idle for a while, moist), life starts to break things down. I think a month is the standrad amound(?). Some growth might show up and you'll see a white fungus growth "santas beard", lol.

In no till people add plants that add to the soil (mostly legumes as they are particular in that they can take N from the atmosphere), topdressings of nutrients (spent coffee grinds are an easy one) and even "teas" or brewed nutrient mixes - id imagine those act pretty fast.

I’m planning on making my own compost pile in my backyard but for now I got two 20lb bags of Mink Compost so I’m excited to use that. The product is called Sconny Green, I got it for free at the IndoExpo. Apparently 10lbs is enough to feed 200lbs. So I should be good!
 
T

Teddybrae

Mate ... I use the dirt we walk on around here and amend it with animal manure, correct pH with Dolomite (cos it's got Mg in it) and then use various foliar sprays for goodies.
(tradition dictates that outdoor soil needs to be limed in winter for use in spring.)

But what I wanted to say is you need to read some gardening books. Mr Coots recipes are great ... no doubt. But gardening basics will improve your understanding and give you power over what you're doing. Read up ... even if the text seems written for the complete idiot.
 

Avinash.miles

Caregiver Extraordinaire
Moderator
ICMag Donor
Veteran
mix your soil and get a soil test (and paste test) on it.... that's my advice if yo uwant to quantify soilmix nutrients and fine tuen them
 

redlaser

Active member
Veteran
You can search organic soil amendments fertilizer values to find out NPK ratios or calcium, trace elements, etc.

Soil test is 40-60 dollars, really the only way to tell what is there. Shows you what you have, what you don’t have, and what you have too much of.
 

Thcvhunter

Well-known member
Veteran
As a beginner in soil,
Start with the ROLS methodology while you research NoTill.
NoTill is almost impractical and requires years of figuring out soil-building to be able to get that first mix correct so it can be used for generations.
 

xBOBxSAGETx

New member
Mate ... I use the dirt we walk on around here and amend it with animal manure, correct pH with Dolomite (cos it's got Mg in it) and then use various foliar sprays for goodies.
(tradition dictates that outdoor soil needs to be limed in winter for use in spring.)

But what I wanted to say is you need to read some gardening books. Mr Coots recipes are great ... no doubt. But gardening basics will improve your understanding and give you power over what you're doing. Read up ... even if the text seems written for the complete idiot.

I think you’re right. I need to read. My biggest downfall in life is overanylzing/over complicating for the fear of failure.
 

h.h.

Active member
Veteran
I think you’re right. I need to read. My biggest downfall in life is overanylzing/over complicating for the fear of failure.


I kill plants just to watch them die.


Get a bucket with a lid. $5. Get that shit. You'll learn to appreciate the smell of good composted shit.
Stink is just a myth anyway.




Concentrate on texture.
But mostly, just start growing.
 
Bob- generally where are you located? I dont want your address or anything. But of we know what city you're in we can help fimd some good local sources for the stuff you need. You can get a bale of peat at home depot for under $20 bucks. Pumice (Or perlite) can be found at most land scraping supply stores for a very reasonable price. You might be able to get some good bagged compost at the same place. Finished compost doesnt smell like shit so you dont need to worry about it stinking up your ride. Basic amendments like crab, kelp, alfalfa meal can be bought online on relatively small quantities. Its not the best stuff on the market but Down To Earth brand is good and available alot of places. Other than those amendments bone meal is good for it's P content. Thats all you really need other than some rock dust. Gypsum is good and available pretty much every where for very cheap, home depot has that too. In my area granite dust is available from rock quarries or land scape supply stores. Those two mixed together work well.

Don't over think it. Just go for it. Worst thing you can do is nothing at all.
 

MJPassion

Observer
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Start with a high quality bagged soil.
While you are using that, research everything you can think of concerning growing in soil and making your mix.


Research William Albrect and read his studies.
Read the BLOG in my signature.
Check out Elain Ingrahm.


Mix your soil and test it. Test the mineral content and adjust as necessary then run a test grow using your soil.


I haven't seen it mentioned yet but once you get started, and if you are serious, you will never stop researching how to improve your growing skills and this includes researching the various mediums used for growing.
 

dank.frank

ef.yu.se.ka.e.em
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Last edited:
You've probably already read this one, but it's a great place to start:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=53792

I myself use a slightly modified version of the old super soil recipe. Keep it simple, there is no need to mix up a soil with a million components (that all cost money/ environmental resources) and make it more difficult to use process of elimination when things go wrong.
And Dank Frank's thread is amazing, as are others packed with info based on years of growing experience. The number one thing you can do is actually mix up a soil and grow some plants in it! Don't overthink it. Yes, you will make mistakes, that's what compost piles are for. The plants will tell you what you need to add or not add next time. Just get started and let the learning and joy of growing begin.
 

Alasgun

New member
Be a cheater first!

Be a cheater first!

On my journey to organic ive generated a list of ammendments and procedures for creating great, re-useable soil. Then i heard about "Agricola soil minerals" from a like minded grower.
This is a completely organic mix that elimenates new guy overthinking! Add correct amount, plant seed, water only thru flowering.
Im not associated with this company, just wanting to pass along something helpful and simply. Too much of this shits been geeked to the point youd begin to believe you need a degree to grow good weed. Go ahead and cheat, then learn the fine points as you go along. This group of 10 are living a good life in used soil ammended with the soil minerals
 

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