New grow some questions - Micro Grows - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums

09-12-2006, 03:52 AM

I have an area 2 1/2 h x 1 w x 3 d if that makes sense? pretty high right now but anyways its a old venting area in my floor thats no longer used and would make a perfect stealth grow. I was thinking two plants from seed 12/12 scrog and I have a 70 watt hps and doing it swc. Now I dont have an area for mothers so I cant veg a mom to take clones and I cant plant a seed directly into the reservoir or can I? so I was wondering if itd be cool to raise them from soil for a little bit until pretty well established them transfer them into the reservoir?

Even if its possilbe to put a seed directly in there I dont have it all set up but I have to put the seeds in something cause we already germed em lol dumb I know. Yeah thanks for the help tho.

Mr_Micro · 09-12-2006, 04:46 AM

In all the DWC and SWC grows I've done (4 total now) I always germed the seeds in a paper towel and then put them straight in the SWC/DWC unit. I filled the net cups up most of the way with hydrotron rocks (the orange expanded clay pellets) and then placed a small rockwool cube in the net cup and filled in the sides of the cup around the cube with more hydrotron.

That way you can just fill the res almost to the top (so that about 1/3 or so of the net cups are submerged in water) and then plant your germinated seed in the little hole in the top of the rockwool cube. The hydrotron rocks will wick up the water and transfer it into the rockwool cube to keep your seedlings well hydrated.

The downside of this is that rockwool cubes arn't exactly PH neutral and should be soaked in PH balanced water for a day or so before you use them. And since your short on time that might be a bit of a problem. But in all honesty, only once did I soak my rockwool cubes before using them and I never really had a problem with em.

These days though I'm using the same SWC planting method for the seedlings, but using those nice organic Rapid Rooter plugs instead of rockwool cubes. They're pre-balanced to a good PH and don't require the pre-soak that rockwool does, plus they're pretty cheap and all my plants have loved em. They wick up water from the hydrotron quite well but seem to hold a lot more air than rockwool does, which is also very good for your young seedlings.

So yeah, basicly, if you can find Rapid Rooter plugs at your local hydro shop than I recommend using them in conjunction with hydrotron rocks in your SWC system. They're usually around $15 for a bag of 50 or so I think. But if you can't find Rapid Rooter plugs then using a small rockwool cube with your hydrotron rocks is probably the next best option.

tngreen · 09-12-2006, 05:35 AM

either of yall have a link with the differences between dwc and swc? i was going to do dwc but height is limited for me so this swc might be a better alt.

Hail · 09-12-2006, 05:44 AM

Hmm, I've never heard of anyone doing a SCROG with plants grown from seed then screen. Only clones.

Anyone here done that?

Good luck on your grow by the way.

Laxpunker · 09-12-2006, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hail

Hmm, I've never heard of anyone doing a SCROG with plants grown from seed then screen. Only clones.

Anyone here done that?

Good luck on your grow by the way.

The only problem with doing it from seed is the fact you could very well end up with two male plants after months of topping. Secondly doing scrog straight from 12/12 is going to be tough, to really get the benefits of scrog you want a long veg time, which 12/12 doesn't offer.

If I were to go through with this I'd pop one seed and throw it under 12/12, if it's a female then take a couple cuttings and procede from there.

Hail · 09-12-2006, 07:27 AM

It would work fine if you were growing fem seeds. But it's alot better to grow a healthy mom, take some clones then SCROG the toughest looking ones.

Some people do a SOG style grow kind of like that, I remember some forum a guy got Easy Bud from Female Seeds and switched to 12/12 right after they popped. He had 4 seedlings which stayed very short but got about a ounce off each plant, 7.5 weeks from seed-harvest packing some fairly potent herb.. Beats the shit outta' Lowryder eh?

Mr_Micro · 09-12-2006, 07:41 AM

I think I might be able to field a couple of questions here...

Tngreen, the only difference between DWC and SWC is the reservoir size.

DWC = Deep Water Culture
SWC = Shallow Water Culture

Functionally speaking they work exactly the same. Take a rubbermaid tub of whatever size you choose and cut some holes into the lid for some net pots to hang through, throw in your net pots with hydrotron, fill up the tub with PH balanced water with the nutrients of your choice, throw in an airstone or two, and your ready to grow.

The big difference is that with DWC you might use a 6 or 10 gallon tub for lots of plants, with SWC you'd probably only be using a 1 or 2 gallon tub for one or two plants. Also, with SWC your going to be topping off your reservoir every few days (sometimes as often as once a day during later stages of growth) and your PH will be far less stable. Most of the time you'll have to re-balance the PH every day or every other day.

Also, I have seen people ScrOG from seed a many times before back on OG. Most of the time they used feminized seeds to help insure female plants but I do recall seeing two or three occasions in which it was done with regular non-feminized seeds.

The idea was to induce flowering at 2 or 3 inches (or straight from seed) so that by the time the plants grow to almost reach the screen they have already shown sex. The males are removed and the plant continues to stretch and grow for another week or two before vegetative growth stops and the plant goes into full flowering. It is during that one or two week period that the stems are carefully bent and woven into the screen for ScrOGing.

Another option for scrogging from seed is to put the plants into 12/12 straight from seed to get them to show sex as soon as possible. When they show sex you can weed out the males and then switch the light to 24/0 or 18/6 to allow the remaining females to revert back to vegetative growth for a few weeks. During these weeks you can train the branches into the screen all you want and then once again switch back to 12/12 when you feel you've filled the screen enough. This way you can weed out the males early and then put the plants you know are female into vegetative growth for awhile so they can fill up the screen before really flowering. Its basicly like revegging but without ever chopping down the plant.

The last consideration when ScrOGing from seed is that you'll probably need a few more inches of space underneath the screen than you would with clones. I think for clones one generally uses 10 or 12" of space underneath the screen, as where you should try and plan for 14" or so when ScrOGing from seed if I remember correctly. Either that or you could just LST and ScrOG at the same time to keep height super low.

Anyway, food for thought.

09-12-2006, 08:51 AM

yes its possible its just more risky and I dont have room/time to establish a mom and then have an area for her and then take clones from her. I plan on germing 5 or so seeds and flowering them from 12/12 till they show sex throw out males and hopefully ill have two females and if I have more Im going to give the excess to my friend.

bounty29 · 09-12-2006, 06:56 PM

Creeptic's Sour Diesel IBL SCROG - From Seed

250w HPS, ended up with two females, harvested 6.5oz

You can do it from seed, it's just a little more work.

tngreen · 09-12-2006, 10:20 PM

thank you sooo much mr. micro, that was a huge help! looks like ill be going swc and the other info is exactly what i needed also! i dont have space to have a mom either so goin straight from seed is what i was planning. im here daily so the extra work shouldnt be a problem.

09-12-2006, 03:52 AM	#1
Reinhold Guest Posts: n/a	New grow some questions I have an area 2 1/2 h x 1 w x 3 d if that makes sense? pretty high right now but anyways its a old venting area in my floor thats no longer used and would make a perfect stealth grow. I was thinking two plants from seed 12/12 scrog and I have a 70 watt hps and doing it swc. Now I dont have an area for mothers so I cant veg a mom to take clones and I cant plant a seed directly into the reservoir or can I? so I was wondering if itd be cool to raise them from soil for a little bit until pretty well established them transfer them into the reservoir? Even if its possilbe to put a seed directly in there I dont have it all set up but I have to put the seeds in something cause we already germed em lol dumb I know. Yeah thanks for the help tho.
	Quote

09-12-2006, 04:46 AM	#2
Mr_Micro Orbital Jellyfish for the Flying Saucer Men Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 353	In all the DWC and SWC grows I've done (4 total now) I always germed the seeds in a paper towel and then put them straight in the SWC/DWC unit. I filled the net cups up most of the way with hydrotron rocks (the orange expanded clay pellets) and then placed a small rockwool cube in the net cup and filled in the sides of the cup around the cube with more hydrotron. That way you can just fill the res almost to the top (so that about 1/3 or so of the net cups are submerged in water) and then plant your germinated seed in the little hole in the top of the rockwool cube. The hydrotron rocks will wick up the water and transfer it into the rockwool cube to keep your seedlings well hydrated. The downside of this is that rockwool cubes arn't exactly PH neutral and should be soaked in PH balanced water for a day or so before you use them. And since your short on time that might be a bit of a problem. But in all honesty, only once did I soak my rockwool cubes before using them and I never really had a problem with em. These days though I'm using the same SWC planting method for the seedlings, but using those nice organic Rapid Rooter plugs instead of rockwool cubes. They're pre-balanced to a good PH and don't require the pre-soak that rockwool does, plus they're pretty cheap and all my plants have loved em. They wick up water from the hydrotron quite well but seem to hold a lot more air than rockwool does, which is also very good for your young seedlings. So yeah, basicly, if you can find Rapid Rooter plugs at your local hydro shop than I recommend using them in conjunction with hydrotron rocks in your SWC system. They're usually around $15 for a bag of 50 or so I think. But if you can't find Rapid Rooter plugs then using a small rockwool cube with your hydrotron rocks is probably the next best option. Last edited by Mr_Micro; 09-12-2006 at 04:49 AM..
	Quote

09-12-2006, 05:35 AM	#3
tngreen Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,405	either of yall have a link with the differences between dwc and swc? i was going to do dwc but height is limited for me so this swc might be a better alt.
	Quote

09-12-2006, 05:44 AM	#4
Hail Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: In a van down by the river Posts: 108	Hmm, I've never heard of anyone doing a SCROG with plants grown from seed then screen. Only clones. Anyone here done that? Good luck on your grow by the way.
	Quote

09-12-2006, 07:27 AM	#6
Hail Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: In a van down by the river Posts: 108	It would work fine if you were growing fem seeds. But it's alot better to grow a healthy mom, take some clones then SCROG the toughest looking ones. Some people do a SOG style grow kind of like that, I remember some forum a guy got Easy Bud from Female Seeds and switched to 12/12 right after they popped. He had 4 seedlings which stayed very short but got about a ounce off each plant, 7.5 weeks from seed-harvest packing some fairly potent herb.. Beats the shit outta' Lowryder eh?
	Quote

09-12-2006, 07:41 AM	#7
Mr_Micro Orbital Jellyfish for the Flying Saucer Men Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 353	I think I might be able to field a couple of questions here... Tngreen, the only difference between DWC and SWC is the reservoir size. DWC = Deep Water Culture SWC = Shallow Water Culture Functionally speaking they work exactly the same. Take a rubbermaid tub of whatever size you choose and cut some holes into the lid for some net pots to hang through, throw in your net pots with hydrotron, fill up the tub with PH balanced water with the nutrients of your choice, throw in an airstone or two, and your ready to grow. The big difference is that with DWC you might use a 6 or 10 gallon tub for lots of plants, with SWC you'd probably only be using a 1 or 2 gallon tub for one or two plants. Also, with SWC your going to be topping off your reservoir every few days (sometimes as often as once a day during later stages of growth) and your PH will be far less stable. Most of the time you'll have to re-balance the PH every day or every other day. Also, I have seen people ScrOG from seed a many times before back on OG. Most of the time they used feminized seeds to help insure female plants but I do recall seeing two or three occasions in which it was done with regular non-feminized seeds. The idea was to induce flowering at 2 or 3 inches (or straight from seed) so that by the time the plants grow to almost reach the screen they have already shown sex. The males are removed and the plant continues to stretch and grow for another week or two before vegetative growth stops and the plant goes into full flowering. It is during that one or two week period that the stems are carefully bent and woven into the screen for ScrOGing. Another option for scrogging from seed is to put the plants into 12/12 straight from seed to get them to show sex as soon as possible. When they show sex you can weed out the males and then switch the light to 24/0 or 18/6 to allow the remaining females to revert back to vegetative growth for a few weeks. During these weeks you can train the branches into the screen all you want and then once again switch back to 12/12 when you feel you've filled the screen enough. This way you can weed out the males early and then put the plants you know are female into vegetative growth for awhile so they can fill up the screen before really flowering. Its basicly like revegging but without ever chopping down the plant. The last consideration when ScrOGing from seed is that you'll probably need a few more inches of space underneath the screen than you would with clones. I think for clones one generally uses 10 or 12" of space underneath the screen, as where you should try and plan for 14" or so when ScrOGing from seed if I remember correctly. Either that or you could just LST and ScrOG at the same time to keep height super low. Anyway, food for thought.
	Quote

09-12-2006, 08:51 AM	#8
Reinhold Guest Posts: n/a	yes its possible its just more risky and I dont have room/time to establish a mom and then have an area for her and then take clones from her. I plan on germing 5 or so seeds and flowering them from 12/12 till they show sex throw out males and hopefully ill have two females and if I have more Im going to give the excess to my friend.
	Quote

09-12-2006, 06:56 PM	#9
bounty29 Custom User Title Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,252	Creeptic's Sour Diesel IBL SCROG - From Seed 250w HPS, ended up with two females, harvested 6.5oz You can do it from seed, it's just a little more work.
	Quote

09-12-2006, 10:20 PM	#10
tngreen Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,405	thank you sooo much mr. micro, that was a huge help! looks like ill be going swc and the other info is exactly what i needed also! i dont have space to have a mom either so goin straight from seed is what i was planning. im here daily so the extra work shouldnt be a problem.
	Quote