Register ICMag Forum Menu Features Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
You are viewing our:
in:
Forums > Marijuana Growing > Marijuana Strains and Breeding > F3 vs Bx2

Thread Title Search
Click for Cannapot - buy cannabis seeds
Post Reply
F3 vs Bx2 Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-12-2019, 10:07 PM #1
flyontoast
Newbie

Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: PNW, Canada
Posts: 25
flyontoast is on a distinguished road
F3 vs Bx2

If a breeder/seed company is offering both an F3 and a Bx2 of the same strain, what would be the point of that?


Am I correct in saying:
F3: means it's 3 generations, breeding a F2 male with an F2 female, then an F3 female with an F3 male.
Bx2: means you took an F1 male or female and back-crossed with with the preferred parents, and then took that new generations and back crossed with again with a parent?


So they are both 3 generations, but presumably the Bx2 has more characteristics one of the original parents/clone, whereas the F3 is just breeding down a line into a successive generations which could have very different characteristics than the original clones/parents?
If that is the case, why not completely rename the F3 strain since it probably won't be that similar to the Bx2 strain? As a consumer that might like the "clone only" parent, how are we to make an informed decision?



Basically I'm getting confused by marketing vs good breeding practices.
flyontoast is offline Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 01-12-2019, 11:38 PM #2
jaypopnseeds
Member

Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 77
jaypopnseeds has a spectacular aura aboutjaypopnseeds has a spectacular aura aboutjaypopnseeds has a spectacular aura aboutjaypopnseeds has a spectacular aura about
Some clarification: F3s are the resulting of crossing F2s. Crossing F3s results in F4s.

Bx are usually done in an effort to replicate a clone only in seed form. Ideally, a male most closely resembling the clone is chosen, and each generation gets it closer to the original clone.

Filial generation crosses can be used for a multitude of different reasons. F2s will unlock recessive phenotypes absent in the F1 generation. Further crossing is done to select for distinct traits, or to create inbred lines with less phenotypic variation. Filial crosses can also vary wildly depending upon which parents are selected. F3s produced with different parents could look entirely different from each other.

Should bx2 and F3s be named differently? Yes. And they are. One is called Strain Bx2 and the other is called Strain F3. The bx2 and F3 designations are good enough indicators that the crosses are different from each other. It also has the benefit of clarifying how the crosses are related, as opposed to just calling the backcross X and the F3 Y, which tells people nothing.
jaypopnseeds is offline Quote


3 members found this post helpful.
Old 01-13-2019, 02:04 AM #3
RoyalFlush
Member

RoyalFlush's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: with Alice in Wonderland
Posts: 138
RoyalFlush has a spectacular aura aboutRoyalFlush has a spectacular aura aboutRoyalFlush has a spectacular aura aboutRoyalFlush has a spectacular aura about
.
__________________
"Landscape company over here, if anybody's wondering what all the weed talk is." —Bubbles

Last edited by RoyalFlush; 01-13-2019 at 06:09 PM..
RoyalFlush is offline Quote


Old 01-13-2019, 07:01 PM #4
meizzwang
Member

Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 312
meizzwang is just really nicemeizzwang is just really nicemeizzwang is just really nicemeizzwang is just really nicemeizzwang is just really nicemeizzwang is just really nicemeizzwang is just really nicemeizzwang is just really nicemeizzwang is just really nicemeizzwang is just really nicemeizzwang is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyontoast View Post
If a breeder/seed company is offering both an F3 and a Bx2 of the same strain, what would be the point of that?
In your case, only the breeder and people who have grown out both the BX2 and F3's will know which is better. In my opinion, the breeder is just trying to make their inventory look larger using this tactic. A good breeder will only release the best of their line, not offer a gamble on 2 different versions of the same thing.




There's so many complicated scenarios by which back crosses can be made, and I'm surprised the weed word hasn't invented even more complicated abbreviations to distinguish them. Correct me of I'm wrong, but they never taught us about S1, Bx1, etc. in college level botany classes, so I'm assuming these terms were invented by the weed industry. Perhaps the high dollar value of the seeds forced marketing experts to devise more ways to convince buyers to purchase their seeds.

The weed industry in general is so dishonest, I'm not sure how useful this information is in practice. Theoretically, if everyone told the truth, then such details are a goldmine, but a single lie about the origin of a particular strain, seed batch, or clone can render these details useless.

Last edited by meizzwang; 01-14-2019 at 01:10 AM..
meizzwang is offline Quote


Old 01-13-2019, 07:07 PM #5
HalfArsedFarmer
Member

Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: location,location
Posts: 77
HalfArsedFarmer has a spectacular aura aboutHalfArsedFarmer has a spectacular aura aboutHalfArsedFarmer has a spectacular aura aboutHalfArsedFarmer has a spectacular aura about
I could be wrong but I heard that fruit & veg guys have been making S1 for years.
HalfArsedFarmer is offline Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 01-13-2019, 09:10 PM #6
MJPassion
Observer

MJPassion's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: uni-verse
Posts: 6,722
MJPassion has a reputation beyond reputeMJPassion has a reputation beyond reputeMJPassion has a reputation beyond reputeMJPassion has a reputation beyond reputeMJPassion has a reputation beyond reputeMJPassion has a reputation beyond reputeMJPassion has a reputation beyond reputeMJPassion has a reputation beyond reputeMJPassion has a reputation beyond reputeMJPassion has a reputation beyond reputeMJPassion has a reputation beyond repute
F1 is the original cross. F2 is bred by crossing F1 x F1. F3 is bred by crossing F2 x F2.
F3 & bx2 have the same amount of steps but they're not the same if only due to different parent inputs.

The purpose of a back cross can be used two fold...
A) to determine zygosity of a parent.
B) to attempt to stabilize a particular set of characteristics into a line for future plans.

It isn't possible to produce a stabilized line from a heterozygous recurrent parent using bx methods.
MJPassion is offline Quote


2 members found this post helpful.
Old 01-13-2019, 09:24 PM #7
dank.frank
ef.yu.se.ka.e.em


dank.frank's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: hiding in plain sight
Posts: 10,480
dank.frank is a survivordank.frank is a survivordank.frank is a survivordank.frank is a survivordank.frank is a survivordank.frank is a survivordank.frank is a survivordank.frank is a survivordank.frank is a survivordank.frank is a survivordank.frank is a survivor
The only purpose for a back cross is to restore genetic variability from a single parent after having bottlenecked the line for the purpose of isolating a specific trait. Once isolated, the parent plant is reintroduced to restore the traits lost through inbreeding.

Back crossing does NOT make a line more stable or more like the mother. It only compounds genetic frequency for the appearance of given traits.



dank.Frank
__________________
Bunch of fake ass neo-capitalists masquerading as counter
culture cannabis enthusiasts
with their thinly veiled
self-justifications catering to the morally
ambiguous for the sake of the
ALL MIGHTY DOLLAR
dank.frank is online now Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 01-13-2019, 10:49 PM #8
jaypopnseeds
Member

Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 77
jaypopnseeds has a spectacular aura aboutjaypopnseeds has a spectacular aura aboutjaypopnseeds has a spectacular aura aboutjaypopnseeds has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by meizzwang View Post
In your case, only the breeder and people who have grown out both the BX2 and F3's will know which is better. In my opinion, the breeder is just trying to make their inventory look larger using this tactic. A good breeder will only release the best of their line, not offer a gamble on 2 different versions of the same thing.


All BX2's are F3's, but not all F3's are BX2's.
Example of F3 =BX2 : Say you have GG4 clone only (which is an F1 or cross between two different hybrids) and you create feminized pollen from it and self it, the resulting seeds are BX1. Take those BX1 seeds, flower them, and then pollinate them to the GG4 clone only mother plant (or vice versa), those resulting seeds are BX2. They're also F3 seeds because they have been selfed twice since the F1 generation.

Example where F3 isn't BX2:say you have GG4 clone only and Josey Wales hypothetically also released siblings of GG4 clone only. both individuals are F1 hybrids (cross between 2 genetically different hybrids). Cross GG4 clone only with the sibling, and you have F2 seeds. Grow out the F2 and cross a male and female plant from this seed batch together, and the resulting offspring are F3. In this case, you never crossed any offspring to any of their original parents, so there's no back crossing involved.

There's so many complicated scenarios by which back crosses can be made, and I'm surprised the weed word hasn't invented even more complicated abbreviations to distinguish them. Correct me of I'm wrong, but they never taught us about S1, Bx1, etc. in college level botany classes, so I'm assuming these terms were invented by the weed industry. Perhaps the high dollar value of the seeds forced marketing experts to devise more ways to convince buyers to purchase their seeds.

The weed industry in general is so dishonest, I'm not sure how useful this information is in practice. Theoretically, if everyone told the truth, then such details are a goldmine, but a single lie about the origin of a particular strain, seed batch, or clone can render these details useless.
There is so much that is incorrect in this post. People should just ignore it.
jaypopnseeds is offline Quote


Old 01-13-2019, 10:54 PM #9
jaypopnseeds
Member

Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 77
jaypopnseeds has a spectacular aura aboutjaypopnseeds has a spectacular aura aboutjaypopnseeds has a spectacular aura aboutjaypopnseeds has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by dank.frank View Post
The only purpose for a back cross is to restore genetic variability from a single parent after having bottlenecked the line for the purpose of isolating a specific trait. Once isolated, the parent plant is reintroduced to restore the traits lost through inbreeding.

Back crossing does NOT make a line more stable or more like the mother. It only compounds genetic frequency for the appearance of given traits.



dank.Frank
Strain 1 x Strain 2 = F1 which are 50% Strain 1.

Strain 1 x F1 = Bx1 which are 75% Strain 1.

Strain 1 x Bx1 = Bx2 which are 87.5% Strain 1.

As you continue to backcross across further generations, more and more of the genetic makeup is coming from that single parent. Which will result in the offspring being closer and closer to that parent.
jaypopnseeds is offline Quote


Old 01-14-2019, 01:05 AM #10
meizzwang
Member

Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 312
meizzwang is just really nicemeizzwang is just really nicemeizzwang is just really nicemeizzwang is just really nicemeizzwang is just really nicemeizzwang is just really nicemeizzwang is just really nicemeizzwang is just really nicemeizzwang is just really nicemeizzwang is just really nicemeizzwang is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaypopnseeds View Post
There is so much that is incorrect in this post. People should just ignore it.
I stand corrected and edited the post as such. I'm still intrigued by your comment and surprised more haven't been made:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dank.frank View Post
The only purpose for a back cross is to restore genetic variability from a single parent after having bottlenecked the line for the purpose of isolating a specific trait.
Definition of Backcross:
"Backcrossing is a crossing of a hybrid with one of its parents or an individual genetically similar to its parent, in order to achieve offspring with a genetic identity which is closer to that of the parent."
meizzwang is offline Quote


Post Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:15 AM.




This site is for educational and entertainment purposes only.
You must be of legal age to view ICmag and participate here.
All postings are the responsibility of their authors.
Powered by: vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.