[covert]

It seems a shame there was some Dutch admixture but it seems to have gotten there as a kind of life raft that saved it from extinguishing. Maybe a Dutch male to get some hard won seeds. Who knows what it was but it's evolution baby. Good or bad matters not, survival matters. Which is good and which is bad can't always be known in advance where the underlying environment can change. True for plants and humans in the real physical world. Even truer for humans in the more abstract realm of human ethics.

[geneva_sativa]

I remember people reporting to look to CBG for longer flowering, exceptional examples, wish we had more presence for product Q & A from them.

Havent tried Dr Greenthumbs Panama Red. . . have tried his Kashmiri Resin Factory, Swazi, and few others almost 15 years ago.

[yesum]

No telling when Charlie will be back or if at all. CBG is kind of dead as of now. ACE carries on the lines.

Can you tell anything on the Greenthumb strains you ran?

[geneva_sativa]

His Kashmiri that was initially released was some of my favorite smoke to this day and the Endless Sky from that time was very nice smoke too . . . the other 2 were not super outstanding for me.

But he used to have Malawi, Nepalese, Golden Haze, and several others. . . this was before he offered fems and S1

Look forward to hear how the Panama does for you.

[Emil Muzz]

Over at Phylos the Ace Panama has no relations, and its genetic novelty rating is highly uncommon:

https://testing.phylosbioscience.com...otype/z810v1g7

Just because one cultivar smells like a another doesn't mean they are related.

[OakyJoe]

Cannabiogen - Panama
100% sativa hybrid which uses 3 Panaman lines from different ages and sources inbred for 7 generations.

Panama »»» Panama F7

vs

ACE Seeds - Panama
Our Panama combines some different red sativas from Panama and Colombia

Panama »»» Panama x Colombia

[Mustafunk]

Mate, I'd be definitely curious on Dr Gt's Panama Red, I've seen a nice review on Rollitup forum, the guy chopped em at 95-100 days! I'm wondering about the source from the Panama Red that Breeder's Choice Organisation used to sell as well, this one also has great reviews along with their Colombian Black.

I think you are right about your perceptions on the Panama hybrid, since CBG's Panama was created as a three way hybrid made from Vibes Co/Green Grocer's Panama Red 1974, another modern compact and probably hybridized Green Panama plus a third Punto Rojo Colombian so they are totally different animals.

The Panama hybrid being offered nowadays changed a bit along the years and no longer show the wispy phenos often found on the the first Panama hybrids released by CBG, despite at the time some compact looking plants were used on it (probably some of those could have been hybridized already and most compact, resinous and fast phenos were favored). It went from 14+ weeks to 10-11 and such a compact structure. So it's far from being a traditional Caribbean heirloom sativa, more like a commercial hybrid from those developed for indoor and northern grows. This could make it even more attractive for certain growers though.

Old CBG's Panama at 17 weeks by Budular:



CBG Panama, 85 days by JGL and still plenty of white hairs:



It seems most companies at some point realize people prefer faster flowering and more productive plants so they outcross their genetics in order to make them "more commercial" and never look back. After all not everyone is willing to grow 14+ week plants.

On the other hand, smell can give great hints about a plant, since most genetic families share the same chemotype... that's why Diesel family smells distinctive, so do the Blue family or the Haze hybrids. I've noticed most Caribbean landraces share a similar terpene fingerprint, I've found this same fingerprints on both Colombians, Panama, Jamaican Lambsbread, oldschool Mexicans and also the Hazes. Obviously because they all may have common genetic ancestors. An educated nose can definitely disclose interesting information, just like a chromatographer does when you compare chemotypes.

Originally Posted by bestothebest

Dr Gt is not very trustworthy. I'd stick with ace and look through more phenos.

Maybe he has that reputation but on the other hand his Malawi Gold was one of the best versions ever released to the market... a true wild Malawi ganja that even felt superior to the versions from both Afropips and African Seeds. Afropips went down the road and was definitely selling some hybridized africans produced in the UK after some time, plants with compact structures and thick buds like some Nigerian I've seen or the purple Durban Poison we've recently seen here from Dave Coulier's DP reproduction (from an original Afropips pack):





So my guess is that they started over import P1 stock from Africa and when they run out of stocks, they started reproducing or outcrossing them in UK.

On the other hand, ACE's aren't exactly good representations of both Malawi or Panama cultivars, many people feels the Malawi must have been hybridized somehow, as many people pointed out because of its compact, productive, frosty, purplish and sedating characteristics... and their Panama derives from the older stocks created by Charlie/CBG with their own twist.

Dr GT's Malawi:



Besides Dr GT was selling mostly commercial based hybrids in order to get a living (because of the demand too), I was told by a Canadian guy who used to be his neighbourgh that he loved smoking sativas and wished he could sell those instead. He was also the originator of the renowned Canadian Oaxacan 1978 clone, after he travelled to Mexico and brough a bunch of seeds. He created the Niagara strain too with that one. Hear good stuff about Dr GT's Swazi too. Both were imported seeds actually.

Never grew his hybrids but aren't companies from nowadays basing all their catalogues on the same kind of chucking and selfing of clones?

Vibes.

[geneva_sativa]

I should clarify also. . . the Swazi I had from Dr GT was the Early Swazi Skunk IIRC. . . not the regular Swazi he had. . . and it was grown in partial shade, so wasn't best representation of it, am sure

[Gypsy Nirvana]

Quote Mustafunk: ''On the other hand, ACE's aren't exactly good representations of both Malawi or Panama cultivars, many people feels the Malawi must have been hybridized somehow, as many people pointed out because of its compact, productive, frosty, purplish and sedating characteristics... and their Panama derives from the older stocks created by Charlie/CBG with their own twist.''

How do you and 'Many People' know that ACE Malawi or Panama aren't exactly good representations of cultivars from those nations? Have you been to Panama and Malawi and sampled all the various types of cannabis available to have a clue?....I think not. So all this looks like is you trying to denigrate a breeder/seed seller, and I see this often when you post, particularly about ACE, is it because you have some sort of long standing grudge against that company, because it surely looks like it.

[stoney917]

I Love pred one of my all time favs my 70s 1%cut is a real game changer lifetime keeper , I don't know about dr green thumb except what I hear heard throughout the years so have no opinion but will say his pic looks correct exactly like mine. Now I grew a bunch of ace panama, breeders packs etc, I got some nice plants good smoke but different, a lot of them had the panama funk n taste in them at different levels but the high on most was nothing like a South American sativa and the plants grew And finished very quick, I would definitely recommend them to anyone who wants a South American sativa type but won't put in the time work love to make it to the finish line with the real. Most ppl won't care or know better and be happy as fuk with it. I wonder how many of today's growers n smokers even seen or smoked a true pure sativa .... sumthin about the time put in gives ya unique effects you just aren't gonna get in what's being considered sativa today...
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