[StickyHands]

Hi All,

Im really confused on this, and hoping its something i overlooked and really simple. Been out the game for a few years now, so maybe I forgot or have no knowledge on something that can cause this.

Ive had a few strains which have been around in our circle for a few years now. Recently, I was unwell, and could not grow.
I am now completing my first run in a few years, and something has changed. The donor plants were not in the best condition (skinny 5ft plants), so I took cuts, nursed the cuts to health, then flowered them.
The donor plants have not been flowered in at least 2-3 years, so they basically lived in veg for a few years whilst I was unwell.

The ladies are not emitting their usual smell, and some of the shape characteristics of the bud have changed too.
One lady, which smelled of pure lemons has now gone , replaced with a generic smell, that doesnt have any lemon edge to it.
Trichome levels seems to have taken a drastic turn, and seems like hardly any trichome production.

Factors I changed, that could have direct influence:

1/ Nutes. I used really old nutes. I mean like 3+years old...lol
Being unwell, I didnt know if I would be well enough to complete the grow, so I just used the old nutes I had. During Veg, and flower, no tip burn, and seemed to work ok as plants grew normally as far as I could see. Only at week 8 flower have i got a touch of tip burn, but that was at my highest ec feed of 1.65ec , which is their last feed, so water only for next two weeks.

2/ The only new thing I added to my growing way was the addition of beneficial bacteria and also that tricoderma stuff (in veg only).The cuts seemed to love the addition of both, shooting really thick healthy fuzzy white roots, which I havent seen for some time.

So I took clones of donor plants, and once flowered, the plants smell different, and all the plants seem to have a more generic look about them, whereas before , each strain had its own more defined characteristics making each easily recognizable. Hope that makes sense, lol

here is some pics

clones were taken from plants on right. THey were 5ft tall and sickly looking. So i chopped them down and got cuts from them.




In veg, the clones seemed to be happy and thriving . Lovely root growth, and above soil growth daily.


In flower, less trichomes on plants, and rubbing any of the plants seem to release a really diluted version of their original smell. Its more a generic smell, rather than strain dependant smell, if that makes sense lol

What can cause such a drastic change in the smell and overall characteristics of the clone? Im growing in the same environment as I used to use. RH and temps have been monitored, and kept in normal ranges. Nothing strange there imo. Only thing I can think of, is maybe the 3+years old nutes. The reason I thought the nutes were ok is when they started getting it, they seemed to respond positively, with no signs of any major deficiencies.
Perhaps the smell will return once dried and cured?

I dont mind this crop not being what I thought it would be. I'm just happy to be able to grow again. Now I want to work out if its worth trying another run of these cuts, or if its time to move on, and start by seed again.

Thanks for your time and thanks for reading my post.
Any input is appreciated. Positive or negative, any help appreciated.

Have a great day!

[Dropped Cat]

Maybe you just suck, lol

It's the nutes and possibly the medium, also the cuts
taken from a potentially less than healthy mum, but
seems unlikely given how lush the current grow looks.

Pry open that dusty bin you call a wallet and buy some
fresh chemistry.

Run some new cuts along with some seed stock and compare.

Honestly though, looks good to me.

[StickyHands]

thanks for response mate.

Will deffo try new nutes next time. Gonna have to pry open the ol wallet soon! lol

As a side experiment, my friend flowered some of the clones out too, and he got smaller buds showing the same characteristics. Lack of smell, less trichome etc. etc. very generic smell.

So with my old nutes, and some new nutes, the clones have acted the same. This makes me feel the food hasnt had the drastic effect on the genetics.

What I have found out after chatting to the person who kept them for me whilst I was ill, is that they were fed only water for more than a year.
the person is not a grower, and used to go to the mini tent and give water whenever they would remember.lol.was told many times they were totally shriveled up, but once watered, would always bounce back.

Im thinking the 1 year of water only veg has affected them genetically. IS this even possible? Only positive is they never had any type of pests etc...

Can 1 year+ of watering only, cause some type of damage, which cannot be fixed, genetically?

I was hoping if clones were taken, and nursed back to health and vigour, they would display all their previous characteristics, including trichome production and smell.

Thanks for looking, and have a great weekend.

Update. - Forgot to mention, i've changed the bulb from HPS to MH for last two weeks of flowering.

[NEED 4 SEED]

Originally Posted by StickyHands

Update. - Forgot to mention, i've changed the bulb from HPS to MH for last two weeks of flowering.

Why did you do that? Also, after a long break you could have become a little insensitive to the plants needs. People forget lots of things when not confronted every day. All the situation doesn't sound too nice with plants not getting real care for over a year. So i tend to think you are not totally committed to the grow. There could be pests you overlook, for instance. Wrong watering. Lazy behaviour. Sorry, mate. But the genetics won't change that way and the plants should be good if treated well. Also , how sure are you that the mother plants are the same? Could it be your friend secretly exchanged them with different stuff because he had fucked it up? This whole situation stinks, if you ask me...

[dank.frank]

Originally Posted by StickyHands

Can 1 year+ of watering only, cause some type of damage, which cannot be fixed, genetically?

In short. No. That doesn't mean that the plants haven't suffered and aren't firing on all cylinders, so to speak. Get them truly healthy again. Outdoors in real sunshine or a tissue culture propagation have been credited for restoring what people generally lump together as lost vigor, etc.



dank.Frank

[djimb]

There are those who might argue that epigenetics might play a role in the decline of your plants, but I don't know enough about it to go into any detail. Besides, there are already plenty of threads on the topics of clonal variation, epigenetics, and the fable of genetic drift.

In my entirely unscientific opinion, based on what I've read in those threads, you might be able to restore vigor through successive clonal generations (taking healthy clones of healthy clones, etc.). If tissue culture is within your means, that would probably be the most effective method, since you might just be dealing with an unseen viral load or something similar, and you could start new clones from a tiny piece of sterilized, disease free plant matter (again, my knowledge on this point is insufficient to go into detail).

Most likely, everyone else is right. It's probably a difference in your environment: nutes, old bulbs, your game isn't tight anymore, etc. Still l, it Doesn't hurt to hedge your bets. Maybe try again with fewer clones of your old plants and a few new strains from seed. You might be able to revive the plants you have, and you might be able to find something new that you really like.

Glad you're well!

[Easy7]

Honestly sounds like your friend switched the mother plant on you. Perhaps they made seeds while in their care and created a new mom that isn't as good.

Genetically the mother shouldn't change. There is no real other explanation for such a drastic difference.

I can go to hell and back and my DNA will not change. Perhaps some cells will have damaged dna, but certainly not all of my dna.

[blahplunger]

Either he switched your plants or your temps are too high.If they were healthy all the way through the grow,its one of those.The room temperature can be within range but if your buds are too close to the light,that will give you shitty buds.