Preserving flavour, what extraction method is best?

anasrzi · Dec 29, 2017

I'm going to go down the Jump absolute route for my next foray into the extraction world but Ive read over on a few forums that by doing so I'm damaging/destroying terps using this method? If that's the case Id be interested to know your thoughts on which extraction method keeps these valuable terps intact? Considering getting a closed column system with a dry ice jacket to try and keep everything pristine.

I have a sweet dnail setup using a sapphire dish so I'm all about the flavour, I get good flavour from my QWET I'd did a while back but it's running low so it's about time to do another run asap.

Just so I'm clear I grow outdoors every summer and refine my trim and air buds into bubble first (fresh frozen) then melt into oil using either butane or ethanol. This might well change if/when I get into a closed loop extracting as I can process it more directly, retaining terps lost by making bubble.

All thoughts and expertise welome

.

Gray Wolf · Dec 29, 2017

The most aromatic ones are typically extracted with LPG, because it is the easiest solvent to get rid of, due to its low boiling point.

anasrzi · Dec 29, 2017

How does one implement a LPG extraction @gray wolf ? id be very interested to know more about that as LPG is cheap and easy to get hold of for me at least.

Would you still need to winterize and vacuum degas the end product?

Ringodoggie · Dec 29, 2017

I don't do solvent extraction but I can't imagine any solvent extraction being even close to rosin. The solvents (depending on which you use) have to change the flavor and odor on a major scale.

Sorry it's JMO since I have only done solvent extracts a few times but logic dictates here IMO. Low temp rosin.

mushroombrew · Dec 29, 2017

Yes I agree with the Wolf BHO seems to have better terps.

I do not like the use of solvents personally. But there is your answer.

I recommend you do some reading online. The extract subject is vast. Many ways of reaching the same goals.

How much money you have to spend on equipment and how much product you intend to process; will decide your method.

anasrzi · Dec 29, 2017

Thanks for the response guys gives me reasons to cheerful. I have tried making rosin and for small amount of bubble it works fine but processing larger amounts is going to be trickier hence why im looking to go down the chemical extraction route.

right now Ive spent zero on equipment but your right mushroom brew id have to spend a awful lot to get setup.

Some low temp hair straighteners and my rosin pouches might be a better plan?

Mikell · Dec 29, 2017

How much bubble? I wouldn't put more than 2g wrapped in filtres into a straightener.

anasrzi · Dec 29, 2017

half a gram to a full gram per extraction Mikell, just checking out straighteners now

Gray Wolf · Dec 29, 2017

anasrzi said:
How does one implement a LPG extraction @gray wolf ? id be very interested to know more about that as LPG is cheap and easy to get hold of for me at least.

Would you still need to winterize and vacuum degas the end product?

To do it right and achieve optimum results is expensive. It would include a closed loop system and a vacuum chamber/oven to finish in.

It also has to be done at subzero temperatures to limit plant wax pickup, so winterizing isn't necessary.

QWET is less aromatic, but still tasty and less expensive to get into.

Rosin also works, but unless done with kif, also has plant waxes.

Hash yield is typically only around 50% until it starts to green, so if you do it with kif, your final concentrate yield is far lower.

anasrzi · Dec 29, 2017

So am I right In thinking that using a dry ice jacket when using a open blast column extraction tube it's doing similar things to sub zero propane, as in it's keeping it that cold it's freezing the majority of wax in place?

Don't mind spending on being able to process the very best if it needs to be.

And when your talking subzero temps are we talking below what a freezer can do, so dry ice will be needed for extractions.

Thanks again guys for all the knowledge

.

WaterFarmFan · Dec 29, 2017

If you are new to solvent extraction, I would suggest starting with ethanol. The distillation glassware is useful for many things and the purging equipment is standard for most. It teaches you the basics of physical chemistry that could save your life if advancing to pressured explosive gases (LPG, Butane, etc.) in open blasting or closed loop.

WaterFarmFan · Dec 29, 2017

As to your OP, it is not the solvents ability to extract terpenes and flavonoids, but the process's ability to keep these compounds while purging the solvent. GW noted that LPG is the easiest to purge, thus retains more. However, not all solvents extract all compounds equally, and gas processes under high pressure could alter the volitile compounds overall profile.

Skinning cats and all, below is how I am personally trying to answer your question. Basic premise to extract terpenes during drying process, so as not to lose them during purge. I then make shatter with dried flower material using -50C ethanol, and then add back terpenes to shatter at the end to create a full spectrum extract. It is a pain in the ass, but the results to date have been spectacular. I change something every time that I do a run to refine process while optimizing terpene yield numbers.

WaterFarmFan said:
Hehe, sorry. Here is a slightly outdated overview. I added a second Graham condenser with takeoff and receiving flask in parallel, and also added the pid controlled heated nitrogen backfill.

My basic process for terpene extraction is:

1. Using cryogenic gloves and wide mouth dewar, freeze fresh flowers in liquid nitrogen with canisters for 5-10 minutes.
2. Pulverize flowers with stainless pestle (and cryo glove) in a 2 piece stainless honey sieve over 9" stainless bowl.
3. Separate trichomes (with a small amount of flower material that falls through 600 micron sieve screen) in collection bowl from the stems (top sieve) and flower material (bottom seive) in a different bowl.
4. Pour additional LN2 in trichome bowl and place bowl into vacuum oven with vacuum pump running and vacuum needle valve open. Stainless bowl sits on a ~15 pound 1.5" thick (6"x9") block of PTFE in vacuum oven. I don't latch oven door until 7cfm pump seals vacuum in oven due to ln2 evaporating to n2 at 700 times its liquid volume. The PTFE block has amazing heat absorption properties and will keep the stainless bowl cool long after the oven temperatures start to rise.
5. For first 2 hours, perform low temp sublimation at full vacuum.
6. Next 1 hour, backfill with N2 to ~2 inHg and raise temps in the oven to 170F (to evaporate terpenes that have condensed in oven on cold places like the stainless bowl and PTFE block from #5), and after reaching temp, do a very slow collection increasing ~1 inHg per 2-3 seconds until full vacuum.
7. Next 4-5 hours, I raise my vacuum oven temps to 217F and every 15-20 minutes perform various N2 backfills, slow collections and also use a slow bleed of N2 with vacuum valve open. After a full collection (from ~2 inHg to max vacuum), I will take the bowl out and place on slab of dry ice to cool the material, and I do this a max of 2-3 times for this 4-5 hour part of the cycle. I will also place a chunk of dry ice on the PTFE slab, where the bowl sits, to provide residual cooling once process is restarted.
8. Carefully combine terpene and hydrosol mixtures from various collection points and add to separatory funnel and place into 2C fridge.
9. Rinse all glassware with warm distilled water, collect and separate as above.
10. Reassemble condensers and cold traps and repeat process for flower material. I have had better results processing the trichomes and flower material separately, think of it like trying to purge two slabs with different solvents at the same time.

I am still experimenting and finalizing an exact collection schedule and procedure. Will be creating a thread and sharing my findings soon.

WFF

SkyHighLer · Dec 29, 2017

"Preserving flavour, what extraction method is best?"

Probably rosin. Or a simple BHO nugg run that hasn't been over purged.

Problem with rosin is the >25 micron filtering, it allows particulate to pass through - you get goop on the nail at the end of the dab.

Whatman #1 general purpose filter paper (11 micron) is better than a couple of coffee filters or Whatman #4 (20-25 micron,) but not until I went down to 2.5 micron pore size, Whatman #5, did I stop seeing sludge on the nail. I only use 2.5 micron anymore. I tried 1.5 micron, but it was extremely slow, also what I found at a reasonable price was a hardened paper, and it didn't seal well.

Rosin is nice, but BHO is all I prefer to consume.

hash head · Jan 3, 2018

Rosin from freshly dried/frozen flowers is by far the most flavorful and easiest process I have tried.

PDX Dopesmoker · Jan 4, 2018

anasrzi said:
…Just so I'm clear I grow outdoors every summer and refine my trim and air buds into bubble first (fresh frozen) then melt into oil using either butane or ethanol. This might well change if/when I get into a closed loop extracting as I can process it more directly, retaining terps lost by making bubble.

All thoughts and expertise welome .

You're already doing the most important part correctly, separating all of those wonderful trichomes from all that excess plant matter before extracting really makes a huge difference on quality. You can make top quality stuff from lesser buds that way.
Dry sift pressed to rosin is my favorite, but water hash pressed to rosin will net you some strong & tasty material too. I've found that ice water hash extracted in Everclear gets to be a bit bland although it retains it's potency, dry sifted hash extracted in Everclear makes grade A oil.

Gray Wolf · Jan 4, 2018

anasrzi said:
So am I right In thinking that using a dry ice jacket when using a open blast column extraction tube it's doing similar things to sub zero propane, as in it's keeping it that cold it's freezing the majority of wax in place?

Don't mind spending on being able to process the very best if it needs to be.

And when your talking subzero temps are we talking below what a freezer can do, so dry ice will be needed for extractions.

Thanks again guys for all the knowledge .

It is doing similar things, though not as cold or effective. I'm talking -30 to -50C.

axle2u · Oct 20, 2018

what is the 'LPG" aycronom , grey wolfmiester ?

-axle robot

axle2u · Oct 20, 2018

this is a great topic for discussion,

very interesting

too bad there isn't more interest and response(s)

axle robot

aSilvrHaze · Oct 20, 2018

liquefied petroleum gas

axle2u · Oct 20, 2018

grey wolf, what is "LPG" acronym for ?

curious...
I don't recognize a lot of acronyms ....at times....lol

-axle robot

Preserving flavour, what extraction method is best?

New member

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.

New member

Well-known member

Active member

New member

Dipshit Know-Nothing

New member

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.

New member

Active member

Active member

Got me a stone bad Mana

Member

Active member

A Posse ad Esse. From Possibility to realization.

Member

Member

New member

Member