[Snook]

For years I've been sayin :
'they'll want to take the MMJ 'registered users' guns... sooner or later'.

and 'recreational' opens up a whole new avenue..

we need it off the cat 1 federal 'drug' list and on the cat 3 List ??? i hate callin it a drug.. if they knock it down to only cat 2, then we'd need a prescription from a doctor to get it from the drug store, like Valium or Oxis.. another layer of government control

EDIT: Oh! I do like the 'sit/smoke/gun in' idea.. Woodstock (1969) was like that, every one was high in the midst of many state police.. not one drug arrest.. but now, they'd single everyone out and break their balls sooner or later.. on some toll roads here in florida, theyve taken out the toll booths and when/after one goes thru that 'zone' they take your picture and send you a bill for the toll. I go one on my bike, pretty good pic too. My point? they can single each of out if they wanted to for any reason they want.. cant imagine how much up our asses they'll be in 20 years..

[trichrider]

this is such a bad precedent
there are other medical states with the lust for your firearms

seems it would violate 4th amendment protections too

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't form 4473 registration itself?

[clearheaded]

WOW that is nuts! although because of USA constitution I do not believe its a legal thing to do. however medical cannabis isnt legal either, but still think if they really wanted to fight it they could win. There isnt really a whole lot of hunting done in hawaii from my knowledge, exept wild pigs perhaps? so really no reaason to have a gun, but i am canadian and we usually dont shoot people.

they really just need to outlaw auto weapons, makes zero sense and would be able to stop these crazy mass killings. but never know when folks will have to rise up and take over the white house lol. good luck.

[moose eater]

Originally Posted by trichrider

this is such a bad precedent
there are other medical states with the lust for your firearms

seems it would violate 4th amendment protections too

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't form 4473 registration itself?

The NICS check goes through federal channels. The 4473 stays in the possession of the FFL dealer until, or if they close their business, at which time they are required to submit (what used to be hard-copy only, likely still is) to BATFE.

Specifically, there was verbage preventing the info on 4473s from being used for registration purposes, but even 35 years back, folks didn't trust it, and, since it wasn't required registration type paperwork, there were a number of FFL holders who, when they went out of business and submitted their paperwork for storage in what was then a huge Quonset on the East Coast, they somehow had frequent accidents.. A bit of spilled kerosene on the box of forms that inadvertently caught fire, and the boxes of semi-burned forms would be accompanied by a "Gee, we're sorry. One minute the box was by the wood stove, and the next.....Well..."

NOW, however, it's my understanding that due to (the cited reasons being) space, troublesome storage of hard-copy, etc., the surrendered 4473 forms are digitized, and it's been argued that this is a de facto registration. The feds say they're not using it for that, but then the feds have a history of saying LOTS of stuff, too.

Clear as mud, right?

[CaptainDankness]

Originally Posted by clearheaded

WOW that is nuts! although because of USA constitution I do not believe its a legal thing to do. however medical cannabis isnt legal either, but still think if they really wanted to fight it they could win. There isnt really a whole lot of hunting done in hawaii from my knowledge, exept wild pigs perhaps? so really no reaason to have a gun, but i am canadian and we usually dont shoot people.

they really just need to outlaw auto weapons, makes zero sense and would be able to stop these crazy mass killings. but never know when folks will have to rise up and take over the white house lol. good luck.

Forget the White House we need to take down the CIA, DEA, FBI, NSA, military industrial complex, Federal Reserve and the UN. If anything we need tanks and Apache helicopters.

Guns will just allow us to resist the powers that be like the Afghan people and the second amendment has nothing to do with hunting it's to keep us free and out of the grips of global empires like the British Empire in which we are now part of thanks to crooked politicians all the way back to Abraham Lincoln at the least.

Of course half the nation wants socialism cause they didn't learn from Germany's Socialist Workers Party better known as the Nazi Party. LMAO, Americans truly are stupid....

[positivity]

They have updated their stance since it was first brought up. The order to turn in your firearms won't be enforced on current gun permit holders. Future permits for MMJ card holders will be denied per Federal law

[armedoldhippy]

Originally Posted by Crusader Rabbit

Gun registrations prove to be very useful when a murder weapon is recovered and authorities want to know it's ownership.

folks who murder other folks don't USE registered guns; and IF they are stupid enough to do so AND leave it at the crime scene, then they are certainly stupid enough to deserve serious jail time for ignorance alone... JMHO

[Smug_Pepe]

This is why I never got my med card. I'm legal now, they can suck it.

[SierraPadre]

The rationale the court decision gave is very insulting. Addicts and psychos we are?

[vta]

Government Begins Gun Confiscation: "Surrender Your Firearms"

Tim Brown — November 29, 2017

Oh, look how government trades the use of something that grows in nature for your rights to keep and bear arms that "shall not be infringed."

Yep, it is the liberal State of Hawaii that is going after users of cannabis.

The Honolulu Police Department has issued an order for medical marijuana users to "surrender your firearms."

Not only is this is a violation of the Fifth Amendment's protections, but since when did cops get to make such a decision?

KITV reports, "In a letter dated November 13th new Chief of police Susan Ballard states card-holders have 30 days to surrender weapons, permits, and ammunition to HPD or to transfer ownership. According to the letter, the only way card-holders can get their weapons back is to get clearance from their doctors."

According to the Honolulu Star, the letter claims, “Your medical marijuana use disqualifies you from ownership of firearms and ammunition.”

Ballard cites Hawaii Revised Statutes, Section 134-7 (a) as the reason for the move. That section reads: “No person who is a fugitive from justice or is a person prohibited from possessing firearms or ammunition under federal law shall own, possess, or control any firearm or ammunition therefore.”

Interesting since people using medical marijuana would be able to do so under law even though "law" should have no governance over a plant in the first place.

Furthermore, these people do not necessarily qualify as a "prohibited" person since Ballard cannot point to a law in which they are in violation of nor can she point to a conviction, something the Fifth Amendment demands before one can lose their rights.

Leafly commented that the letters appear to represent “the first time a law enforcement agency has proactively sought out state-registered medical marijuana patients and ordered them to surrender their guns.”

Here's a copy of the letter.



The letter claimed “a medical doctor’s clearance letter is required for any future firearms applications or returns of firearms from HPD evidence.”

U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit ruled that a ban on gun ownership for medical marijuana users is constitutional.

According to the court, marijuana use remains illegal on the federal level, even if a state exercises the 10th Amendment against the DC beast, but they fail to argue from a position of the Fifth Amendment's protections regarding this.

Form 4473 asks if the would-be firearm purchaser is “an unlawful user of…marijuana.” No one who answers “yes” to that question can purchase a gun.

That's all fine and dandy, but what about those who have already purchased and own their gun? They aren't having to answer diddly squat. Furthermore, if government was actually engaging in the job they are supposed to be engaging in, which is protecting the rights of the people and bringing justice upon evildoers (Roman 13:1-5), then maybe, just maybe violent criminals would be put out of this world through the death penalty and the nonsensical laws we have against plants would be reversed.

Keep in mind those drug laws that so many neo-cons push are nothing more than a means to take your money, engage in no-knock searched and seizures and have resulted in billions of dollars being spent which has only helped to facilitate the black market, enrich those selling marijuana and result in far more dead than marijuana will ever bring about.

This is why the drug war must end and this is only a few examples.

Cannabis has been legalized in 29 states and Washington, DC. Still, in 2011, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms sent a letter to all firearms licensees stating that even if individuals have state-issued medical cannabis cards, it is still illegal for them to own firearms because cannabis is still a Schedule I substance under federal law:

“Any person who uses or is addicted to marijuana, regardless of whether his or her State has passed legislation authorizing marijuana use for medicinal purposes, is an unlawful user of or addicted to a controlled substance, and is prohibited by Federal law from possessing firearms and ammunition.”

Absolutely incredible how the central government assumes authority never given to it and rides roughshod over the Tenth Amendment.

However, we know they are doing it because of big money from Big Pharma because cannabis has been used to treat cancer, autism, and a variety of other health issues, including treatment of PTSD for our veterans.

Funny, the same government wants you to trust them as to how to manage your healthcare.

It's interesting how government claims cannabis is not medicine but holds the patent on it, isn't it? What does that tell you?

One thing we know for sure is the feds don't even prosecute people who lie on those ATF forms, or they do only rarely, but how dare you own a gun and use marijuana, even with the permission of the state beast and own a weapon!

Susan Ballard is going beyond the law and taking the law into her own hands. She's about as un-American as one can get.
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