Single solvent de-waxing Separate De-wax column or NOT? - Cannabis Concentrates - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums

gardenlover · 10-05-2017, 12:00 AM

So my partner and I purchased a 5 LBS ICARUS from best value and have made about 10-15 tuns on it, and we are still learning a lot!!! but one of the main issues we have as i see it, is that we need to get our solvent colder before running it through the material column. With that being said my big main question to you all is this:

DO WE NEED TO HAVE A SEPARATE DEWING COLUM IF WE CAN CHILL OUR SOLVENT (and material) to -30F???What are the advantages of using a separate dewing column? We generally do not soak at all and just run the solvent straight through; so if we were to do this at -30F or lower, would it not stand to reason that all the lipids and fats would stay left win the material?

I have been contemplating and reading a lot about extraction tech and have not yet found the answer to this? I would to hear gray wolfs explanation on why or why not bc i know he would be able to break down the why part of that it need to set for a time to precipitate out or what? thanks everyone in advance for your responses to this!

mobin · 10-05-2017, 12:40 AM

take a sample from a run and go about performing a winterization....see if anything pops out.

if there's lipids after 24hrs in the freezer, then you have your answer.

gardenlover · 10-05-2017, 10:09 AM

I suppose that would be the best way to find my answer. I have done a lot of experimenting and was hoping someone would have a technical answer as to why one needs a separate dewing column though. Like they know that the fats will still come out of the plant matter even if its cold bc the lipids are part of the trichome and that it needs to settle at below zero to give them time to form a solid to filter out....or that the fats will stay in the plant matter if cold enough bc they are held within the leaf....I guess i am just looking for a more technical answer. thanks for the reply and Idea Mobin

mobin · 10-05-2017, 03:48 PM

if you want a technical answer, there's a whole internet for that

https://scholarsmine.mst.edu/cgi/vie...masters_theses

you didn't bother to experiment or research.

am i a dick or are you lazy?

Zapadra · 10-05-2017, 04:17 PM

Just inject at those temps imo.

mobin · 10-05-2017, 05:47 PM

you're trying to crystalize waxes out of a solvent that picks up waxes. getting cold is only part of the battle. a media in the column that promotes nucleation for those waxes to chelate out of is desired.

fill it full of propak ending with a series of progressively finer filters/media.

you'll never get all the waxes out because you have other shit coming along for the ride that crystallizes too.....like THCa....hmmm don't fuck up there right?

when i make "oil" i remove all sorts of compounds first. that makes for an easier and more complete "dewax".

not tech enough for you? too bad i'm outta coffee learn all sorts of shit below...

https://petrowiki.org/Asphaltenes_and_waxes
https://petrowiki.org/Thermodynamic_..._precipitation

here's some homework for you...

what's your gas mix and how do you know? (freebie

)
what's the WAT for your solvent system? (you like math right?)
what is the crystallinity range for your targeted waxes? (hint it's not 100% so you're fucked.)

Humphry Davy · 10-07-2017, 05:47 PM

I believe the main reason for the separate dewaxing column (which is generally a greater volume than the material column) is to have the ability to do a bottom flood of the material to soak, followed by a top flood, the dewaxing chamber being a greater volume is capable of holding both floods, which are then dewaxed.

I have the 2 lb unit, have had a ton of quality issues however, perhaps that explains the word “value” in their name. For instance I found thread tape in every single valve orifice. I designed my 2 lb unit over the phone with them to have a 2” ball valve below the dewaxing chamber to separate the dewaxing chamber from the filters, the ball valve leaked on the first run (entire unit passed a +100 psi nitrogen pressure check for 1 hour prior to run). Spoke w one of their techs and he stated they would get back w me. I ended up calling back and got a different tech, he stated he does not believe their 2” ball valves are approved for dewaxing temps. Ask if he could retrieve a spec sheet, he said not currently as he would have to have a 3rd party test the valve as their valves are produced in China and come with no specs on testing. Would have been nice to been told this while I was designing the unit over the phone. I now run the unit without the ball valve as it was originally intended. Oh and randomly a few days after the original call I received a new 2” ball valve, which I was told I couldn’t use.....

jswick93 · 10-07-2017, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humphry Davy

I believe the main reason for the separate dewaxing column (which is generally a greater volume than the material column) is to have the ability to do a bottom flood of the material to soak, followed by a top flood, the dewaxing chamber being a greater volume is capable of holding both floods, which are then dewaxed.

I have the 2 lb unit, have had a ton of quality issues however, perhaps that explains the word “value” in their name. For instance I found thread tape in every single valve orifice. I designed my 2 lb unit over the phone with them to have a 2” ball valve below the dewaxing chamber to separate the dewaxing chamber from the filters, the ball valve leaked on the first run (entire unit passed a +100 psi nitrogen pressure check for 1 hour prior to run). Spoke w one of their techs and he stated they would get back w me. I ended up calling back and got a different tech, he stated he does not believe their 2” ball valves are approved for dewaxing temps. Ask if he could retrieve a spec sheet, he said not currently as he would have to have a 3rd party test the valve as their valves are produced in China and come with no specs on testing. Would have been nice to been told this while I was designing the unit over the phone. I now run the unit without the ball valve as it was originally intended. Oh and randomly a few days after the original call I received a new 2” ball valve, which I was told I couldn’t use.....

The larger ball valves can leak when exposed to those temps, especially if not opened or closed fully or if the valve seals aren't tightened properly. There shouldn't be any thread tape on the inside of you system though. I have taped hundreds of fittings and never had that happen once.

gardenlover · 10-09-2017, 01:10 PM

Mobin, I have searched for the answers many times and have still yet to find the technical breakdown of how lipids and plant waxs behave in low temps in a hydrocarbon solvent. thank you for the links but either i am too slow to break down the scholarly thesis from 1928 or it did not have the information i was seeking. and the other two links were not functioning.

so I still would like to know how plant fats behave when being washed with -30F to -40F n-butain/propane or any other hydrocarbon we use to extract so i could better my process skills. I am fairly new to this so i have done some testing and experimenting but I am currently waiting on more parts and supplies to reach said temps starting from the material column.

Humphrey, I agree 100% with you on some of the quality issues, although BVV is vary prompt about trying to remedy any problems unfortunately we bought our system from Buds Hydro in Michigan and apparently that negates some of the warranty somehow. we had some issues with tanks and they were ready to fix the situation but upon learning where they came from we were told it had to go through them, and even though it would be no loss to them they refused to honor any type of warranty and all they had to do was pass on what we were telling them. I guess we should have read the reviews before hand.

10-05-2017, 12:00 AM	#1
gardenlover Caregiver with a passion for the process and journey. Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: US Posts: 249	Single solvent de-waxing Separate De-wax column or NOT? So my partner and I purchased a 5 LBS ICARUS from best value and have made about 10-15 tuns on it, and we are still learning a lot!!! but one of the main issues we have as i see it, is that we need to get our solvent colder before running it through the material column. With that being said my big main question to you all is this: DO WE NEED TO HAVE A SEPARATE DEWING COLUM IF WE CAN CHILL OUR SOLVENT (and material) to -30F???What are the advantages of using a separate dewing column? We generally do not soak at all and just run the solvent straight through; so if we were to do this at -30F or lower, would it not stand to reason that all the lipids and fats would stay left win the material? I have been contemplating and reading a lot about extraction tech and have not yet found the answer to this? I would to hear gray wolfs explanation on why or why not bc i know he would be able to break down the why part of that it need to set for a time to precipitate out or what? thanks everyone in advance for your responses to this!
	Quote

10-05-2017, 12:40 AM	#2
mobin Member Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 233	take a sample from a run and go about performing a winterization....see if anything pops out. if there's lipids after 24hrs in the freezer, then you have your answer. __________________ fully retarded and still can do shit.
	Quote 1 members found this post helpful.

10-05-2017, 03:48 PM	#4
mobin Member Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 233	if you want a technical answer, there's a whole internet for that https://scholarsmine.mst.edu/cgi/vie...masters_theses you didn't bother to experiment or research. am i a dick or are you lazy? __________________ fully retarded and still can do shit.
	Quote 1 members found this post helpful.

10-05-2017, 04:17 PM	#5
Zapadra Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: The Western Lands Posts: 740	Just inject at those temps imo. __________________ Love is a dog from Hell.
	Quote

10-05-2017, 05:47 PM	#6
mobin Member Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 233	you're trying to crystalize waxes out of a solvent that picks up waxes. getting cold is only part of the battle. a media in the column that promotes nucleation for those waxes to chelate out of is desired. fill it full of propak ending with a series of progressively finer filters/media. you'll never get all the waxes out because you have other shit coming along for the ride that crystallizes too.....like THCa....hmmm don't fuck up there right? when i make "oil" i remove all sorts of compounds first. that makes for an easier and more complete "dewax". not tech enough for you? too bad i'm outta coffee learn all sorts of shit below... https://petrowiki.org/Asphaltenes_and_waxes https://petrowiki.org/Thermodynamic_..._precipitation here's some homework for you... what's your gas mix and how do you know? (freebie ) what's the WAT for your solvent system? (you like math right?) what is the crystallinity range for your targeted waxes? (hint it's not 100% so you're fucked.) __________________ fully retarded and still can do shit. Last edited by mobin; 10-05-2017 at 06:03 PM.. Reason: added homework and more "tech"
	Quote 2 members found this post helpful.

10-05-2017, 10:09 AM	#3
gardenlover Caregiver with a passion for the process and journey. Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: US Posts: 249	I suppose that would be the best way to find my answer. I have done a lot of experimenting and was hoping someone would have a technical answer as to why one needs a separate dewing column though. Like they know that the fats will still come out of the plant matter even if its cold bc the lipids are part of the trichome and that it needs to settle at below zero to give them time to form a solid to filter out....or that the fats will stay in the plant matter if cold enough bc they are held within the leaf....I guess i am just looking for a more technical answer. thanks for the reply and Idea Mobin
	Quote

10-07-2017, 05:47 PM	#7
Humphry Davy Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 85	I believe the main reason for the separate dewaxing column (which is generally a greater volume than the material column) is to have the ability to do a bottom flood of the material to soak, followed by a top flood, the dewaxing chamber being a greater volume is capable of holding both floods, which are then dewaxed. I have the 2 lb unit, have had a ton of quality issues however, perhaps that explains the word “value” in their name. For instance I found thread tape in every single valve orifice. I designed my 2 lb unit over the phone with them to have a 2” ball valve below the dewaxing chamber to separate the dewaxing chamber from the filters, the ball valve leaked on the first run (entire unit passed a +100 psi nitrogen pressure check for 1 hour prior to run). Spoke w one of their techs and he stated they would get back w me. I ended up calling back and got a different tech, he stated he does not believe their 2” ball valves are approved for dewaxing temps. Ask if he could retrieve a spec sheet, he said not currently as he would have to have a 3rd party test the valve as their valves are produced in China and come with no specs on testing. Would have been nice to been told this while I was designing the unit over the phone. I now run the unit without the ball valve as it was originally intended. Oh and randomly a few days after the original call I received a new 2” ball valve, which I was told I couldn’t use.....
	Quote

10-09-2017, 01:10 PM	#9
gardenlover Caregiver with a passion for the process and journey. Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: US Posts: 249	Mobin, I have searched for the answers many times and have still yet to find the technical breakdown of how lipids and plant waxs behave in low temps in a hydrocarbon solvent. thank you for the links but either i am too slow to break down the scholarly thesis from 1928 or it did not have the information i was seeking. and the other two links were not functioning. so I still would like to know how plant fats behave when being washed with -30F to -40F n-butain/propane or any other hydrocarbon we use to extract so i could better my process skills. I am fairly new to this so i have done some testing and experimenting but I am currently waiting on more parts and supplies to reach said temps starting from the material column. Humphrey, I agree 100% with you on some of the quality issues, although BVV is vary prompt about trying to remedy any problems unfortunately we bought our system from Buds Hydro in Michigan and apparently that negates some of the warranty somehow. we had some issues with tanks and they were ready to fix the situation but upon learning where they came from we were told it had to go through them, and even though it would be no loss to them they refused to honor any type of warranty and all they had to do was pass on what we were telling them. I guess we should have read the reviews before hand.
	Quote