[SkyHighLer]

Originally Posted by Mellowyellow25

I've seen this guys video before. A few things about his process that I dislike. First, he seems to handle the material with his hands a great deal. That removes the good stuff. No need to do that, IMHO.

Second, after distillation his method of constant temperature monitoring and adjusting seems unnecessary. In the Endoca video he lets it sit overnight then does simple a flame test to check for residual solvent.

Using sunlight to remove the chlorophyll apparently works but again, seems like an extra unnecessary step not needed if using cold solvent.

As the using a variac with the water distilled, that seems like a good idea. What temperature are you trying to achieve by doing that?

You can't boil a liquid at a higher temperature than it's boiling point.

The purpose of the Variac is to control the rate of boil, too low and you're not being efficient, too high and the liquid will boil up into the condenser.

For maintaining steady temperatures beneath boiling point I added a microprocessor temperature controller. It also has a 'limit' function which cuts off power completely when the solvent is nearly gone by sensing when the temperature begins to rise above the boiling point range (what the original design was supposed to do...) I say range because that is what actually occurs during distillation when you don't artificially tightly band the boiling temperature with a controller, and this is why you shouldn't see a perfectly steady, even drip when you're suppling the proper amount of power, the system naturally goes through cyclic temperature changes as it tries to maintain equilibrium.


Extract cold, and be very careful not to use too much heat when removing the solvent.

[WaterFarmFan]

Originally Posted by Mellowyellow25

We have not really discussed this part in detail. I watched a video last night using one of these systems with the tilted round flask spinning in a hot water/oil bath. All the labs have them. Cost $30k and up.

With this one the plant material goes in a "jar" that has a deep freeze jacket surrounding it. Alcohol is added. From there, the extraction is pumped into the flask. Vacuum is applied along with the (low) heat. The vacuum pulls out the alcohol and transfers it to a cooling tower where it chills and becomes liquid again to be reused.

This is where the video ends. Not sure what the final product is, but it had the typical golden amber color.

This is called a Rotary evaporator.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_evaporator

It separates the alcohol from your extract. You do not need this. It does the same process as standard vacuum distillation only at a faster rate with higher throughput.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_distillation

There are lots of videos that show these. Search videos for "vacuum distillation" for a start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZo97aO4xbk

Originally Posted by Mellowyellow25

Is this what the "pressure cooker" looking tank with vacuum pump in one of your EBay links is used for?

This is a totally different step from above. After filtering cannabis and cold ethanol, you have to remove the bulk of the alcohol at the lowest possible temps, and vacuum distillation (which includes the more expensive roto vaps) does this most efficiently. I said BULK (and this is a bit tricky) because you do not remove all of the alcohol in distillation. I try to get around 90% ethanol removed.

The step with the stainless steel kettle (or a more expensive vacuum oven) is to PURGE the last 10% (or so) of ethanol that remains in your extract. Again, using a vacuum allows you to remove alcohol with less heat.

Do some video searches for "vacuum purge". You will find a lot that reference BHO and show a different process sometimes, but the concept of purging alcohol is exactly the same as butane.

Originally Posted by Mellowyellow25

What kind if heat is applied to that tank to get the removal process started?

It is actually the vacuum that gets the process going, because it shifts the boiling points significantly. You need heat and thin film because the last bit of ethanol is very stubborn and gets trapped in the sticky mass. As for applying heat to your vacuum kettle, this can be done with in many ways. I referenced a dedicated heat pad with accurate PID controller that sticks to bottom of kettle. More expensive = more control over temperatures.

Originally Posted by Mellowyellow25

Where is the alcohol under vacuum going as I see no cooling attachment in that kit?

You really should use a cold trap between your vacuum device and pump, but honestly if you use a cheap pump and change the oil often, some ethanol getting to pump won't really hurt it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_trap
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=cold+trap&_sacat=0

WFF

[Mellowyellow25]

Watched all the referenced videos and read all the wiki pages. Most helpful. Thank you all!

So, clearly it seems we all agree using cold ethanol and cold plant material for the initial extraction is preferable. Dry ice over just home freezer when possible for maximum chlorophyll removal. This part we can put to rest.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the distillation and second stage vacuum ethanol removal.

Referencing the Endoca video again, his method of using the water distiller is preferable over the proverbial open pot rice cooker, used for RSO, is not only safer but collects the ethanol for further use.

Some method of controlling the heat during distillation is warranted. Either via a manual variac or micro processor controller.

Without making this too complicated, would one way to arrive at that power/temperature setting be to raise it until dripping begins then stop? I believe you stated this will vary somewhat as the process continues (?)

Here is where I'm lost. For my own limited purposes, now, there are two steps, here. Distillation first to remove most of the ethanol and vacuum with low heat to remove what's left.

Is this correct?

Looking up the boiling point of Everclear it is 190 degrees F. THC has a BP of over 300 degrees F. THC decarbs at 220 degrees F.

So why the concern over using just heat alone (again the Endoca video technique with the coffee pot warmer for 24 hours) to remove that last bit of ethanol?

Isn't the 220 degree BP of THC well above what the pot warmer will ever achieve?

[Mellowyellow25]

Sorry, meant the 300 degree BP of THC was well above the heat generated by the pot warmer, not 229 degrees.

[SkyHighLer]

Originally Posted by Mellowyellow25

Watched all the referenced videos and read all the wiki pages. Most helpful. Thank you all!

So, clearly it seems we all agree using cold ethanol and cold plant material for the initial extraction is preferable. Dry ice over just home freezer when possible for maximum chlorophyll removal. This part we can put to rest.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the distillation and second stage vacuum ethanol removal.

Referencing the Endoca video again, his method of using the water distiller is preferable over the proverbial open pot rice cooker, used for RSO, is not only safer but collects the ethanol for further use.

Some method of controlling the heat during distillation is warranted. Either via a manual variac or micro processor controller.

Without making this too complicated, would one way to arrive at that power/temperature setting be to raise it until dripping begins then stop? I believe you stated this will vary somewhat as the process continues (?)

Here is where I'm lost. For my own limited purposes, now, there are two steps, here. Distillation first to remove most of the ethanol and vacuum with low heat to remove what's left.

Is this correct?

Looking up the boiling point of Everclear it is 190 degrees F. THC has a BP of over 300 degrees F. THC decarbs at 220 degrees F.

So why the concern over using just heat alone (again the Endoca video technique with the coffee pot warmer for 24 hours) to remove that last bit of ethanol?

Isn't the 220 degree BP of THC well above what the pot warmer will ever achieve?

The art of removing the solvent in the gentlest manner is the game.

Extract cold. Pour into a Pyrex dish with a fan on it, any heat added to the bottom of the Pyrex dish should be very little or controlled so when the solvent evaporates off the temperature doesn't climb past warm, ~90-120F.


Attached picture of how the water distiller top can be set in place upside down with the fan blowing on the solvent/oil with the temperature set low, similar to the above, except you're first reclaiming most of the solvent at it's boiling point before the final gentle purge.


Pictures of a Variac controlled silicone mat heater attached to a borosilicate Pyrex dish. In the future the new temperature controller/limiter unit I assembled will be used in combination with the Variac.

[Hashmasta-Kut]

Originally Posted by Thomas@LRL

No. It's a controversial subject, but I don't.

Why not?

[Mellowyellow25]

Originally Posted by SkyHighLer

The art of removing the solvent in the gentlest manner is the game.

Extract cold. Pour into a Pyrex dish with a fan on it, any heat added to the bottom of the Pyrex dish should be very little or controlled so when the solvent evaporates off the temperature doesn't climb past warm, ~90-120F.

Questions:

Are you using this low heat technique for the entire evaporation process? No distillation just open evaporation in the dish until it's all gone?

What is your end product? Is it the golden amber "honey oil" suitable for vaping right out of the dish?

Please be very specific or attach pictures of the final product if you can.

Thanks.

[Mellowyellow25]

I wonder how using a small vacuum chamber would work for the evaporation process?

I have a lab chamber about one cubic foot square. Door on the front has a 1/2" thick glass panel to see inside. Attached to a very powerful vacuum pump to bring chamber down to -30 hg in about 2 minutes.

Could install a power connection to allow for your 3M heating pad. Open dish sitting atop with solvent after extraction and filtering.

Wonder if I'd still need to provide a cooling tower for the expelled ethanol or would the size of the chamber be enough to allow the vapor to collect in?

Any thoughts?

[ReikoX]

Unless you have a cold trap, evaporation with the vacuum chamber will likely foul your pump oil quickly. That would, however, be idele for the final purge.

[MrBungle]

you are supposed to change the vac pump oil every time its used... ( you don't have to but thats what you are supposed to do....)

putting your oil alcohol mixture in a vac chamber and pulling a vacuum on it removes atmospheric pressure, and creates a negative pressure inside the vessel, therefore lowering the temperature at which every thing boils inside the vessel that is under vacuum...