[CrossBones]

Ok Gang, Group shot from 12/6. Transplanted DC3 to a gallon tonight.. Simply Vegging in Circles for now. Got fim happy and did most of the new tops. Time to let em run for a while.. Bonsai

[Dave Coulier]

Thanks for the updates. I dig seeing others methods used. I haven't lst'd any of these Durban before, so I look forward to seeing how yours come out.

Just a tip on using so much blue lighting, IME it leads to smaller compact plants with smaller fan leaves, which I can't help but feel leads to smaller buds in flower. I used to use a 50/50 mix of Blue/Red T5 lights in veg and plants would be too compact quite often w/ fan leaves smaller than I wanted. Its great if you're tight on space though and looking for Bonzai plants.

[CrossBones]

Originally Posted by Dave Coulier

Thanks for the updates. I dig seeing others methods used. I haven't lst'd any of these Durban before, so I look forward to seeing how yours come out.

Just a tip on using so much blue lighting, IME it leads to smaller compact plants with smaller fan leaves, which I can't help but feel leads to smaller buds in flower. I used to use a 50/50 mix of Blue/Red T5 lights in veg and plants would be too compact quite often w/ fan leaves smaller than I wanted. Its great if you're tight on space though and looking for Bonzai plants.

No Prob Mate, Thank You for the opportunity to hopefully get a taste of this awesome strain we've all been drooling over for so long now... the leaves already smell powerful.. As far as lst, just simply trying to create the shape now for an even canopy later, I do defoliate the larger fan leaves to allow the new branches all the light, so hopefully all these new little leaves will fill out some.. also will super crop and fim as I go..

What is your lighting setup per stage these days Dave? I was looking into going Hortilux Blue MH for veg, but for the price and dependability issues with them I decided to try the hybrid approach after studying the spectrum charts and studies for quite few light setups with these leds mixed with the Hort Super HPS spectrum for veg and flower. Shown in pic all fired up at 100% - I also will drop the lights running time by a few minutes every three days or so, counting down to finish. I used 4 grams osmocote per gallon media and added the silica in this transplant, need to back off a little bit on the organic nitrogen tho, showing a bit of tip burn. Also watering each week with Real Growers Recharge.

[Dave Coulier]

Originally Posted by CrossBones

No Prob Mate, Thank You for the opportunity to hopefully get a taste of this awesome strain we've all been drooling over for so long now... the leaves already smell powerful.. As far as lst, just simply trying to create the shape now for an even canopy later, I do defoliate the larger fan leaves to allow the new branches all the light, so hopefully all these new little leaves will fill out some.. also will super crop and fim as I go..

What is your lighting setup per stage these days Dave? I was looking into going Hortilux Blue MH for veg, but for the price and dependability issues with them I decided to try the hybrid approach after studying the spectrum charts and studies for quite few light setups with these leds mixed with the Hort Super HPS spectrum for veg and flower. Shown in pic all fired up at 100% - I also will drop the lights running time by a few minutes every three days or so, counting down to finish. I used 4 grams osmocote per gallon media and added the silica in this transplant, need to back off a little bit on the organic nitrogen tho, showing a bit of tip burn. Also watering each week with Real Growers Recharge.

View Image

The Durban do put off a nice stink dont they? If you think they smell good, you should smell the Durban x Shit Ive got in veg right now. They smell better in veg than many plants Ive flowered out before! A very sweet tropical fruit scent was coming off them when I transplanted them last week. I can't wait to see what they're like in flower.

For seed starting and clones I use T5 54w High Output bulbs. Its a 6 light fixture, and I use 4 red/2blue. Ive done 3 red/3blue, even 2 red/4blue and plants would always be too compact from the excessive blue. To get the benefits from blue light, we really only need to supplement about 10-15% blue light. Im still beyond that threshold, and Ill often times end up with plants more compact than Id like still. Although its great if you're growing bonzai plants which Ive done on multiple occasions by utilizing excessive blue light.

In my veg tent, its a single 600W Ushio Opti Blue MH bulb. Id prefer to have HPS side by side with the Ushio, but with the HPS it just gets too hot in there, so I stick to the Ushio MH.

In my flower room, I use a 600w Ushio HPS, and a 600w Ushio Opti Blue. About a 3rd of the plants get mostly blue light, a 3rd get mostly red, and those in the middle get a nice overlapping. Someday Id like to get a 3rd light in there, and leave the Ushio MH right in the middle and run 2 Ushio Opti Red.

If you're worried about bulbs breaking down then Id highly suggest Ushio to you. They are compatible w/ Digital Ballast, and work superbly. Ive never had a premature failure on any Ushios Ive owned, and Ive got through half a dozen at least. Im due to replace mine someday soon, but I tend to run my bulbs until they stop working for me. Im cheap like that, and let me tel you Ushios last a long time!

May I ask how often you water, at what point of dry down do you water at as well, and how much solution? I hate to nitpick, but it looks like you are experiencing turgidity issues with your plants, which is going to affect growth rates quite a bit.

Those fan leafs should be larger and chunkier. It would appear you are having leaf expansion issues. It may be somewhat related to your blue LEDS, it could also be related to low RH in there. Ive noticed over the years in my own garden if RH isn't high enough leaf expansion is reduced, along with overall growth.

Thanks for the update, and I hope to see many more in the future.

[CrossBones]

Originally Posted by Dave Coulier

May I ask how often you water, at what point of dry down do you water at as well, and how much solution? I hate to nitpick, but it looks like you are experiencing turgidity issues with your plants, which is going to affect growth rates quite a bit.

Those fan leafs should be larger and chunkier. It would appear you are having leaf expansion issues. It may be somewhat related to your blue LEDS, it could also be related to low RH in there. Ive noticed over the years in my own garden if RH isn't high enough leaf expansion is reduced, along with overall growth.

Nitpick Away, these eyes and brain have started to get a bit blurry with age, any extra help is always appreciated... I do experience turdigity problems from time to time, but never thought plants did.. I had to google the term... This internet stuff is great, makes things so much quicker than days of old..

I agree with your assessment, and it's a bit of all of the above, I had just the Leds on for about 5 days before my sack dropped enough to get back into the HPS, RH has also dropped dramatically over the last few weeks to 17% - 28% -- plus I had the fan blowing over them making it all the worse...

Watering is non scientific, I use a moisture meter, stick it in the soil and water accordingly as they need, or I double check with with the old finger in the soil method, dry the to second knuckle. I don't water heavily to drain thru, just enough to moisten, with the added optisorb and bio char they do stay wet for quite a long time with just the tops and sides drying out.. No other solutions are added to deep well water except once a week I add a little recharge and hydroguard at this point..

I have raised the fan 6" to blow completely over the plants, added some standing water in a open container for a quick fix and ordered a humidifier.

Thank You for the feedback - It's amazing all the little things you once knew, yet forgot, I even ordered that heating mat I meant to do long ago after reading your comments in your main thread...

[CrossBones]

Originally Posted by Dave Coulier

In my veg tent, its a single 600W Ushio Opti Blue MH bulb. Id prefer to have HPS side by side with the Ushio, but with the HPS it just gets too hot in there, so I stick to the Ushio MH.

In my flower room, I use a 600w Ushio HPS, and a 600w Ushio Opti Blue. About a 3rd of the plants get mostly blue light, a 3rd get mostly red, and those in the middle get a nice overlapping. Someday Id like to get a 3rd light in there, and leave the Ushio MH right in the middle and run 2 Ushio Opti Red.

This is the exact effect I was trying to create. but in reverse, Hortilux Super HPS center, Leds sides. Overlapping the spectrum towards center. I was shopping MH bulbs, but a deal popped up and got 2 LEDS for the same price as 1 nice bulb, Figured I give em a run, Ran the 2-300 watt leds, opened the top tent vent and bottom 2 sides with one oscillating fan running on low to circulate the air. Checked the running watts with a Kill-a-Watt meter, for a total 274 Watt draw with temps steady at 74 - 76, My 400 watt HPS and fans pull another 500 watts, Still in the 74 - 76 degree range.. 1000 watts light for 750 watt draw at the plugs for running everything.. There are a lot more cheap options in the LED market with a Primary Red Spectrum that may fill those voids. But before I recommend anything, Gotta Test.. I also have another 600w Hort Super setup I may move into starting flower, then thinking, back to the 400 towards the end... I know overthinking, but I'm feeling pretty good right now.. I will say the Hort HPS has also been good, I call em Old Reliable every time I go in to check and there still running.

[Dave Coulier]

Originally Posted by CrossBones

Nitpick Away, these eyes and brain have started to get a bit blurry with age, any extra help is always appreciated... I do experience turdigity problems from time to time, but never thought plants did.. I had to google the term... This internet stuff is great, makes things so much quicker than days of old..

I agree with your assessment, and it's a bit of all of the above, I had just the Leds on for about 5 days before my sack dropped enough to get back into the HPS, RH has also dropped dramatically over the last few weeks to 17% - 28% -- plus I had the fan blowing over them making it all the worse...

Watering is non scientific, I use a moisture meter, stick it in the soil and water accordingly as they need, or I double check with with the old finger in the soil method, dry the to second knuckle. I don't water heavily to drain thru, just enough to moisten, with the added optisorb and bio char they do stay wet for quite a long time with just the tops and sides drying out.. No other solutions are added to deep well water except once a week I add a little recharge and hydroguard at this point..

I have raised the fan 6" to blow completely over the plants, added some standing water in a open container for a quick fix and ordered a humidifier.

Thank You for the feedback - It's amazing all the little things you once knew, yet forgot, I even ordered that heating mat I meant to do long ago after reading your comments in your main thread...

Yikes, that RH Is very low. Thats definitely going to stunt growth. Im glad you got a humidifier on the way. Once you get it going you should see an improvement in leaf expansion, and growth rates. Search the interwebz for VPD Vapor Pressure Deficit. You'll learn alot and your plants will thank you for it.

If you're looking for a cheap 'fix' for the RH, run a towel through the washer, no detergent needed, then let it do its spin cycle. Hang up the damp towel in your grow area, and watch the humidity rise. I just did this in my drying closet to test it out, and within 15-20 minutes RH had risen from 39% to 52%. It'll work much faster than the bowl of water(I tried that before and was disappointed w/ results). Growing more plants is also another way to raise humidity in your grow area if you have the space.

Good move on raising the fan. The plants dont actually need direct air blowing on them. Probably dont like it for sustained periods either. Just surrounding air movement will be enough to disturb the boundary layer of air that envelopes the plants leaves. Disturbing this boundary layer in a gentle manner is enough to improve the plants transpiration rates. It doesn't require alot of air flow to accomplish it. I like to take a lighter, and burn a flame next to the canopy of my plants. If I see the flame flicker, then Ive got enough air movement to disturb that boundary layer.

Have you tried pulse watering method yet? It'll improve your plants root system, and growth as a result. Mary Maven does an excellent job using the pulse method as shown by her plants she showcased in my grow journal. I highly recommend it. It requires more patience, but the reward is worth it.

Im glad to be of some help. I too often forget to utilize the things Ive learned from time to time, or sometimes I just disregard them for convenience sake, but my plants always pay the price when I do. A bad habit I need to break for good.

Originally Posted by CrossBones

This is the exact effect I was trying to create. but in reverse, Hortilux Super HPS center, Leds sides. Overlapping the spectrum towards center. I was shopping MH bulbs, but a deal popped up and got 2 LEDS for the same price as 1 nice bulb, Figured I give em a run, Ran the 2-300 watt leds, opened the top tent vent and bottom 2 sides with one oscillating fan running on low to circulate the air. Checked the running watts with a Kill-a-Watt meter, for a total 274 Watt draw with temps steady at 74 - 76, My 400 watt HPS and fans pull another 500 watts, Still in the 74 - 76 degree range.. 1000 watts light for 750 watt draw at the plugs for running everything.. There are a lot more cheap options in the LED market with a Primary Red Spectrum that may fill those voids. But before I recommend anything, Gotta Test.. I also have another 600w Hort Super setup I may move into starting flower, then thinking, back to the 400 towards the end... I know overthinking, but I'm feeling pretty good right now.. I will say the Hort HPS has also been good, I call em Old Reliable every time I go in to check and there still running.

View Image

Dig the setup. Lets hope you get some great results from it. Ive never used LED's myself, so it'll be interesting to see how the Durban do under the lighting. Mid 70's is excellent temp. The Durban can handle 80-low 80's just fine if necessary, but its good that they'll be comfortable.

[thejact55]

I just started running LEDs the last year or so. It definetely keeps plants compact. I have em up at the top of the tent, with ample space between it and the plants, and they never stretch. Hps is where my heart still lies, but i cant complain much about LEDs.
I run the red and blue spectrum at same time, the whole life cylce.

[CrossBones]

That's for sure thejact55, a whole new learning curve with the leds,, not used to the compact growth... I have resorted to using the leds only with no ventilation and auto humidifier to keep my RH in range, It's been colder than a Dutch Harbor and drier than Death Valley here.. I have been taking pics, but as of late, they suck and not worthy of posting.. That low RH I had did stunt the growth rate and are now starting to get moving again, I did transplant them into 3 gallon pots in the last week.. I'll try and get some better pics up soon, but hard to do as I'm a state away for a few days... Dave, Shooters and ReikoX -- Yours are all Looking Great !!!

[Dave Coulier]

Originally Posted by CrossBones

That's for sure thejact55, a whole new learning curve with the leds,, not used to the compact growth... I have resorted to using the leds only with no ventilation and auto humidifier to keep my RH in range, It's been colder than a Dutch Harbor and drier than Death Valley here.. I have been taking pics, but as of late, they suck and not worthy of posting.. That low RH I had did stunt the growth rate and are now starting to get moving again, I did transplant them into 3 gallon pots in the last week.. I'll try and get some better pics up soon, but hard to do as I'm a state away for a few days... Dave, Shooters and ReikoX -- Yours are all Looking Great !!!

Whats the RH currently sitting at CB? Minimum I would shoot for is 40%. 50-60% would be wonderful. Whats the temps like during lights on/off? My plants are more turgid as temps go up to 85, but Id recommend around 77-80F.

I too understand not wanting to post pictures when my plants are struggling. You're not alone! Im sure you'll get them back on track soon once you get the environment settled.