[mushroombrew]

Originally Posted by Drewsif

OP, corporate science is bullshit. Its lies and gatekeeping.. Organic vs inorganic, there is no debate. We know nitrates are bad. Big Mike won't tell you that, if that's what you're waiting for? Science in general is not based on reality, its based on paper. Science says all farts smell the same and all pussy taste the same. Science says there are no strains. Fuck science. Fuck anyone who says nitrates are healthy to smoke.

Organic is just a word thrown around. It has a meaning. Nothing to do with gov permits..Organic is a plant with a digestive system, as nature intended.

Organic (natural, real) uses a digestive system, the soil. The end result is nutrition and flavor (Brix) in the plant. Inorganic can never be medical grade because it's largely these solids, not Thc, that provides healing. Natural oils and sugars IMPOSSIBLE to achieve without complex microbial waste digestion at the root zone.

Inorganic bypasses the stomach (root zone) and fills the body with chemicals directly. Iv bag and Flintstones vitamins = inorganic.

Have you ever wondered why people who grew up on twinkies and baloney can't hold an intelligent conversation? Shoving some vitamins down your throat as an adult to counter the fact you've never eaten nutritional food as a child, creates an artifical type of growth, an unnatural body and an unnatural mind.


The entire charade of "hydroponics" is that you can put the Brix levels in (fake them) by contaminating the plant with single molecule sugars and non-cannabis plant oils. This is fraud, a con, a sham. Hydroponic (Inorganic/soiless/direct injection) cannot hold natural Brix levels. The nutrion/flavor/medicinal levels are directly related to microbial waste digestion. Not from a plastic bottle. Unless it's bennies .

You cant have living soil with no soil. You cant grow natural (real, authentic) plants without microbial soil. Its fake produce. Not really an opinion here.. Food has to have nutrition to count as food. No one is spending 300 for an ounce of lettuce. Why would somone spend 300 on weed that has only reached the potential of lettuce? Cannabis needs to be what it is intended to be naturally; a flavorful healing spiritual craft produce crop. Not something that smells like boat seats and tastes like tanning lotion and upsets your stomach.

Excellent glad to hear your thoughts.

So do you believe soil grown "natural" flower has a higher medicinal value?

I like how you used lettuce as an analogy. That is what DWC is to me.
The plants just take up a loony amount of water and are way more floppy all around. Whereas any inert media grows woodier plants.

But microbes can live in inert media too lets not forget that.

I look at chems much like protien shakes.

Sure there are BCAA's and aminos for days in a steak. The shake is predigested and absorbs faster.

For the record I prefer steak. But my plants live on shakes. That dosent seem fair...

[Only Ornamental]

Again, the proper definition of "organic" is lacking.
We can't have a proper conversation/debate if everyone talks about something different.

Organic as a chemical term means that the molecules contain carbon, nothing more, nothing less, whereas "inorganic" mainly refers to mineral derived products.
In German and French language, "organic farming" etc. are termed "biological" which clearly distinguishes the term from organic chemistry. Organic farming does involve inorganic products too (e.g. limestone and depending on the regulations and certifications also other more or less pure mineral nutrients if specific conditions are met) but is mostly based on fertilisers and growing techniques of natural, ecological, environmental friendly, sustainable, unaltered, and synthesis-free origin.
The plants themselves don't care, O and IO are just definitions. What they do care about is which molecules and inorganic salts they get access to. Macromolecules such as bone and blood meal and coarse ground dolomite or granite need some sort of breakdown (e.g. mineralisation, weathering) prior to assimilation whereas a well brewed tea is, on a molecular level, to a good part inorganic although derived from "organic" (i.e. plant) matter. Said plant matter is seldom certified organic, though.

@Drewsif: You clearly have not the slightest hint of an approximate idea regarding even the most basic rules and definitions of chemistry and science. Big Mike is "corporate" and "marketing", not "science" or "chemistry". Probably he's also "bullshit" but he's certainly "big pockets full of money" and "great salesman"... Mentioning him in one sentence with "corporate science" is mockery and a disgrace for the real agricultural corporations like Dow Chemical Co., DuPont Pioneer, ChemChina, Syngenta, Bayer, and Monsanto who do real science and fund considerable university research programs (what we know about plant biology is to a good part only thanks to them!). These 6 alone control over 60% of the world market in agrochemicals and seeds, pollute the planet, do lobbying, control who eats what and how much... You simply have no idea. Sorry to say so! Ain't meant as an insult but just a logical deduction of your above statement.

[Mia]

Originally Posted by DocTim420

And then I was told by a guy wearing a white lab coat that processing phosphate rock for organic use--does not remove all of the natural radioactive material. Hmmm, anyone have a spare Geiger Counter?

It's actually worse than that if I remember correctly. The process actually concentrates radioactive elements. If I also remember correctly, tobacco farmers are mandated by law in the US to use super rock phosphate as a fertilizer on a plant that is a wonderful bioaccumulator..

[Cannabologist]

ROFL there are so many stupid assholes online. Always on weed forums.

Plants don't give a fuck. If you think so, you're a dumb hippy. If you think ITS ALWAYS BETTER THIS WAY MANNNN you're a dumb hippy.

If you think science is some XYZ thing, you're a dumb hippy.

Holy christ.

Don't listen or read ANYTHING on weed forums. Go to school (a REAL COLLEGE, preferably a conservative institution not run by crazy lefties. I know, its REALLY hard to do right now, I got lucky being on the cusp of this change, but there still are good schools out there), or learn from a REAL PRO. Not dumb hippies who get lucky using PLANT SCIENCE, FEEDING FERTILIZER SALTS TO THEIR PLANTS, and calling it "organic maaannnnn"... Without having ANY clue what they are babbling about, because they read shit in high times, off weed forums, and on youtube.

You're feeding salts to your plants, period. You don't feed your plants, you will get deficiencies and grow crappy pot.

If you think your "organic teas" and "organic SHIT", and all that other stuff you're pouring onto and into your plants is not fertilizer salts then you are an idiot.

But that's the problem, it's hard to know and plenty of people that are easy at parroting the bullshit you read from all the crappy books.

You'd think with all the available information out there, people would know better by now... It's fucking 2017 for christ's sake.

It's like the assholes who say/said UV doesn't or didn't do anything, hey guess what, all those people telling you that CRAP, those horrendous egregious LIES, are just saying that so they can grow the best pot and get the best results, and you just go and only grow okay pot, always chasing for something better, always wondering why/how those other guys did it. And it's always the same few dudes too who will tell you these things and claim oh yaaa I did a test for sure guy trust me its because I just used some molasses rofl


DERP they did well because they fertilized their plants and used the right lights and had the right environment, and excellent top notch genetics. NOTHING to do with "organic".

You've been growing 20,000 seeds, and only 1 of them out of 19,999 is anything worth keeping. That guy always has that shit though? Hmmm I wonder why maybe think about it I shouldn't have to give you the answer you think that guy is SO good, or just super lucky with a good cut?

NOTHING to do with soil. Most grows are not in anything that could be considered REAL SOIL, ie. DIRT. Your "supersoil" is not dirt and is NOT "organic" because organic/organics is bullshit and is a marketing term.Now you know. Accept facts or don't, I don't care

The fundamental process of nutrient absorption by plants is well established. Irrespective of whether nutrients originate from an organic or inorganic sources, plants are only capable of absorbing nutrients in certain forms. For example, nitrogen is only absorbed as nitrate (NO3-) ions or ammonium (NH4+) ions and potassium only as K+ ions. Thus, plants cannot distinguish between nutrients derived from organic and inorganic fertilizer sources

SO simple. So easy. You'd think people could just read and go, oh, okay, there you go! No they have to make up entire lines of insane bullshit to contradict simple well established plant biology.

Organic vs inorganic, there is no debate. We know nitrates are bad. Big Mike won't tell you that, if that's what you're waiting for? Science in general is not based on reality, its based on paper. Science says all farts smell the same and all pussy taste the same. Science says there are no strains. Fuck science.

JESUS fucking christ.

Get a clue hippy holy shit rofl

You know why your pot tastes like that and you cough like that?? GENETICS. You know what color ash burns?? Grey, black, and white. BECAUSE THAT IS THE COLOR OF ASHES DUMMIES.

Rofl people trying to judge weed BY THE ASH.. You f'n morons lololoolooolol.

Here's a secret of mine when it comes to taste and having what many have told me is "the smoothest pot I've ever had, how long do you flush for".

What? Flush?? What the f is that. lol. Flush.

Pretty much everything is genetics. The rest is your fault

[mushroombrew]

Originally Posted by Cannabologist

ROFL there are so many stupid assholes online. Always on weed forums.

Plants don't give a fuck. If you think so, you're a dumb hippy. If you think ITS ALWAYS BETTER THIS WAY MANNNN you're a dumb hippy.

If you think science is some XYZ thing, you're a dumb hippy.

Holy christ.

Don't listen or read ANYTHING on weed forums. Go to school (a REAL COLLEGE, preferably a conservative institution not run by crazy lefties. I know, its REALLY hard to do right now, I got lucky being on the cusp of this change, but there still are good schools out there), or learn from a REAL PRO. Not dumb hippies who get lucky using PLANT SCIENCE, FEEDING FERTILIZER SALTS TO THEIR PLANTS, and calling it "organic maaannnnn"... Without having ANY clue what they are babbling about, because they read shit in high times, off weed forums, and on youtube.

You're feeding salts to your plants, period. You don't feed your plants, you will get deficiencies and grow crappy pot.

If you think your "organic teas" and "organic SHIT", and all that other stuff you're pouring onto and into your plants is not fertilizer salts then you are an idiot.

But that's the problem, it's hard to know and plenty of people that are easy at parroting the bullshit you read from all the crappy books.

You'd think with all the available information out there, people would know better by now... It's fucking 2017 for christ's sake.

It's like the assholes who say/said UV doesn't or didn't do anything, hey guess what, all those people telling you that CRAP, those horrendous egregious LIES, are just saying that so they can grow the best pot and get the best results, and you just go and only grow okay pot, always chasing for something better, always wondering why/how those other guys did it. And it's always the same few dudes too who will tell you these things and claim oh yaaa I did a test for sure guy trust me its because I just used some molasses rofl


DERP they did well because they fertilized their plants and used the right lights and had the right environment, and excellent top notch genetics. NOTHING to do with "organic".

You've been growing 20,000 seeds, and only 1 of them out of 19,999 is anything worth keeping. That guy always has that shit though? Hmmm I wonder why maybe think about it I shouldn't have to give you the answer you think that guy is SO good, or just super lucky with a good cut?

NOTHING to do with soil. Most grows are not in anything that could be considered REAL SOIL, ie. DIRT. Your "supersoil" is not dirt and is NOT "organic" because organic/organics is bullshit and is a marketing term.Now you know. Accept facts or don't, I don't care

SO simple. So easy. You'd think people could just read and go, oh, okay, there you go! No they have to make up entire lines of insane bullshit to contradict simple well established plant biology.

JESUS fucking christ.

Get a clue hippy holy shit rofl

You know why your pot tastes like that and you cough like that?? GENETICS. You know what color ash burns?? Grey, black, and white. BECAUSE THAT IS THE COLOR OF ASHES DUMMIES.

Rofl people trying to judge weed BY THE ASH.. You f'n morons lololoolooolol.

Here's a secret of mine when it comes to taste and having what many have told me is "the smoothest pot I've ever had, how long do you flush for".

What? Flush?? What the f is that. lol. Flush.

Pretty much everything is genetics. The rest is your fault

Although I share some of your opinions I do not voice them quite as harshly as you! lol

What genetics do you have that are so great they do not need flushing? I like the Light lime green buds I get when I starve my plants.

And I guess fam Gelato#33, Thin Mint GSC, Fire OG and GG#4 are all shit strains.

Because the taste difference between 1wk and 2 wks flush is drastic.
The burnt plant taste fades and terps come through at 2+wks.

That is my experience doing side by side flush times which I do with all new strains.

[mushroombrew]

Originally Posted by Only Ornamental

Again, the proper definition of "organic" is lacking.
We can't have a proper conversation/debate if everyone talks about something different.

Organic as a chemical term means that the molecules contain carbon, nothing more, nothing less, whereas "inorganic" mainly refers to mineral derived products.
In German and French language, "organic farming" etc. are termed "biological" which clearly distinguishes the term from organic chemistry. Organic farming does involve inorganic products too (e.g. limestone and depending on the regulations and certifications also other more or less pure mineral nutrients if specific conditions are met) but is mostly based on fertilisers and growing techniques of natural, ecological, environmental friendly, sustainable, unaltered, and synthesis-free origin.
The plants themselves don't care, O and IO are just definitions. What they do care about is which molecules and inorganic salts they get access to. Macromolecules such as bone and blood meal and coarse ground dolomite or granite need some sort of breakdown (e.g. mineralisation, weathering) prior to assimilation whereas a well brewed tea is, on a molecular level, to a good part inorganic although derived from "organic" (i.e. plant) matter. Said plant matter is seldom certified organic, though.

@Drewsif: You clearly have not the slightest hint of an approximate idea regarding even the most basic rules and definitions of chemistry and science. Big Mike is "corporate" and "marketing", not "science" or "chemistry". Probably he's also "bullshit" but he's certainly "big pockets full of money" and "great salesman"... Mentioning him in one sentence with "corporate science" is mockery and a disgrace for the real agricultural corporations like Dow Chemical Co., DuPont Pioneer, ChemChina, Syngenta, Bayer, and Monsanto who do real science and fund considerable university research programs (what we know about plant biology is to a good part only thanks to them!). These 6 alone control over 60% of the world market in agrochemicals and seeds, pollute the planet, do lobbying, control who eats what and how much... You simply have no idea. Sorry to say so! Ain't meant as an insult but just a logical deduction of your above statement.

I like the "biological" terminology. Makes a hell of alot more sense.

And yes I think the teas have passed the O barrier a tad.

[mushroombrew]

@ Only Ornamental

If we use the carbon atom as the definition, which I like, I think a great deal of O framers would find out they are feeding IO... teas for sure right?

[MrBungle]

[bigganjabud]

Man I'm scared to post this but here I go

Shrooms man this is a Pandora box and that's all I'm going to say to anyone who has posted so far

My personal experience

Tried organic with a Wilma system and had blocked drippers that were ruined

Tried io with Wilma and pebbles and got further

Now after a mix of bits and bobs and getting my grows through to the chop I rekon it don't really matter tbh
Whatever style or system or medium if you look after your plants then you will get results

This is a bit like the chicken and egg argument

Or the who came first the chicken or the egg

The good thing about plants is there is a plethora of things and styles to choose or study and if I'm honest then it only matters to the individual

Some swear by o some by io some by semi o or semi io

The point I'm trying to make is all plants are different and so are growers and conditions

Who am I to tell anyone how to do anything, all I can do is demonstrate how I do what I do

AND NEVER BELIEVE I KNOW IT ALL

Namestae

[Cannabologist]

Originally Posted by mushroombrew

Although I share some of your opinions I do not voice them quite as harshly as you! lol

What genetics do you have that are so great they do not need flushing? I like the Light lime green buds I get when I starve my plants.

And I guess fam Gelato#33, Thin Mint GSC, Fire OG and GG#4 are all shit strains.

Because the taste difference between 1wk and 2 wks flush is drastic.
The burnt plant taste fades and terps come through at 2+wks.

That is my experience doing side by side flush times which I do with all new strains.

Tough love is tough! Sometimes people need a kick in the butt to get their head screwed back on straight.

Which is what I had said before ie. "why does this pot taste so bad"/"taste like that?"
"Because that's how it tastes, which is harsh and not good, and burning on your throat. Don't expect that to ever change no matter how much you rob your plant of nutrients at the end of it's life cycle."

They aren't shit but they also aren't smooth UNLESS they actually are... Which is unless you selected clones from seed that are, or was given one that is


I been growing the same shit since before I started posting on these forums, and it hasn't been any different in any real regard.

All the factors that people say are the most important (flush like this for XYZ days in this manner, cure like this for XYZ days in this manner, etc., etc), I've found are bullshit. And it makes sense too, because everyone you ask always has a different method or different opinion, and theirs is always of course best.

All the stuff they aren't telling you, they don't know, and don't focus on, that's the real shit to worry about and focus on. Feeding, lights, environment, and your genetics. We know these parameters, and they haven't changed for years now. But we want to ignore them in favor of something else.

If you have to flush to get smell to come out in your strains, you're probably not doing something properly (like burning the shit out of your plants with TOO much ferts, and thus you have to flush to remove some... Well course you aren't getting any taste, your plants are in a constant state of nutrient lockout from over fertilizing)... At least that'd be my opinion in regards as to what's going on and why you are incurring the results that you are.

Cause, that's another first one on me that I've ever heard rofl "you gotta flush your plants to get the smell/taste to come out/come back".. I mean.. Jesus... I gotta be honest with you, nobody has to or should have to do that... If you are getting burnt plant taste, you are doing something wrong, have harsh tasting plants, aren't trimming properly, etc., etc.