[mushroombrew]

Originally Posted by jidoka

I believe your opening statement is wrong. Of course plants can take up N in organic form. And when they do they save a ton of energy converting the N into protein. And protein vs nitrate in plant sap is a far healthier plant.

The USDA is the agency governing Organic farming.
They do not recognize marijuana as a crop.

So your flowers cannot be USDA "Organic" certified yet.

Hope that clears up the opening statement.

[mushroombrew]

Originally Posted by jidoka

I believe your opening statement is wrong. Of course plants can take up N in organic form. And when they do they save a ton of energy converting the N into protein. And protein vs nitrate in plant sap is a far healthier plant.

I was under the impression plants convert amino acids into Nitrogen?


https://www.pnas.org/content/105/11/4524.full

[jidoka]

The one about n taken up as nh4 or no3...my bad

[mushroombrew]

Originally Posted by Only Ornamental

(see for example amino acid transporters such as LHT1, AAP1 and 5, or ProT2)

Very good reading. Thanks

[mushroombrew]

Originally Posted by jidoka

The one about n taken up as nh4 or no3...my bad

Oh I see. But a plant has access to NH4 immediately. Whereas nitrogen takes a little while to form.

Happy to find out otherwise.

[jidoka]

Nitrate to amino to peptide to protein. Each step requires energy that could be spent otherwise

[mushroombrew]

Yeah I get that.

I am still on the NH4 vs NO3 as a source of N.

I favor NO3 it causes pH to drift up rather than down.

Anybody know which source of Nitrogen takes less energy for the plant to utilize?

[Douglas.Curtis]

IME, the cleanest cannabis comes from tightly controlled nutrition. Cannabis does not enjoy a single uptake pathway, like the single passive ionic pathway most fruits and vegetables use. Cannabis is a hyper/dynamic accumulator. (I can hear the groans now "Here he goes again...Hyper/Diaper bullshit" How many of you have actually researched what I'm talking about yet?)

Properly amending organic soil, so everything breaks down and each element is only available in amounts required for superior quality cannabis, is ridiculously complicated.

When cannabis is exposed to only what it needs, when it needs it, the quality is the highest you will achieve. When elements are availablewhere a dynamic/hyper accumulator can absorb it in excess, quality will suffer. In addition to NPK and micros, cannabis is also capable of absorbing an amazing range of organic and inorganic molecules. Is it in the root zone? Most likely it's going to be in the finished flowers.

I take my hat off to organic growers who've put in the time. The time to run phenos multiple times, to find the exact day for harvest and nutritional requirements. The time to individually formulate an amendment program for each pheno, tailoring the fade of elements to coincide with harvest. The time to repeat testing and amending, until the balance for that pheno is perfect. I take my hat off to you, because you're significantly more dedicated to this field of expertise than I am.

It may not be perfect, but my hydro is extremely delicious and potent. I spend the time I save, using hydro instead of soil, on my family. To each their own, and I greatly appreciate every advancement made by organic growers in the field of quality flowers.

Go be Awesome!

[mushroombrew]

Nice post. I agree tailoring organics takes much more work. Like dialing in a pheno as you mentioned.

I think IO is advantageous as we can give plants instantly available nutrients at any given time.

But you can do the same with an organic tea. Locally to me teas are all the rage. I just wish it didnt taint their flowers with the same off flavor. Great terps shit taste.

So any opinions on flushing of salts O vs IO?

[ADHDGrower]

Even though this is very old debate, i just registered to icmag to participate in it

The most healthy Cannabis Plants i have seen, have allways been in organic Centric Gardens. No Till with Covercrops.

The Difference in Planthealth and Vitality is huge imo. Not a single Red Pigment on any Stem or Petiole. Where with mainly synthetic Gardens, Plants rarely have that shiny Look.

On the Subtopic of N Forms.

According to the much cited Book Teaming with Microbes, Plants prefer either NH4+ or NO3+, that is dependant on the Type of Plant. The woodier Plants like Trees prefer NH4+, where Grasses and anything Annual prefers NO3-. This is also in Relation to PH and Bacterial vs Fungal Dominance. Bacteria are more suited to making NO3- availible in a high PH, where Fungus have better Tools for NH4- Absorbtion, Acids that lower the PH. Contradictory is that NH4 fixing Bacteria are supposed to like higher PH.

Formulating my own Fertilizers i try to avoid NH4+ completely, which can make archieving an even N/K Ratio for Veg difficult.

Canna uses no NH4+ in any of their non Soil Formulations, Tomatoes are supposed to Fruit much less with major NH4, Annuals prefer Bacterially dominated Soils(according to TwM). So thats why i choose this Route, even though i have used NO3/NH4 Ratios of 2:1 on Coco in the Past with relative Success.


PS: Greetings to OO, allways looking forward to reading your Posts