[h.h.]

Originally Posted by moose eater

Thanks. I didn't mean to heighten any concerns.

The question I had, though, is, are you layering the various ingredients you described as a tea-source through which your water is passed, or strictly as a potting mulch, or both, or ????

Thanks again.

(*Whether it matters or not, I tried to rep you, and I'm told I can't vote on any more posts today.. when ever 'today' began..)

It would be both. The mulch is decomposing. Adding nitrogen rich top dress to the mulch acts as a catalyst. Oatmeal starch sticks it together. At that point you could add some kelp, vermacompost. a little DE for the critters, seed meals.

I appreciate the rep attempt. Too many reps and folks might think that I know more than I do. That usually gets me in trouble. I try not to solicit them.

[moose eater]

Thanks for the clarification.

I assume though that you're not talking about two different reservoirs in the dual purpose, but rather just the plant container, and reserving run-off?

Re. the rep, if you're willing to dialogue, trying to be helpful (or even humorous) that exceeds many persons' willingness, thus I figure the rep is earned. Everybody's got a strong suit. Some more than others.

BTW, everybody in the newer test recipe looks content -except- the GTH#1. Last night she was ready for water, to which I added (per gallon of H2O) 3 ml fulvic acid (Golden Goddess), 3 ml humic acid (a stash of Aunt Engy's H2), and 2 ml cal-mag. All just as sort of a mild (very mild) booster.

Of the various tests, she has the (with lights-off), notably drooping darker leaf of increased N, which I'd already mentioned would come down in the future by 25% to 40% (*She's apparently more sensitive to N than others in the same mix).

There's no obvious clawing at the tips, so she's not in advanced stages of excess N, and only getting water for the most part now.

The Super Lemon Haze and Widow Bomb both look pretty happy, with varying mid-green appearances of health, no droopiness with lights off, nice leaf turgor, etc.

So I'm guessing that GTH#1 is simply a bit more finicky. We'll either get along together, or we won't. I'm willing to change a bit if she is.. At the moment, no divorce attorneys or large sheers in our (immediate) future.

Originally Posted by h.h.

It would be both. The mulch is decomposing. Adding nitrogen rich top dress to the mulch acts as a catalyst. Oatmeal starch sticks it together. At that point you could add some kelp, vermacompost. a little DE for the critters, seed meals.

I appreciate the rep attempt. Too many reps and folks might think that I know more than I do. That usually gets me in trouble. I try not to solicit them.

[DocTim420]

Originally Posted by moose eater

...So there's no known/advertised shelf-life for the Sea90?...

Some claim Sea90 is "sea salt", so, what is the shelf-life for "salt"? There is none--it lasts forever...just like Himalayan Salt (the pink stuff that all the foodies love).

[moose eater]

Thanks.

Originally Posted by DocTim420

Some claim Sea90 is "sea salt", so, what is the shelf-life for "salt"? There is none--it lasts forever...just like Himalayan Salt (the pink stuff that all the foodies love).

[moose eater]

As of 'lights on' last night, the GTH#1 seems to be getting past her nose-in-the-air obstinacy to the N levels, and regaining a tone of green to her upper portion more similar to the SLH, though not quite as light as the WB.

Ideally, the amounts involved in each amendment will eventually, through minor adjustments, find a happy medium (pun intended, I guess), where all varieties of cannabis involved would strike a balance, not withstanding later unique expressed needs for nutrient tea, etc.

The whole K, sulfur and mag balance thing being a problem in the past.

The N issue is much easier to balance; simply reduce it, and make up for any later needs with either N tea (EWC/High N guano) or 5-1-1 fish emulsion.

Bloom mixes in the past (early on, before the changes in so many variables <water, quality of amendments, especially guano, etc> made it more difficult to pin-point causes), had very/fairly low levels of N, and only modest to lower amounts of K, which were compensated for with regular addition of kelp meal extract(s) via tea, etc..

As stated, with kelp meal and related extracts falling from a 3 or 4 K value to a 2, and the salinity seemingly increasing over time, while likely possessing similar to original amounts of micro-nutes (??) that can become problems in excess, re. general stability of the plant, the changes in amendments assist in creating further challenges.

For the last bunch of years, I'd been using Green Acres brand dolomite lime (found at Lowe's). It had been a very clear 7 on ph when tested (right where good dolomite should test, in my understanding from my beginnings in this sort of effort)... For years it was an off-white in appearance, verging on beige. This last year it changed to closer to a pure bright white with slightly different consistency, resulting in WAY different hues when tested in a LaMott's soil test tray. Testing the effects on a given batch of soil render similar as original results, but testing the dolomite individually leads to hues of sorts I've never seen before, preceding the noted changes. And I keep my reagents up-to-date regularly, re. shelf-life, storage, etc..

Years ago I had read about bat shit reserves being taxed by the demands of organic gardening. True or not, it caused me to stop for a moment and consider the ironies in this. But the bottom line is that, somewhat logically speaking, with as much as these amendments are sought after by gardeners around the world, there's bound to be frequent changes in sourcing, quality, etc. Who ever thought someone would write about a bat shit shortage??!! ;^>)

Anyway, onward....

[h.h.]

While we are all born with infinite knowledge, much of what we know is wrong. I always want to make the point of disqualifying myself in an attempt to explain that I am only here to shed false premises without the misfortune of infecting others. I share my experiences through a broken lens and I leave the expertise up to the experts.

Lack of dialogue. We are structured into a society of students and teachers, when in reality, they are both the same. We are told that if we don't know the answer, that we are to sit down and shut up. Back to infinite knowledge. We know all the answers. Dialog is a filtering process. Sing along with Mitch. Before we can learn, we must know how to teach. We teach ourselves or we fool ourselves.

It's that bat guano thing that we need to move past. Yes, I can preach as I sin. Organics is just the scratching post. my quest, often to the detriment of the plant, is to find sustainable local alternatives.
It's that whole earth thing. Everything is interconnected. As my friend Owsley once told me.(not really) "It's all the same FN thing."

[moose eater]

In my early adulthood, I attended an alternative school in the Yukon Territory of Canada, in the mid-70s, that subscribed in part to the contents of your second paragraph. While it was a major spiritual and developmental note in days gone by, I've found many that left there to be hooked on 'what was' in terms of relationship, while forgetting the idealism and dreams that truly fueled that time. I no longer attend those reunions. Too much disappointment and anger. But getting 'hooked on what was' is a human foible, among many.

I appreciate the limitations you describe, and have recently found that at least a couple or three of my primary premises were wrong. Learning from others sometimes inherently involves the risk of taking on some of their incorrect perspectives, as well.

Been a fan of Mr. Owsley for 4-1/2 decades myself.

Folks in this area, in the bush in particular, seeking to create organic planting medium, often/sometimes use loam with composted birch leaves (and similar), bark, etc.

A lot of effort for what can be found in bulk for reasonable money, but then there's the issue of amendments not always being as advertised, too. And real sand near me is a scarcity, thus perlite takes on a primary role inside and out..

Anyway, thanks.

Originally Posted by h.h.

While we are all born with infinite knowledge, much of what we know is wrong. I always want to make the point of disqualifying myself in an attempt to explain that I am only here to shed false premises without the misfortune of infecting others. I share my experiences through a broken lens and I leave the expertise up to the experts.

Lack of dialogue. We are structured into a society of students and teachers, when in reality, they are both the same. We are told that if we don't know the answer, that we are to sit down and shut up. Back to infinite knowledge. We know all the answers. Dialog is a filtering process. Sing along with Mitch. Before we can learn, we must know how to teach. We teach ourselves or we fool ourselves.

It's that bat guano thing that we need to move past. Yes, I can preach as I sin. Organics is just the scratching post. my quest, often to the detriment of the plant, is to find sustainable local alternatives.
It's that whole earth thing. Everything is interconnected. As my friend Owsley once told me.(not really) "It's all the same FN thing."

[moose eater]

I'd hypothesized that the lack of turgor in the GTH#1 was due to either/or 1.) High N, with limited immediately available P and only moderately available K in a mix not allowed to 'cook,' 2.) Total dissolved solids/EC in the soil leading a more sensitive sativa to rebel a bit, 3.) General dislike of the array of nutes, 4.) A curse I can't shake wherein trying to re-locate that once upon-a-time metaphysical balance of horticultural 'surfing' as an art form is being denied.

None the less, last night, all of the girls received another boost of the 3 ml each of fulvic and humic acids, 2 ml each of cal-mag, 1 drop Super-thrive Vitamin B, and.... 2 tsp of some (fairly old but usable) Maxi-Crop extract, (per gallon of H2O) though I hesitated for a bit, due to the N component of this, as well as the amount of organic K and micro-nute sources already in the mix.

I abstained from an initial thought of dissolving a small amount of wood ash in the watering, instead of the Maxi-Crop, due to not wanting to raise the ph any at all. That, and the original organic recipe years and years ago had prescribed Maxi-Crop at -every- watering, pretty much.

I'm still hesitant to go that route (every watering with Maxi-Crop) as the make-up of MC has changed a bit over the years, and the soil mix involved is no longer -quite- the same mix.

Anyway, initial survey indicates the GTH#1 is less droopy with lights off, while both SLH and WB are slightly less erect with lights off, but still not droopy.

Whether the organics awakening and beginning a more evenly matched release, or the results of the Maxi-Crop with or without the mix becoming more active, it looks like an improvement. And the reduced leaf size, relative to over-feeding in efforts gone by, is not present yet. Though the WB has not achieved the respectable leaf size the SLH and GTH#1 have.

Of the three varieties, WB has been the slowest to absorb the moisture and feed from her pots, yet has greater turgor than the rest, so I'm not sure she's overwhelmed by the nutes; her color is perhaps the best balanced of them all, despite her up-take of feed and water indicating she has lots to chew on.

The original information from the folks I recalled as addressing themselves as the Marry Danksters, was to feed the teas (High N for veg and high P for bloom) until the start of evidence of burning at the leaf tips occurred, meaning to keep the plants at maximum intake but not much more. Some would argue that if you have fed the plants with organics to the point that these symptoms occur, then you've already gone too far. Though I'd counter that this in part depends on concentration of nutes in each feeding.

Anyway, they're there, they're alive, the internodes at the tops of the stalks aren't outrageously spaced out, premature pistils showing on the GTH#1, and maybe a bit on the SLH, and none of them look like they're in need of the ICU.. So I think, for now, all's well.

Time to clean out the tea buckets, sterilize the air lines for the air pump, score a handful of new air stones, re-sterilize the nylon stockings in a simple bleach and water solution, and prepare to brew some mild bat shit, EWC, and mild ash teas in the near future. (*Need to locate the little 1/4" bungees and nylon no-see-um bug mesh to place over the tea buckets to help keep the pesky fungus gnats from finding a new favorite lounge).

[moose eater]

In the current soil regimen, with somewhat more N than I would put into the mix again, as sensitive to increased N as GTH1 seems to be, she still continues -nutrient and H2O uptake more quickly than her lesser affected counterparts, currently the WB and SLH.

GTH1's symptoms say she's over her (optimal bloom) limit in N, though not to the point of burning, etc., Yet she continues feeding and drinking as though everything's satisfactory. From that I currently hypothesize she's got less self-regulation on board where nutrient intake is concerned. Someone else may have a different view.

Currently only fed very lightly once, in terms of standard nutrient application, though I've used boosters (enzymes and carbs) a couple times now.

Limited ram curl in the very top couple leaves on SLH, but she has always stuck her nose in the air fairly readily where N is concerned.

Darker green on the GTH is moderating a bit, I suspect in re. to slowly declining N reserves, and increased availability of P.

The slow waltz of maturation and notes continues onward..

I'll be trying an old time poster's organic bloom mix in the future, before re-trying the current mix with reduced N.

And I may try to replicate the outcomes of the local person who simply mixed 1/3 Fishy Peats/Pete's with 1/3 OF and 1/3 Perlite, with occasional supplementing with Fox Farms Grow Big and Big Bloom (with BB in greater than mere adjunct quantities).

No word back yet from the soil science guy re. the implications of iron-eating bacteria in iron-rich soils, and implications for plants in containers. Probably going to require a follow-up call.

[moose eater]

It occurred to me some time ago that with all things in nature/the world being yin & yang, or in theory, more or less equally balanced in one way or another, the up-side of having late-stage nitrogen lock-out in ripening, is the reduced presence of chlorophyll and darker green material in the plants at a time that such things are undesirable. Achieving a sought-after condition, tho' getting there through non-conventional means, sort of. As long as the majority of the life-span hasn't been negatively affected, to the point of reaching full production.

Did another test doobie of GTH#1 last night. Pretty damned potent, with what was described early on by one persons as a "marshmallow fluffy up-beat high," followed by "Whoa!!" and a bit of "good night, already." ;^>)

I suspect she's a keeper, despite her leggy-ness, thinner/weaker stalks than other sativas present, and tendency to drink more N than is right for her. "She can't hold her N." (I've heard worse things said about a female).