[moose eater]

If I'm reading correctly, you're not referring to your soil in pots, but rather a leeching system for gathering nutrients from the layered materials accrued in the run-off? Or are you doing both?

When I was 15, I had a collection of plants reported to possess some degree of psycho-active properties (few of them lived up to the hype in the books), but they included Cerus Peruvianus <sp?> and San Pedro cacti. Never composted either of them. Ate a few without any real benefits.

The theory that things which survive in harsh environments possess significant nutrient value is interesting. I'd not given it any thought before your writing. I would imagine the black beans, and things like that, render a significant amount of carbs and natural starches. That's what they do for us when we eat them, thus I suspect they'd do that for plant life too.

This is all stuff I'd need to do a fair bit of research on before I'd start adding amendments to replace things I've become more accustomed to using. The caution re. redundancy, and thus the potential to overwhelm plants with a given nutrient or micro-nutrient.

Looks like Fall chores will need to give way to some more reading. Though these days, if I open a book after any amount of labor, it parks itself across the bridge of my nose in short order.

I'll likely begin on-line searching with topics such as 'alternative organic gardening amendments,' and, 'use of legumes and garden produce in soil building' other than for the obvious, which we already do here; hosting a sizable compost bin, with two phases involved; rough and coarse stuffs we've just discarded, built from pallets joined to form an aerated cubicle, then turned out the following year or so into a 'finish bin,' made of spruce poles laid out cabin-style to the ground, with the finish compost turned a time or two before delivery to the veggie beds each spring.

This time of year we have a TON (probably literally a 1/4-ton or more) of plant materials to compost from the veggie garden(s), though that doesn't include refuse from the sizable potato field, as I don't recycle anything from there into other bins, due to the disease-prone nature of spuds.

This wasn't a particularly productive year for personal use dip-netted salmon for us, or there'd be at least a portion of 40-60 salmon worth of vertebrae, guts and heads in the compost, with a micro touch of added hydrated lime to accelerate the break-down, helping to prevent the broadcasting of scent that might bring unwanted visitors.. (a grizzly was sighted about 7 miles from here, and a sow black bear with a cub was seen the other day on our road; neither of which is welcome in my compost bins. ;^>) ).

Thanks again.

Originally Posted by h.h.

A structured lasagna style mulch held together by starches from various seeds and grains. A little dirt mixed in for minerals. This provides a simple compost tea as my water filters through. To this I can add hotter ingredients if needed. Cap it off with carbonous/brown material to slow the release of nitrogen.

I like to use finely ground high protein seed to feed the herd. Black beans area good source. I used seeds off of my acacia tree. Sprinkled on top of the mulch and watered in.

The San Pedro was because I had it. It is said to have many qualities which brought me to wonder if perhaps it had some usefulness in the soil. Similar cacti harbor endobacteria that help to break down the minerals in the rock that they grow in. Not sure what actually transfers to the soil... Anything that grows in harsh conditions poises benefits IMO. I was growing in the desert. I wanted desert compost.

[moose eater]

I already diversify N-P-K sourcing fairly well, as well as some sub or micro-nutes. My thinking, as I've written before, has been that if I don't like eating the same meal every day, then my plants probably don't either. Though I'm sure they're less picky when it gets right down to it.

The Sea90 may be available up here, perhaps in Los Anchorage.

Not certain the Agrowinn product line is, but there's a couple of sources in Anchorage that, if anyone would have either product line up here, the two I'm thinking of might.

That'll be a 340 mile road-trip (or so) for me, coming up shortly, I hope.. as snow's on the way for this week here.

Thanks.

Re. perpetual harvests, there's already an invisible wall of kryptonite (so to speak) re. my stress levels after completing a throw, that often have me procrastinating re-entering the area used, for sometimes weeks after the fact, other than for basic maintenance. Perpetual anything along these lines would likely push frayed nerves and reduced energy over the line.

With super-cropping in a controlled/enclosed environment, running a maximum number of plants in a smaller space, thoroughly pruning anything below the canopy without mercy, the per plant productivity is lesser, veg time is somewhat shorter, the overall/sq. ft productivity is greater, and in a positive benefit, the majority of what is taken is comprised of primary colas, with very little scrub from below.. Just what I became comfortable with over time. Though self-discipline and energy are key to making that all happen as planned.

Originally Posted by DocTim420

Let me direct you to an interesting concept: naturally occurring elements. Of the 118 identified elements, 92 elements (#'s 1-94, except 43 & 61) are believed to occur naturally on Earth; the remaining 24 are classified as being "synthesized".

Sea90 (sea minerals, sourced from the Sea of Cortez but distributed out of Georgia) contains all 92 naturally occurring elements and over 50,000 organic compounds (plus a few exotic things from outer space--after all 3/4's of Earth's surface is "ocean").

Agrowinn rock dust (sourced locally from Encinitas) contains 57 naturally occurring elements. While Azomite (sourced from Utah) contains 70 naturally occurring elements (13 more than Agrowinn, but 22 less than Sea90).

Comparing Agrowinn and Azomite can be funny, Agrowinn has neartly twice the amount of Ca & Mg, but has less Si; both contain about same levels Al, but for me, Azomite is twice the price than Agrowinn.

One secret this old fucker discovered is the magic of "diversity". Not all sources of a given element are equal, but sourcing a single element (like Ca) from multiple sources (gypsum, bone meal, DE, rock dust, etc) provides me with better results in both plant health, as well as the two Q's (quality and quantity...in that order).

Others will champion simplicity and suggest no more than 16 minerals are adequate to grow killer ganja; that's fine for them. I am obviously in the 92 mineral camp (and staunch member of the "more the merrier gang"). I am actually quite happy with my perpetual garden's results--each plant yields not less than 1/4 lb of manicured buds every 7-8 days (45 or so harvests per year).

[DocTim420]

Imo, rock dust is rock dust. Of course there will always differences between regions and what not, so always get the best bargain you can. Some guys I know buy bulk rock dust from places that sell rocks, bricks and stone masonry items. Agrowinn just happens to be almost in my backyard (so I am not saying it is the best around--but for price/quality and availability, it works)--and part of Biodynamics principles is to buy local when/where it makes sense....that sustainable farming thing.

I order 50lb bucket of Sea90 ($50) through their website and pay around $45 for delivery; which imo still makes it a bargain...less than $2/lb. https://seaagri.com/products/sea-90-fertilizer/

1 & 10 lb bags are also available...dosage is 5ml/gallon of water and as a soil amendment at the rate of 17 grams/cuft of grow medium. A wee bit goes a long way.

[moose eater]

Are you using 'rock dust' to mean 'rock phosphate'? (*See my earlier comment re. giving up on Worm Gold, due to their adding rock phosphate and kelp to their castings, and making calculations more difficult). Adding it separately, and making reductions to other P sources, if you're referring to 'rock phosphate" would be OK.

I assume Sea90 is a liquid? (based on the reference to 5 ml)

What's the shelf life of Sea90?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by DocTim420

Imo, rock dust is rock dust. Of course there will always differences between regions and what not, so always get the best bargain you can. Some guys I know buy bulk rock dust from places that sell rocks, bricks and stone masonry items. Agrowinn just happens to be almost in my backyard (so I am not saying it is the best around--but for price/quality and availability, it works)--and part of Biodynamics principles is to buy local when/where it makes sense....that sustainable farming thing.

I order 50lb bucket of Sea90 ($50) through their website and pay around $45 for delivery; which imo still makes it a bargain...less than $2/lb. https://seaagri.com/products/sea-90-fertilizer/

1 & 10 lb bags are also available...dosage is 5ml/gallon of water and as a soil amendment at the rate of 17 grams/cuft of grow medium. A wee bit goes a long way.

[moose eater]

I found a 'evolved' recipe, written in Sharpie on the back of note cards with the original interpretation of the article re. Merry Danksters' soil, which I posted above, from long ago.

There are two recipes; one veg and one bloom. Both are dated March 2007

I'll write them below:

The reference to a 'part' is about 6 cups, +/-

Veg Soil:

10 Parts Earth Worm Castings

35 Parts BX Pro-Mix/Sunshine mix

7.5 Parts Vermiculite

5.5 Parts Perlite

<2 cups (30 TBSP) High N Bat guano (back then it would've been a 10-3-1)

2-cups dolomite lime

1-1/4 Cups (20 TBSP) Kelp Meal

10 TBSP Blood Meal

10 TBSP Steamed Bone Meal

3 TBSP Jersey Green Sand

2 TBSP Alaska Whitefish Bone Meal

<1/2 Cup (7 TBSP) Clean wood ash

2 teaspoons Super Sweet

-----------------------------------------------

Hydrated with 5-6 gallons treated with (per gallon of H2O):
-------
2 drops Super Thrive Vitamin B

4 ml cal-mag

1/2 tsp hygrozyme

1 TBSP Fox Farms 'Big Bloom' organic tea concentrate/extract

I tsp agricultural Epsom salts

------------------------------

Again, changes in quality of bat guano, well water, and supplements created challenges at times.

[moose eater]

2007 Bloom Soil:

(With a 'Part' equal to ~ 6 cups +/-)

11 Parts Earth Worm Castings

36 Parts BX Pro-Mix/Sunshine Mix

8 Parts medium to coarse Perlite

4 Parts Vermiculite

1-2/3 (~27 TBSP) cups dolomite lime

1-3/4 cups High P Bat guano (at that time, 3-10-1)

1/4 Cup (4 TBSP) Blood Meal

1-1/4 cups (20 TBSP) Kelp Meal

1/3 Cup (~5-1/3 TBSP) Alaska Whitefish Bone Meal

1/2 cup (8 TBSP) Steamed Bone Meal

2/3 cup (~11 TBSP) clean wood ash

1/4 cup (4 TBSP) Jersey Green Sand

2/3 cup (~11 TBSP) High N bat guano (back then, a 10-3-1)

1/4 cup (4 TBSP) agricultural epsom salts (*Mixed in soil tumble, as opposed to with the H2O)

----------------------------------------

Hydrated with 5-6 gallons untreated well water, treated, per gallon, with:

2 drops Super-Thrive

1/4 to 1/2 tsp Dyna-Grow Bloom

1 tsp hygrozyme

(*Though in both veg and bloom soil recipes, the hygrozyme may have been a later addition, following consultation via PM with a then-well-known guru here at ICMag. As was the humic acid that came later).

[DocTim420]

Originally Posted by moose eater

Are you using 'rock dust' to mean 'rock phosphate'? (*See my earlier comment re. giving up on Worm Gold, due to their adding rock phosphate and kelp to their castings, and making calculations more difficult). Adding it separately, and making reductions to other P sources, if you're referring to 'rock phosphate" would be OK.

I assume Sea90 is a liquid? (based on the reference to 5 ml)

What's the shelf life of Sea90?

Thanks.

No. Rock dust is ground up, pulverized, powdered rock. https://www.fertilizeronline.com/rockdust.php

Sea90 is not liquid, rather it is a slightly granulated dry medium. Check out their website in my earlier link for more info.

I use CalPhos, (sometimes referred to as "soft rock phosphate") but that's a separate conversation and nothing to do with charging biochar.

BTW, I measure my amendments with a scale (grams) not by volume (cups). Reason? Accuracy; density changes from batch to batch and the amount of compaction can vary day to day. And for those of us that think beyond NPK, accurately calculating the content of other 89 naturally occurring elements is now possible (and easily performed on a spreadsheet).

Example, 1 cup is equal to about 237 ml and if we assume 1 ml = 1 gram of said amendment. Then depending on compaction of that amendment, the cup could weigh more or less 237 grams...especially if the amendment is Fossil Shell Flour (food grade DE sourced from fresh water sources). Put some FSF in a jar, seal it and shake it up, then measure a cup worth and compare that to reaching inside the 50lb bag and scooping up a cups worth. I guarantee the first cup will weigh less than the second cup. BTW, 70 grams of FSF is equal to about 1 cup (more or less).

Consistency of quality and quantity is my priority....if that makes sense. BTW, running a perpetual machine does require preplanning, but once the machine is operating and running, it basically runs itself. Harvested plants go out, new plants go in. Just feed the machine.

[h.h.]

Originally Posted by moose eater

If I'm reading correctly, you're not referring to your soil in pots, but rather a leeching system for gathering nutrients from the layered materials accrued in the run-off? Or are you doing both?

When I was 15, I had a collection of plants reported to possess some degree of psycho-active properties (few of them lived up to the hype in the books), but they included Cerus Peruvianus <sp?> and San Pedro cacti. Never composted either of them. Ate a few without any real benefits.

The theory that things which survive in harsh environments possess significant nutrient value is interesting. I'd not given it any thought before your writing. I would imagine the black beans, and things like that, render a significant amount of carbs and natural starches. That's what they do for us when we eat them, thus I suspect they'd do that for plant life too.

This is all stuff I'd need to do a fair bit of research on before I'd start adding amendments to replace things I've become more accustomed to using. The caution re. redundancy, and thus the potential to overwhelm plants with a given nutrient or micro-nutrient.

Looks like Fall chores will need to give way to some more reading. Though these days, if I open a book after any amount of labor, it parks itself across the bridge of my nose in short order.

I'll likely begin on-line searching with topics such as 'alternative organic gardening amendments,' and, 'use of legumes and garden produce in soil building' other than for the obvious, which we already do here; hosting a sizable compost bin, with two phases involved; rough and coarse stuffs we've just discarded, built from pallets joined to form an aerated cubicle, then turned out the following year or so into a 'finish bin,' made of spruce poles laid out cabin-style to the ground, with the finish compost turned a time or two before delivery to the veggie beds each spring.

This time of year we have a TON (probably literally a 1/4-ton or more) of plant materials to compost from the veggie garden(s), though that doesn't include refuse from the sizable potato field, as I don't recycle anything from there into other bins, due to the disease-prone nature of spuds.

This wasn't a particularly productive year for personal use dip-netted salmon for us, or there'd be at least a portion of 40-60 salmon worth of vertebrae, guts and heads in the compost, with a micro touch of added hydrated lime to accelerate the break-down, helping to prevent the broadcasting of scent that might bring unwanted visitors.. (a grizzly was sighted about 7 miles from here, and a sow black bear with a cub was seen the other day on our road; neither of which is welcome in my compost bins. ;^>) ).

Thanks again.

To be clear, I'm not presently growing MJ. When I was, I grew in pots both indoors and out, as well as outdoors in the ground. I mulch the same way in both cases. None of this information is MJ specific other than perhaps the extra work involved. IOW I don't grind beans for my pansies. However a plant is a plant, a healthy plant is a healthy plant.

I never ate the San Pedro. I'm not looking for too many new experiences anymore. They tend to make you old.
It did spark my interest as a medicinal plant however.

I'm not saying that plants grown in harsh conditions harbor greater nutritional value. Those grown in highly mineralized soil should have a higher mineral content. IMO and with a limited Google research, those grown in harsh conditions have an adapted micro ecosystem that allows them to exist. Spraying my plants with a yucca compost tea certainly seemed to have benefits in the hot sun. If you dig up a yucca in the desert, the surrounding soil is black.

Look for the qualities you want, that match the conditions that you're growing in..
Willow trees, grow fast and burn clean. It was commercially used, so there is a lot of research. A lot of plants have the same qualities though.
Alfalfa is green. So are my weeds. They're organic.
Horsetail stands tall and is a good source of silica. I see the same qualities in cactus, aloe vera and such. Not necessarily a desired quality if flexibility is important. I.E. Supercropping.
Acacia trees feed themselves through seed drop.
Everything in the plant is pretty much plant available to another plant. True of many animal products as well.

It's all in the worm bin and through "mineralization". Read "dirt".

Buffer it, make sure you can get air to it and water through it. Make sure it supports the plant and isn't too heavy if you have to move it.

[moose eater]

Thanks. I didn't mean to heighten any concerns.

The question I had, though, is, are you layering the various ingredients you described as a tea-source through which your water is passed, or strictly as a potting mulch, or both, or ????

Thanks again.

(*Whether it matters or not, I tried to rep you, and I'm told I can't vote on any more posts today.. when ever 'today' began..)

Originally Posted by h.h.

To be clear, I'm not presently growing MJ. When I was, I grew in pots both indoors and out, as well as outdoors in the ground. I mulch the same way in both cases. None of this information is MJ specific other than perhaps the extra work involved. IOW I don't grind beans for my pansies. However a plant is a plant, a healthy plant is a healthy plant.

I never ate the San Pedro. I'm not looking for too many new experiences anymore. They tend to make you old.
It did spark my interest as a medicinal plant however.

I'm not saying that plants grown in harsh conditions harbor greater nutritional value. Those grown in highly mineralized soil should have a higher mineral content. IMO and with a limited Google research, those grown in harsh conditions have an adapted micro ecosystem that allows them to exist. Spraying my plants with a yucca compost tea certainly seemed to have benefits in the hot sun. If you dig up a yucca in the desert, the surrounding soil is black.

Look for the qualities you want, that match the conditions that you're growing in..
Willow trees, grow fast and burn clean. It was commercially used, so there is a lot of research. A lot of plants have the same qualities though.
Alfalfa is green. So are my weeds. They're organic.
Horsetail stands tall and is a good source of silica. I see the same qualities in cactus, aloe vera and such. Not necessarily a desired quality if flexibility is important. I.E. Supercropping.
Acacia trees feed themselves through seed drop.
Everything in the plant is pretty much plant available to another plant. True of many animal products as well.

It's all in the worm bin and through "mineralization". Read "dirt".

Buffer it, make sure you can get air to it and water through it. Make sure it supports the plant and isn't too heavy if you have to move it.

[moose eater]

Thanks. Too many years and other factors prevent me from doing anything that doesn't have a defined beginning and end in this regard.

Keeping mothers around is a different deal. But the greater effort has to have a beginning and an end for my peace of mind.

Thanks for the clarification of the rock dust versus rock phosphate, as well as the Sea90 description.

So there's no known/advertised shelf-life for the Sea90?

As far as weighing components, I'm not there yet, but figure that as long as moisture content is controlled in the dry, more significant amendments, then it's fairly close.

Thanks again!

Originally Posted by DocTim420

No. Rock dust is ground up, pulverized, powdered rock. https://www.fertilizeronline.com/rockdust.php

Sea90 is not liquid, rather it is a slightly granulated dry medium. Check out their website in my earlier link for more info.

I use CalPhos, (sometimes referred to as "soft rock phosphate") but that's a separate conversation and nothing to do with charging biochar.

BTW, I measure my amendments with a scale (grams) not by volume (cups). Reason? Accuracy; density changes from batch to batch and the amount of compaction can vary day to day. And for those of us that think beyond NPK, accurately calculating the content of other 89 naturally occurring elements is now possible (and easily performed on a spreadsheet).

Example, 1 cup is equal to about 237 ml and if we assume 1 ml = 1 gram of said amendment. Then depending on compaction of that amendment, the cup could weigh more or less 237 grams...especially if the amendment is Fossil Shell Flour (food grade DE sourced from fresh water sources). Put some FSF in a jar, seal it and shake it up, then measure a cup worth and compare that to reaching inside the 50lb bag and scooping up a cups worth. I guarantee the first cup will weigh less than the second cup. BTW, 70 grams of FSF is equal to about 1 cup (more or less).

Consistency of quality and quantity is my priority....if that makes sense. BTW, running a perpetual machine does require preplanning, but once the machine is operating and running, it basically runs itself. Harvested plants go out, new plants go in. Just feed the machine.