Register ICMag Forum Menu Features Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
You are viewing our:
in:
Forums > Marijuana Growing > Cannabis Growing Outdoors > Wider pots or more soil what do you think?

Thread Title Search
Post Reply
Wider pots or more soil what do you think? Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-21-2017, 02:57 AM #1
Ibechillin
Masochist Educator

Ibechillin's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Tacoma, Washington 47n
Posts: 1,496
Ibechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond repute
Wider pots or more soil what do you think?

Please read all of the thread before commenting!

ive seen alot of people mention wider is better when it comes to pots, and some people say just use bigger holes/pots with more soil and want to hear what peoples experiences have been. From what I understand feeder roots reside in the top 12" of the soil and travel outward. So is there really any reason to plant in a taller container if i can watch them and feed/water as they need it?

Im using a 100 gallon fabric pot now 38" diameter and 20" tall. Wanted to get some thoughts/opinions on using the Big Bad Beds vs doubling my expenses using 200 gallon pots next season?

200 gallon smart pot is 50" diameter and 24" tall. Uses double the soil, double the nutrients and water.
Big Bad Beds, they are 50" diameter and 12" tall and hold 100 gallons of soil.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVOH View Post
open mind leaves room for growth
Quote:
Originally Posted by slownickel View Post
Guy, I have been testing coco for years, right out of the bag. It's all salty.

Suggest you drop the blind faith and use a bit of science.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Green View Post
For almost 50 years I've smoked weed to enhance reality, not to escape from it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibechillin View Post
Diffused light > Spectrum.
Science Of Lighting & Plant Reactions (Sticky Thread):

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=358147

Drying and Cure Process Explained In Depth (Sticky Thread):

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=358186

Pot Size, Root system and maximizing growth thread:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=344347

Silicon, The Misunderstood Element:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=352413

Humic and Fulvic acid information:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=352265


Last edited by Ibechillin; 05-12-2018 at 08:04 AM..
Ibechillin is offline Quote


Old 07-21-2017, 04:23 AM #2
FizzyB
Newbie

Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 14
FizzyB is on a distinguished road
Whatever you choose, consider making raised beds or just slicing up the bottom of your pots to allow your roots to grow beneath the container. Best of both worlds!
FizzyB is offline Quote


2 members found this post helpful.
Old 07-21-2017, 12:10 PM #3
Limeygreen
Senior Member

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,175
Limeygreen has much to be proud ofLimeygreen has much to be proud ofLimeygreen has much to be proud ofLimeygreen has much to be proud ofLimeygreen has much to be proud ofLimeygreen has much to be proud ofLimeygreen has much to be proud ofLimeygreen has much to be proud ofLimeygreen has much to be proud ofLimeygreen has much to be proud ofLimeygreen has much to be proud of
twelve inches will dry out faster than 24 inch and then be more susceptible to being blow around in the wind which would put more stress on the root system. I would go no less than 24 inches but wide, the wider you go you should have so more depth, 36 inches would be the deepest you should need to go.
__________________
Your best you try, to harm I and I, Aiming to kill.
But I love you still Cause you are here to make prophecy fulfill.
Limeygreen is offline Quote


Old 07-21-2017, 03:53 PM #4
aridbud
automeister


aridbud's Avatar

Join Date: May 2013
Location: the best place on earth
Posts: 8,978
aridbud is a survivoraridbud is a survivoraridbud is a survivoraridbud is a survivoraridbud is a survivoraridbud is a survivoraridbud is a survivoraridbud is a survivoraridbud is a survivoraridbud is a survivoraridbud is a survivor
Depth and width make a difference.
__________________
ICMAG SERVER FUND LINK https://www.seedbay.com/vendor/icmag/

35/20 happening ongoing through January 24, '21

“Plant seeds of happiness, hope, success, and love; it will all come back to you in abundance. This is the law of nature.” ~Steve Maraboli~
"Never, ever be afraid to make some noise and get in good trouble, necessary trouble." ~John Lewis~

afterthought autos
We are passionate auto breeders growing organically 2008. We offer 37 autoflowering strains, 17 photoperiods, 14 CBD hemp hybrids via catalog in our decades of breeding expertise. afterthought autos - we are unique quality autoflower breeders for medical conditions and recreational stimulus. Auto breeding 15 years, we're running strong! We're on SEEDBAY again...trio of goodies - autos, photoperiods and CBD hemp strains!


https://www.icmag.com/ic/forumdisplay.php?f=65770
aridbud is offline Quote


Old 07-21-2017, 04:07 PM #5
pumpkinpie eyes
Member

pumpkinpie eyes's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: hicksville, USA
Posts: 529
pumpkinpie eyes has much to be proud ofpumpkinpie eyes has much to be proud ofpumpkinpie eyes has much to be proud ofpumpkinpie eyes has much to be proud ofpumpkinpie eyes has much to be proud ofpumpkinpie eyes has much to be proud ofpumpkinpie eyes has much to be proud ofpumpkinpie eyes has much to be proud ofpumpkinpie eyes has much to be proud ofpumpkinpie eyes has much to be proud ofpumpkinpie eyes has much to be proud of
Yessir! Got plant pouches on eBay. 7 & 15 gal fer autos and 50 gallon photos.
pumpkinpie eyes is offline Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 05-09-2018, 06:43 PM #6
Ibechillin
Masochist Educator

Ibechillin's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Tacoma, Washington 47n
Posts: 1,496
Ibechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond repute
Update:

Source: https://www.grassrootsfabricpots.com/shorty-soil-saver/

"So, it turns out that the root system of cloned plants primarily grow outward instead of downward because of the absence of a taproot. Our expert clone-growing friends have said that there could be a need for more top-dressing in a Shorty, but that is a great opportunity for more nutrients for the thirsty plants.

If you’re converting from a Classic Pot style, match the size of your pot base diameter rather than the gallon size. For example, if you’re used to using a 100 gallon pot, convert to a 65 gallon Shorty Soil Saver™."

30 gallon shorty 30" wide by 10" tall
45 gallon shorty 32" wide by 14" tall
65 gallon shorty 38" wide by 14" tall
100 gallon shorty 45" wide by 14" tall
200 gallon shorty 65" wide by 14" tall
300 gallon shorty 80" wide by 14" tall
400 gallon shorty 87" wide by 16" tall

My 100 gallon pot is 38" wide and 20" tall, a 65 gallon shorty would be 38" wide and 14" tall, could just fill larger pots ~halfway if you already have them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FizzyB View Post
allow your roots to grow beneath the container. Best of both worlds!
^this would probably work well with the shorter and wider pots.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVOH View Post
open mind leaves room for growth
Quote:
Originally Posted by slownickel View Post
Guy, I have been testing coco for years, right out of the bag. It's all salty.

Suggest you drop the blind faith and use a bit of science.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Green View Post
For almost 50 years I've smoked weed to enhance reality, not to escape from it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibechillin View Post
Diffused light > Spectrum.
Science Of Lighting & Plant Reactions (Sticky Thread):

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=358147

Drying and Cure Process Explained In Depth (Sticky Thread):

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=358186

Pot Size, Root system and maximizing growth thread:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=344347

Silicon, The Misunderstood Element:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=352413

Humic and Fulvic acid information:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=352265


Last edited by Ibechillin; 05-10-2018 at 07:34 AM..
Ibechillin is offline Quote


3 members found this post helpful.
Old 05-09-2018, 07:16 PM #7
Lester Beans
Frequent Flyer

Lester Beans's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: ~ In The Garden Pulling Weeds ~
Posts: 4,789
Lester Beans is a survivorLester Beans is a survivorLester Beans is a survivorLester Beans is a survivorLester Beans is a survivorLester Beans is a survivorLester Beans is a survivorLester Beans is a survivorLester Beans is a survivorLester Beans is a survivorLester Beans is a survivor
The bigger the better. I prefer deep over wide.

Check out Motherlode Gardens thread. The way Schrews grows yields amazing results.
Lester Beans is offline Quote


2 members found this post helpful.
Old 05-09-2018, 10:04 PM #8
Bigbruce
Member

Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 56
Bigbruce is just really niceBigbruce is just really niceBigbruce is just really niceBigbruce is just really niceBigbruce is just really niceBigbruce is just really niceBigbruce is just really niceBigbruce is just really niceBigbruce is just really nice
I bought some cheap 15gal smart pots from the dollar store and they are much wider than tall and I don't think I would use them for weed, just too shallow. I wouldn't want a height less than 12".
Bigbruce is offline Quote


Old 05-09-2018, 10:09 PM #9
redheadfreakin
Unsung Zero

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 184
redheadfreakin has disabled reputation
Shallow is where it's at.
4 inches, baby! (see 4 inch rule)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XvQqYQX9Qw
redheadfreakin is offline Quote


2 members found this post helpful.
Old 05-10-2018, 07:33 AM #10
Ibechillin
Masochist Educator

Ibechillin's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Tacoma, Washington 47n
Posts: 1,496
Ibechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond reputeIbechillin has a reputation beyond repute
Shcrews 15-20lbs plants in 1000 gallon soil mounds are some of the largest/highest yielding individual trees/plants ive seen, but that style of growing does not work for everybody, lol.

(Im referencing fabric pots during this explanation because there are alot of threads easily found by searching, discussing the yields in them and it gives standard to the dimensions and soil usage. What i explain here can easily be verified by google searching the topics i discuss here and reading threads from the various grow forums going back close to 20 years. I have done a considerable amount of research in reference to digging different dimension holes outdoors and yields as well, it also correlates closely with my findings.

Shcrews as an example:

15lbs = 240 oz ÷ 1000 gallons of soil = 0.24 oz per gallon of soil.
20 lbs = 320 oz ÷ 1000 gallons of soil = 0.32 oz per gallon of soil.

In my experience/research ive settled on 1 oz per gallon of soil as a reasonable average up to a 65 gallon fabric pot 32" wide by 18" tall. From sizes bigger ive noticed rapidly diminishing oz per gallon of soil yield returns.

Its not uncommon for growers to claim yeilding 4lbs out of a 65 gallon fabric pot.

4lbs = 64 oz ÷ 65 gallon = 0.98 oz per gallon

I have also found quite a few claims over 1 oz per gallon of soil, highest claim was "over 7lbs Blue Dream" from a 65 gallon fabric pot watered everyday.

5lbs = 80 oz ÷ 65 gallon = 1.23 oz per gallon
7lbs = 112 oz ÷ 65 gallon = 1.72 oz per gallon

Fabric Pot Dimensions:

65 gallon 32" wide by 18" tall
100 gallon 38" wide by 20" tall
200 gallon 50" wide by 24" tall
300 gallon 60" wide by 24" tall
400 gallon 70" wide by 24" tall

The notable variables that change between 65 gallon and larger fabric pots:

1. Considerably wider, up to 218%

2. Minimal change in height, no change in height after 200 gallons size. Only 25% taller over an increase of up to 6x the soil volume!

Shorty Soil Saver Fabric Pot Dimensions:

65 gallon shorty 38" wide by 14" tall
100 gallon shorty 45" wide by 14" tall
200 gallon shorty 65" wide by 14" tall
300 gallon shorty 80" wide by 14" tall
400 gallon shorty 87" wide by 16" tall

The notable variables that change between 65 gallon and larger Shorty Soil Saver fabric pots:

1. Considerably wider, up to 228.9%

2. No change in height until 400 gallon, even then only 14% taller over an increase up to 6x the soil volume!

Fabric pots are typically a bit taller then the advertised size and filled to the brim typically hold more soil than their advertised gallon size. The best efficiency in terms of oz per gallon of soil yield from seedlings or clones seems to be at a max root depth of 14-16".

Oxygen At The Rootzone, Finding The Balance Of Water & Feed Strength, PH To Maximize Yield:

Quote:
Originally Posted by panhead
Pot size is nearly irrelevant to harvest weights as long as the plant has ample roots to uptake nessacary amounts of water & nutes , rootbound isnt an issue to worry about with plants who's life expectancy is 4 or 5 months , when i grew in soil i used 1.5 quart pots & set up a drip watering system , i was growing 4 to 5 ft tall bushes out of 1.5 quart pots , yeild will be based on useable light as long as the little pots supply adequate water & nutes, hence my using a drip feed on constant drip, my harvests were allways nearly a gram per watt , in the style of mediumless flood n drain aeroponics ive been running the last few yrs im hitting from 1& 1/4 to 1 & 1/2 grams per watt.
^source: A moderator on rollitup.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/who-grows...gallon.815675/

Cannabis roots love an alternating wet then dry cycle to maintain optimal oxygen levels in the root zone along with water and nutrients to maximize photosynthesis. This is why fabric pots were created, to increase oxygen at the rootzone. The fabric pot's sides can breathe and transpire to supply constant oxygen and help combat against over watering. The more drainage material you use (like perlite) reduces water holding capacity in your soil mix, also helping to combat against over watering and allowing for additional waterings/more dissolved oxygen.

When you water your plants the moving water also carries dissolved oxygen that the roots can readily absorb. Watering daily in the morning or multiple times a day creates growth rates hard to believe due to the constant re addition of oxygen at the roots when done correctly.

Oxygen at the rootzone is one of the main differences in the rapid growth in hydroponics and passive hydro like coco coir.

Over watering prevents oxygen from getting to the roots which is the worst enemy to a cannabis plant, it NEEDS oxygen at the roots to stay productive.

A good way to think of water being added to and transpiring from cannabis plants is like traffic on the freeway, you want it coming and going both ways 70mph, over and under watering is like a traffic jam that stops both directions of travel until the wreck is dealt with. The key is to find the balance between the right amount of water the plant is drinking at its current size and the max feed strength it can tolerate, then steadily increasing both over time.(irrigation keep sounding better and better right?)

People have amazing results hand watering coco coir plants drain to waste until totally rootbound in small pots and then hooking them up to irrigation.

The other main differences in the rapid growth from hydroponics and passive hydro like coco coir is maintaining optimal PH and soil biology for nutrient availability:

"Synthetic"/"Hydroponic" fertilizers contain the elements plants need in water soluble pure ionic forms available immediately for uptake, they can be used in both soil and hydroponic/soiless growing mediums. The fertilizer solution's PH must be adjusted to the correct level for the grow medium you are using before feeding!

For hydroponic/soiless growing mediums a PH fluctuating between 5.75 - 6.25 is ideal since not all nutrients are available at a one specific PH level. This chart demonstrates element availability at different PH levels for hydroponic/soiless growing mediums:



For soil growing a PH level anywhere between 6.25 and 7 is ideal for all nutrients to be available for uptake. This chart demonstrates element availability at different PH levels for soil growing mediums:



"Organic"/"Soil" fertilizers come in immediately available water soluble ionic forms, "slow release" unavailable forms and both forms at the same time. The plants roots only take up fertilizer in the pure ionic water soluble forms. The roots release acids called exudates and the beneficial bacteria along with the fungi in the soil help break down the unavailable "slow release" forms into the pure ionic water soluble forms that are available. (The beneficial bacteria and fungi digest the unavailable forms of the nutrients and excrete them into the available water soluble ionic forms, plants just cant get enough poo).

Even organic water soluble/liquid nutrients are only readily available to your plants if the PH is in the correct range. Organic nutrients are often fairly acidic PH naturally, or are made to be that way to prevent microbial activity for starting while they are on the shelf (think fish emulsion bottles going kaboom).

While you dont *have* to adjust the feed water PH for organic soil that has been buffered to maintain PH (such as when using dolomite lime) I still highly advise and recommend you to PH your feed water when growing in soil to avoid potential problems and maximize growth! When you add acidic feed solution to your PH buffered soil the soil PH drops until whatever is doing the buffering can raise it back up.

There are natural sources of PH Up and PH Down, many of which you can actually find around the house!

Organic "pH Down":

lime
lemon
vinegar
Earth Juice Natual PH Down (made from citric acid)

Organic "PH Up":

Earth Juice Natual PH Up (made from potassium bicarbonate, approved for organic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VerdantGreen View Post
hey Ulysses- im with you on the benefits of dolomite!

and the interests of getting this buffering/time thing nailed down I performed me a little experiment this morning.

I took a glass of water and put a tiny shot of my citric acid solution into it .
I measured the pH with my pen and it read 5.1.

(YES, I am an organic grower with a pH pen, part of a rebel alliance of heads that like to know the acidity of their water, the pHorce is strong within us – deal with it!)

I then took a half teaspoon of powdered dolomite lime and stirred it into the acidic water. Here is what happened to the pH :-
Original pH before addition of Dolomite = 5.1
1minute - pH had risen to 5.3
5 minutes – pH had risen to 5.8 – so within minutes we have a much more desirable pH plant-wise!
15 minutes – pH was 6.0 – doing its job nicely.
1 hr – pH was 6.3
2 hrs – pH is 6.4

ETA: 3 hrs - pH is 6.5
4hrs - pH is 6.6
5hrs - pH is 6.7
8hrs - pH is 6.9 - job pretty much done!

now I don’t claim that this experiment is mimicking the conditions in a pot perfectly, but I am very confident to conclude that powdered dolomite lime, well mixed into the soil, will do the job of buffering the pH of the soil possibly within minutes, certainly within hours of watering.

And bear in mind that the pH scale is logarithmic so a pH of 5 is many times more acidic than a pH of 6, and thus will react faster with the dolomite as can be seen in the experiment. As the pH gets nearer to 7 the buffering effect will slow down, but the pH is nearer what we desire anyway, and considering that the optimum availability pH for most macro and micro nutrients it between 6 and 7, the job that the dolomite is doing is, imo, exactly what we want from it.

Hope this helps.

May the pHorce be with you
V.
Conclusion:

Pots deeper than 16 inches take up more space than is justified by their yield. I want to attribute the difference with the larger pots to more difficulty maintaining optimum watering/feeding habits and conditions.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVOH View Post
open mind leaves room for growth
Quote:
Originally Posted by slownickel View Post
Guy, I have been testing coco for years, right out of the bag. It's all salty.

Suggest you drop the blind faith and use a bit of science.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Green View Post
For almost 50 years I've smoked weed to enhance reality, not to escape from it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibechillin View Post
Diffused light > Spectrum.
Science Of Lighting & Plant Reactions (Sticky Thread):

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=358147

Drying and Cure Process Explained In Depth (Sticky Thread):

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=358186

Pot Size, Root system and maximizing growth thread:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=344347

Silicon, The Misunderstood Element:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=352413

Humic and Fulvic acid information:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=352265


Last edited by Ibechillin; 03-09-2019 at 05:26 PM..
Ibechillin is offline Quote


11 members found this post helpful.

Post Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:18 AM.




This site is for educational and entertainment purposes only.
You must be of legal age to view ICmag and participate here.
All postings are the responsibility of their authors.
Powered by: vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.