[shaggyballs]

Please read some of this before voting yes to legalization and/or signing any petitions.

Legalization is a Bad Joke
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=340350

Vote no or else
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=287317

Marijuana Regulators Target Home Cultivation
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=337705

6 months jail time for Cannabis growers in California. I thought it was legal now WTF
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=338802

Cops are gonna get filthy rich with AUMA in Cali, no less than $50 million per year!
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=333646

[Mr Jay]

I voted yes for legalization in Oregon and I encourage others to vote yes in their state. Legalization laws are keeping the fuzz off of myself and many people I know.

[seeded]

If the spoils of war go to the victor how is it the government which declared a war on it's own citizens for generations gets to accept defeat and then write all the rules that result in them having all the money and power in the new legal market?

The war on drugs has always been about the money and since they come from plants you have to stop their spread by limiting their availability by taking out the competition which has the added benefit of making prices rise too. You have to remove just enough people that the price doesn't go too high or you take out the supply lines though because legalization is inevitable and you want black market prices and not what you would get given a realistic cost of production such as you would with corn or wheat. Once you've found that sweet spot it's just a matter of waiting until the public is willing to accept anything to make the madness end and that's what we're seeing now. People are becoming accepting of being locked out of the market entirely or given absolutely insane conditions like agreeing to surprise invasions of our privacy to see if we're within a plant count limit because people have suffered for so long they'll agree to anything to make it stop. They're hoping that once they get a foot in the door that laws can be changed but it's never going to happen so long as the government and their friends have any kind of financial interest in the matter which any rule or regulation they come up with ensures. They've already proven for generations how far they're willing to take their war against the people and now that the money is rolling in for them they're never going to give it up without a fight.

So who really wins the war if our enemy concedes defeat and then gets the spoils? It's certainly not us so I'll never accept their surrender or my own. As far as I'm concerned it's decriminalization or the war continues because if we give them the final say on things they're going to rape us blind through excessive taxation, invasions of privacy, continued enforcement and even imprisonment for those who step too far outside their legal system. Legalization is a continuation of the horror show but decriminalization makes it a free for all which truly makes us and the plant free while also stopping governments from sin taxing it as there's simply no laws on the books.

Short of that the laws must be written in a tomato model way that reflects the winners of the war and who gets the spoils, ie. the people and not the government. To not do so would be a huge injustice against each and every one of us because this war was declared against us all. We've all paid taxes that have funded it, paid black market prices 100x what they should be, been paranoid when hearing sirens, etc. and that's if we're lucky. Many of us have also lost everything from our pets and families to our freedom and some even their lives to the war our own governments declared against us so fuck giving them anything as a condition of their surrender. The spoils go to the victors of wars and since their "loss" results in a continuation of hostilities if they're allowed to surrender under their terms I refuse to accept them. There's no point if we're going to remain criminals because all we're doing by legalizing it is handing them the spoils which in the meantime we get to keep 100% tax free.

We may lose but so do they and I'd rather see that continue than I would to see them get everything while telling us that we won the war because at that point they'll also win the hearts and minds of the people and then we'll be well and truly fucked. We'll be seen as big, bad tax cheats that are trying to supply kids and screw the new legal system for everyone so there'll be traitors selling us out to protect the new legal market and if that doesn't work fast enough you know your new smart meter's going to do all the squealing they need for a warrant anyway. We all know they'll try to protect their investments any way they can so it's honestly better to keep the status quo than it is to surrender to their legalization because that's when their efforts are really going to ramp up against us.

[rolandomota]

Yea its really fun to get probation, fines, a criminal record, forfeit property and or go to jail thats much better than "legaly" growing at home with no permit or inspection for personal use. Even if homegrown is banned (Washington state) the law can be changed

[xavier7995]

Yeah...even if it's heavily regulated, that's still a hell of a lot better than winding up in jail over a plant. It would be great if you could grow weed and sell it at a farmers market or whatever, certainly something to work towards, but eh...

[C. Breeze]

IF we give them complete control of it they'll get rich off taxes....

as opposed to getting rich off seizures.....

I don't really feel the need to touch on the hilarity of that "IF" we give them control... but the rest...


I know that the government is unpopular, and know that you don't want to pay taxes, but you are holding cannabis hostage by tying it to your overall political agenda- and I dislike it when people like Obama, trump, sessions, you and other activists, and politicians do that.

It's so common as to be boring though. You take a hot button issue like cannabis, something that is polarizing, and that people are heavily emotionally invested in- and you use that to advance a separate cause- simply by co-opting that hot button issues supporters or detractors, meanwhile the issue of advancing safe and legal access to cannabis goes nowhere, encumbered as it is by the baggage of a constituency that has "bigger plans" It's a thin veil no matter who wears it.

I completely understand the desire for more reform and change on a grander scale- but like many cannabis users, I don't really support a lot of those notions- and feel it's disingenuous told keep holding us and the plant hostage.

I also feel like it shows a pretty basic lack of understanding regarding how the momentum of societal change is generated and maintained. Those wish for cannabis to be as regulated as tomatoes should be voraciously snatching every inch given even as they demand more- as opposed to stopping all progress in the name of what- "real progress."

Anyway it would be nice to see cannabis users be able to unify in there efforts instead of allowing our various social and political positions and agendas hold us back is my thought I guess.

[seeded]

Originally Posted by C. Breeze

IF we give them complete control of it they'll get rich off taxes....

as opposed to getting rich off seizures.....

I don't really feel the need to touch on the hilarity of that "IF" we give them control... but the rest...


I know that the government is unpopular, and know that you don't want to pay taxes, but you are holding cannabis hostage by tying it to your overall political agenda- and I dislike it when people like Obama, trump, sessions, you and other activists, and politicians do that.

It's so common as to be boring though. You take a hot button issue like cannabis, something that is polarizing, and that people are heavily emotionally invested in- and you use that to advance a separate cause- simply by co-opting that hot button issues supporters or detractors, meanwhile the issue of advancing safe and legal access to cannabis goes nowhere, encumbered as it is by the baggage of a constituency that has "bigger plans" It's a thin veil no matter who wears it.

I completely understand the desire for more reform and change on a grander scale- but like many cannabis users, I don't really support a lot of those notions- and feel it's disingenuous told keep holding us and the plant hostage.

I also feel like it shows a pretty basic lack of understanding regarding how the momentum of societal change is generated and maintained. Those wish for cannabis to be as regulated as tomatoes should be voraciously snatching every inch given even as they demand more- as opposed to stopping all progress in the name of what- "real progress."

Anyway it would be nice to see cannabis users be able to unify in there efforts instead of allowing our various social and political positions and agendas hold us back is my thought I guess.

The problem is the government has held us and the plant hostage and not the other way around. They declared the war and have refused all attempts from our side to end it. We've tried protests, getting access for medicinal reasons, offering them huge tax windfalls, changing the laws through direct action, etc. and every single attempt has failed multiple times. We've literally tried every legal option available to us to end the hostilities but nothing has worked so how are we meant to fight back?

Personally I say if we're in a war all options are on the table and there's one thing that rules their side which we need to attack, their budgets. Their budgets aren't infinite and for the vast majority of people on their side it's the only motivating factor for their actions. If they use up all their money they can apply for more funding next year but eventually they're going to be told to tighten their belts instead which essentially frees us because they're going to target meth heads tearing their towns to shreds over peaceful stoners growing a few harmless plants.

Now you're never going to convince a politician to reduce their budget as it would be seen as soft on crime so we need to give them death by a thousand cuts by forcing them to action. If we throw clumps of seed and dirt around schools, parks, community gardens, sides of highways, etc. where they could never allow such publicly grown plants to shame their ability to enforce the law as they'll have no choice but to send people out to get them. After a while they might ask people to remove the plants and not tell them about it to stop their budgets being eaten away but if they do that it's just a matter of acting like a paper boy and hitting everyone's front yards to make the problem one that now personally effects them and the public will tell the police to do their jobs again. Eventually though when it never lets up people are going to question why we're constantly growing plants we know are just going to be ripped up by the police and when it clicks that it's the only form of protest left to us they will try to get the laws changed for us because if they don't their local drug enforcement budgets are going to be forever used to rip seedlings instead of dealing with the fallout from meth and other nasty drugs.

[mittensmitten]

Michigan is regularly cited as the #1 State in the Country for Corruption. On top of #2 Louisiana.. None of this is unexpected.