Treating PM/mold in flower

Eager2Grow · Mar 27, 2017

Hey guys,

I posted previously about some problems I was having here.

After upping the nutes and treating with potassium bicarbonate I thought I was free and clear. But a few weeks later I am on day 24 of flower and am still having issues. The lower leaves seem to have a light white powder on them, and are gradually shrivelling up and dying.

It is hard for me to take decent photos, especially because the powder coating is rather light. I think that it must be PM or some other type of fungus as it is mainly affecting the lower areas of the plant where there is little air circulation.

I am wondering if it is safe for me to keep spraying plants with potassium bicarbonate in flower, and if there is anything else I can do at this stage to help combat this problem. I have a dehumidifier in the room and the RH is usually under 40%, but sometimes it gets up to about 45%. Turfing this grow is really not an option for me at this point so I need to do all I can do to salvage it, any advice at all would be appreciated. I will get some pics to add either later tonight or tomorrow.

Eager2Grow · Mar 27, 2017

Here are some photos, the damaged leaves are mostly lower down and I took some photos of the canopy as well.

DocTim420 · Mar 27, 2017

Try spraying with milk and water, particularly non-homogenized milk (aka raw milk). From personal experience, you can do this up to a week or so from harvest WITHOUT harming the buds.

For a wealth of info about using milk to fight PM, google this search term: site:icmag.com "milk" "mildew"

Start off with a milk:water ratio of 50/50 and foliar spray until leaves are dripping (be sure to get the under leaves). Repeat every other day and reduce the milk concentration for each application until you get to 10/90 (maintenance).

Here is a study that shows milk applications were superior to certain chemical fungicides http://www.agrar.de/agenda/bettiol.htm

Good luck!

cravin morehead · Mar 27, 2017

I've had pm only a couple times over the years in my indoor gardens. i've used Serenade, green cure (potassium bicarbonate basically), and green cleaner. all of them worked for me. I think Serenade worked the best though. I believe its organic, not sure. smells like rotted fish farts, but worked. I used it in my outdoor veggie garden during a big pm outbreak, took care of it straight away. but I wouldn't use it much later than a few weeks into flower, unless you like rotted fish fart buds...

cm

DocTim420 · Mar 27, 2017

Amen to that. Except instead of "rotten farts" I vote for the expression "dirty diapers". Interestingly though, if you mix milk with Serenade, then for some reason that stink "odor" is a whole lot less. I was going to mention Serenade for early flower treatment (but you beat me to it, lol)--but when you see these gorgeous buds being ruined with PM and you are weeks away from harvest then my vote is the milk/water treatment. After all, milk is water, amino acids, carbohydrate, fat, enzymes, bacteria, vitamins, and what not--and my experience with late milk treatments is a few days after treatment, buds seem to come alive (as in greener not browner) and they kinda favor or like the minute dosage of "milk food".

If the notion of spraying milk on buds that you plan to smoke bothers you, then a simple "winter shower" will wash away any residue. When I sprayed milk on my plants the very first time I was worried about any unintended consequences that milk would cause--so when I chopped the plant, I walked into the shower and rinsed the plants, then hung them upside down with a fan blowing on them until I saw no water. PIA, but I felt better at the time. The next harvest (a week later) I did not rinse after chop and compared the two batches...and saw/smoked/tasted/felt no difference--except the buds from the rinsed plant were more "larfy" and not as tight. So...if it were me, a 10% milk residue from spraying a week or so before harvest is something I would not worry about.

cyat · Mar 27, 2017

Prokure!!!

cravin morehead · Mar 27, 2017

cyat, just looked it up. Wow! that seems like some multipurpose good stuff. I looked at the liquid V. I think that may be what I might use for cleaning up the tent between runs now. I gotta check on price, as long as its not outrageous, I'll pick some up. thanks...

cm

* $30 for a concentrate to make only 1 quart on Amazon. Wow that's pricey stuff. I suppose if I was desperate for something I would try it. or desperatly battling pm... but I think I'll stick to bleaching my tent between runs. thanks though, that stuff sounds very good at what it does. maybe I'll check to find some bulk chlorine dioxide for my own mixing up.

king oscar · Mar 27, 2017

Milk, peroxide, baking soda, potassium silicate, bacillus aquafoilens

cyat · Mar 28, 2017

cravin morehead said:
cyat, just looked it up. Wow! that seems like some multipurpose good stuff. I looked at the liquid V. I think that may be what I might use for cleaning up the tent between runs now. I gotta check on price, as long as its not outrageous, I'll pick some up. thanks...

cm

* $30 for a concentrate to make only 1 quart on Amazon. Wow that's pricey stuff. I suppose if I was desperate for something I would try it. or desperatly battling pm... but I think I'll stick to bleaching my tent between runs. thanks though, that stuff sounds very good at what it does. maybe I'll check to find some bulk chlorine dioxide for my own mixing up.

It's 30-40$ for the pack that makes five gallons of concentrate , even kills sars

Eager2Grow · Mar 28, 2017

I have heard the milk thing but I am worried bacteria might get into the damaged leaves and make my problem worse. Is spraying potassium bicarbonate in flower inadvisable? Is H202 or baking soda a preferable solution?

Also I am not sure whether to remove damaged leaves or not. I have read arguments for and against PM being systemic, if it is systemic I wonder if removing the affected leaves will just make it move on to my healthier leaves quicker.

HqFarms · Mar 28, 2017

Once you get this problem solved I suggest working on your environment. Get some more air movement going on and possibly work on your day and night temps. Is there more than a ten degree split between night and day?

I wood · Mar 28, 2017

Eager2Grow said:
I have heard the milk thing but I am worried bacteria might get into the damaged leaves and make my problem worse. Is spraying potassium bicarbonate in flower inadvisable? Is H202 or baking soda a preferable solution?

Also I am not sure whether to remove damaged leaves or not. I have read arguments for and against PM being systemic, if it is systemic I wonder if removing the affected leaves will just make it move on to my healthier leaves quicker.

Pm is not systemic, but can appear that way due to spores being ever present in the environment.
Potassium bicarbonate will cause pistils to look mature prematurely.
H2o2 also affect the pistils but ina lesser way. I avoid both in flower but sometimes use a weak peroxide solution to spot treat small areas.
I have had pretty good results using agsil 16, aloe Vera, and full power sprayed about once a week to ten days. This doesn't affect the flowers in a negative way. After two weeks without a spray pm will start to pop up again.
I have never tried milk but did just try an Em1 spray for the first time recently. Em1 comtains the same active lacto type bacteria that make milk work.
Spraying every plant weekly is what works for me, pain inthe ass but does work.
Adding neem or karanja oil to the spray while in veg helps also but doesn't seem necessary as long as the weekly spray is done.
I made it over twenty five years pm free and was afraid to spray anything on flowering plants until moving into a new building. Spraying weekly is the only thing that has worked for me.
Oh yeah, and there are a bunch of chemicals that work well if you don't mind smoking that shit.
Good luck.

DocTim420 · Mar 28, 2017

Eager2Grow said:
I have heard the milk thing but I am worried bacteria might get into the damaged leaves and make my problem worse. Is spraying potassium bicarbonate in flower inadvisable? Is H202 or baking soda a preferable solution?

Also I am not sure whether to remove damaged leaves or not. I have read arguments for and against PM being systemic, if it is systemic I wonder if removing the affected leaves will just make it move on to my healthier leaves quicker.

IMO, it is the difference between "green" and "brown" buds (burnt hairs from potassium bicarbonate). The minute amounts of bacteria in 50% spray solution will not damage the leaves...even less when finishing off with a 10% milk solution. What is in raw milk? About 87% is water--

Some suggest the fungicide property is milk's lactose and enzymes (which are less than 5%)...very minute amounts.

BTW, I tried everything when I had a strain the was PM prone--and these are my experiences...no theory discussion here.

On Edit...for those that want to try the milk route, I would select "skim" or low-fat raw milk over the "regular" variety. IMO, the higher the fat content the greater amount of milk residue left behind. I doubt plant leafs are able to digest "milk fats" but can easily absorb the Non Fat stuff. Besides, the price for "skim milk" (about $6 1/2 gallon jug) is about half the price--compared to "regular" raw milk (greater fat content).

BTW, I grow many things in my outdoor garden, including lots of summer squash, pumpkins, carrots, etc--you know, veggies that are PM prone. Guess what my PM spray is? A simple cocktail that includes urea, skim raw milk, kelp concentrate, sea minerals and hydrolyzed fish. Why? Because it works and does not scare/harm beneficial insects, like...bees.

soundman · Mar 28, 2017

I will stick my neck out and say scrap the crop. Clean your room, fix your issues with ventilation and air movement.

I wouldn't smoke that shit. The point of growing your own is to get clean bud without pm and other molds other growers are putting out.

Take your lumps and move on.

DocTim420 · Mar 28, 2017

soundman said:
I will stick my neck out and say scrap the crop. Clean your room, fix your issues with ventilation and air movement.

I wouldn't smoke that shit. The point of growing your own is to get clean bud without pm and other molds other growers are putting out.

Take your lumps and move on.

He is only on day 24 in flower....imo, there is plenty of time to recover and get across the finish line with a "marketable" harvest AND still identify & fix his environment issues. Remember, PM spores are everywhere, they just don't exist in one place and not another. And yes, the right environmental conditions will encourage their rapid growth--just as certain strains are more PM prone than others.

king oscar · Mar 28, 2017

Like you said, he's at day 24. I agree with fixing the environment sterilizing and starting with new plants. The crop is going to be a huge pita and likely contaminated at the end

Eager2Grow · Mar 29, 2017

My temps don't generally vary too considerably. I don't have a heater or A/C in the room, but the temperatures here don't usually vacillate between extremes, and I have my lights off during the day time to try and offset the difference.

I have got a couple more fans to increase the airflow, so hopefully that helps.

Okay, I am going to try the milk. Does it have to be raw milk or is regular skim milk okay? DocTim420 are you suggesting I should mix 50% milk 50% water to start, then progressively reduce the amount of milk in the solution as the harvest matures?

I assume I should be spraying close to the start of lights on so that there is plenty of time for the plant to dry out? Spraying them during lights off seems like inviting bud rot to me.

Should I be removing affected leaves or is the spray enough to potentially salvage them?

Turfing this grow is really not an option, I am pretty much stuck with it. Afterwards I do intend to have a thorough clean up and start from scratch, but I am bearing with this one for the next 4-7 weeks to see what I can make of it.

DocTim420 · Mar 29, 2017

Raw milk works the best, imo--but others have obtained great results using homogenized milk.

Yep...50/50 to start off with for the 1st and 2nd spray, and if possible I would spray the plants in an area can be easily cleaned afterwards. The best results for me was to spray at the beginning of the light cycle not at the end, and wait until all the leaves are dry before hitting them with the lights.

Spray every other day and reduce the milk by a factor of 10 (50, 40, 30, 20...10) for each successive spray. You will see results by the 2nd day...but don't stop--continue the cycle. Once you see the PM arrested, then 10% spray 2x a week will suffice until harvest.

Regarding leaf removal, after a few treatments I would remove any crispy damaged leaves but I would hesitate in doing any mass defoliation. Also, the milk will make the funky buds look alive, vibrant--hence you might extend the harvest date a week or so...thus allowing the plant to recover a bit.

If your buds are still in the "dandelion" stage--then consider adding Serenade to the first few treatments, but if the buds are more advanced and show sugar--then hold off the Serenade.

If you do spray right before lights out--make sure all the leaves are dry before lights out.

Hang in there man!

Eager2Grow · Mar 29, 2017

I am not sure if my local supermarket sells raw milk but I will check it out tomorrow.

When you say spray the plants in an area that can easily be cleaned, I assume you mean take them out of the tent and place them somewhere I can wipe down any residual milk easily? My grow is in a garage and I can quite easily take the plants into an undercover area outside to spray them, so that isn't a problem.

My buds are still in the dandelion stage but I don't think we get Serenade in Australia. I might see if I can find something with the same active ingredient.

DocTim420 · Mar 29, 2017

Yeah...the overspray (milk + water) can create it's own rancid odor if not cleaned. I set up a little spray station in my garage--cheap shower curtain on the wall, towels on the floor and upside down bucket to raise the plant up a bit--making it easier to spray the underside. I use a Low Velocity Low Volume paint sprayer connected to my air compressor (real easy to get the job done)--but any spray device will work.

I think in south side of the world, you guys call it "non-homogenised milk".

https://www.ashgrovecheese.com.au/products/milk/

Yep...do try the symbiotic combo--Serenade + Milk if possible.

Treating PM/mold in flower

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