[Douglas.Curtis]

Originally Posted by Gimpy

Sure enough, it had pyrethroids and azadirachtin. He actually stuttered over the phone, "But I didn't know, because I didn't grow it. You know my buds are good," and I'm thinking well why the hell did you sell it to someone with a compromised immune system and seizures? It's been 48 hours since I smoked it and I'm still getting the tweaks. I got my refund though, that's what matters.

It's a damn good thing to know about pesticides. They are kind of like demons: invisible, but make you sick and fill your head with confusion and depressing thoughts. Even my cats were like wtf?

*facepalm* I mean really, what can be said here. Wow?

@paddyod11 Greatly appreciate the information. I'm high functioning autistic and have made great inroads with anxiety control. Mainly recognizing and letting it go. I've been employing the same skills to this, ever since I figured it out. Since part of the issue is muscle tension, realizing and letting go of the anxiety helps immensely. Things were significantly worse when the fear of the unknown was mixed with the anxiety.

[Bjorn to farm.]

Heavy user of my own, mostly clean, weed.
No problems.

[Bjorn to farm.]

Never used anything for PM or Neem.

[Gimpy]

Originally Posted by paddyod11

Some potentially useful information for everyone in this thread: benzodiazepines help. When I take klonopin and smoke, the effects on my stomach are greatly diminished. I don't think the issue is entirely psychosomatic because I still get a small level of discomfort. I think that benzos stop you from worrying about the affects of the unclean weed, so all you are left with is the minor symptoms you suffer from it. I have some Original Glue sitting under a lamp right now. I took some klonopin a little while ago. I'm not sure how long it takes for light to break down the aza, but I'm going to take a hit of it and report back on how I feel. The main takeaway from this post is that the unpleasant effects of smoking pesticides can be greatly exacerbated by anxiety. I think I'll try vaping some and see if it makes a difference.

Ironically I also take clonazepam (low dose - 0.25mg), but it doesn't really help with any of the symptoms besides paranoia. I just started prednisone and a round of antibiotics for messing up my nose as a teenager, and now I can puff aza bud without problems as long as it's dry. The meds seriously help the headaches, eye problems, and tinnitus. If anyone has used drugs intranasally and have problems smoking pot, I recommend an ENT (eye, nose, and throat doctor). Still, neem is anything but safe for consumption.

My grower showed me his shelf of what he uses. 1) That bottle of neem, Monterey Garden Insect spray, 2) Azamax (he says it's really powerful so doesn't use it that much), and 3) some sort of leaf polish that he said was really expensive. Not sure what he uses for soil though.

The stuff I was posting about last time was apparently from someone else using Agri-med/Avid (abamectin), so my mistake saying it was pyrethroids.

[HuffnPufferfish]

hot baths make anyone feel better....

[Douglas.Curtis]

Thank you H.Pylori! LOL I'm telling you now, if I hadn't had the HelicoBacter.Pylori infection, I never would have figured out my issues were coming from the Aza. I can definitely still feel the effects of the aza, with the infection gone, they're just greatly reduced. I can fully understand why folks believe there isn't an issue with it.

Truly disturbing.

So there are still two people declaring they have CHS and zero aza/neem connection. Where are the rest?

[Gimpy]

After my round of prednisone and antibiotics, symptoms returned with full force. I'm a little tired today so forgive me if the following doesn't make sense.

First, I wanted to see if any of your guys' symptoms match something called "Multiple Chemical Sensitivity," as it is a perfect reflection of symptoms I get around azadirachtin. Apparently, there is a cycle called "NO/ONOO" (Dr. Martin Pall's theory) that people can get caught into with repeated exposure to chemicals that they can't tolerate.

It's a new illness. Here are some brief quotes from wikipedia:

"Multiple chemical sensitivity (MCS), also known as idiopathic environmental intolerances (IEI), is a disputed chronic condition characterized by symptoms that the affected person attributes to low-level exposures to commonly used chemicals. Symptoms are typically vague and non-specific. They may include fatigue, headaches, nausea, dizziness, and inflammation of skin, joints, gastrointestinal tract, and airways. Commonly attributed substances include scented products, pesticides, plastics, synthetic fabrics, smoke, petroleum products, and paint fumes.

Symptoms range in severity from mild to disabling. Symptoms are common, but vague and non-specific for the condition. The most common are feeling tired, "brain fog" (short-term memory problems, difficulty concentrating), gastrointestinal problems, headaches, and muscle pain.

A partial list of other symptoms patients have attributed to MCS include: difficulty breathing, pains in the throat, chest, or abdominal region, skin irritation, headaches, neurological symptoms (nerve pain, pins and needles feelings, weakness, trembling, restless leg syndrome), tendonitis, seizures, visual disturbances (blurring, halo effect, inability to focus), anxiety, panic and/or anger, sleep disturbance, suppression of immune system, digestive difficulties, nausea, indigestion/heartburn, vomiting, diarrhea, joint pains, vertigo/dizziness, abnormally acute sense of smell (hyperosmia), sensitivity to natural plant fragrance or natural pine terpenes, dry mouth, dry eyes, and an overactive bladder.

Several mechanisms for a psychological etiology have been proposed, including theories based on misdiagnoses of an underlying mental illness, stress, or classical conditioning. Many people with MCS meet the criteria for major depressive disorder or anxiety disorder. Other proposed explanations include somatoform disorder, panic disorder, migraine, chronic fatigue syndrome, or fibromyalgia, where symptoms such as brain fog and headaches can be triggered by chemicals or inhalants. Through behavioral conditioning, they may develop real, but unintentionally psychologically produced, symptoms such as anticipatory nausea when they encounter certain odors or other perceived triggers. Affected individuals may also have a tendency to "catastrophically misinterpret benign physical symptoms" or simply have a disturbingly acute sense of smell. The personality trait absorption, in which individuals are predisposed to becoming deeply immersed in sensory experiences, may be stronger in individuals reporting symptoms of MCS. Behaviors exhibited by MCS sufferers may reflect broader sociological fears about industrial pollution and broader societal trends of technophobia and chemophobia.

MCS is a diagnosis of exclusion, and the first step in diagnosing a potential MCS sufferer is to identify and treat all other conditions which are present and which often explain the reported symptoms. For example, depression, allergy, thyroid disorders, orthostatic syndromes, lupus, hypercalcemia, and anxiety need to be carefully evaluated and, if present, properly treated. The "gold standard" procedure for identifying a person who has MCS is to test response to the random introduction of chemicals the patient has self-identified as relevant. This may be done in a carefully designed challenge booth to eliminate the possibility of contaminants in the room. Chemicals and controls, sometimes called prompts, are introduced in a random method, usually scent-masked. The test subject does not know when a prompt is being given. Objective and subjective responses are measured. Objective measures, such as the galvanic skin response indicate psychological arousal, such as fear, anxiety, or anger. Subjective responses include patient self-reports. A diagnosis of MCS can only be justified when the subject cannot consciously distinguish between chemicals and controls, and when responses are consistently present with exposure to chemicals and consistently absent when prompted by a control.

A 1999 consensus statement recommends that MCS be diagnosed according to six standardized criteria:

1. Symptoms are reproducible with repeated (chemical) exposures

2. The condition has persisted for a significant period of time

3. Low levels of exposure (lower than previously or commonly tolerated) result in manifestations of the syndrome (i.e. increased sensitivity)

4. The symptoms improve or resolve completely when the triggering chemicals are removed

5. Responses often occur to multiple chemically unrelated substances

6. Symptoms involve multiple-organ symptoms (runny nose, itchy eyes, headache, scratchy throat, ear ache, scalp pain, mental confusion or sleepiness, palpitations of the heart, upset stomach, nausea and/or diarrhea, abdominal cramping, aching joints)."

All credit to the Multiple Chemical Sensitivity wiki page. Right now I'm doing research on dopamine antagonists and how they can prevent aza-induced vomiting. One study said something about haloperidol, an antipsychotic, being a novel treatment for CHS.

I started taking a weak dopamine antagonist called Buspar (buspirone), which I found in my dresser from a long time ago. It has reduced all of my aza symptoms to nothing. Hopefully it continues to work.

Let me know what you guys think!

[Douglas.Curtis]

A lot of chemicals irritate me, due to smell and/or throath/nose/mouth irritation, aza is the only one I have major issues with. I wonder if that would qualify me anyway? No idea. Interesting information though and some of these new solutions make me wish my system worked well with Rx... Seriously glad you're finding complete relief. While it's working, welcome back to the world! Have you made any progress on securing a cleaner source anytime soon?SaveSave

[Gimpy]

Originally Posted by Douglas.Curtis

A lot of chemicals irritate me, due to smell and/or throath/nose/mouth irritation, aza is the only one I have major issues with. I wonder if that would qualify me anyway? No idea. Interesting information though and some of these new solutions make me wish my system worked well with Rx... Seriously glad you're finding complete relief. While it's working, welcome back to the world! Have you made any progress on securing a cleaner source anytime soon?SaveSave

Thanks for the welcome. Hopefully the med continues to suppress the symptoms, but I know that in my gut I'm probably developing H. Pylori or something similar to it because of the Azadirachtin in my weed.

When I enter my bedroom where I keep my stash, gear, etc. I can sense an aura that immediately makes me nauteous, but not to the point of vomiting--just a very acidic stomach with lots of growling. When I sleep in there I wake up with nausea, extreme bloating, lower back numbness and stomach cramps, so I've been sleeping on the couch.

When I allow my cats to enter my room, which I don't anymore, their eyes start to look different and they become immobilized. Even when I take them back out of the room they just lay wherever I put them for half an hour. So, I think aza could be harmful to many pets.

A solution to getting clean weed: that is mandatory and thanks for reminding me. I'm going to call different dispensaries and see if I can find anyone that doesn't use aza or any other pesticides.

[Douglas.Curtis]

I remember reading about cannabis allowing bacteria to enter deeper into the lining of the digestive system. I'm under the impression the aza is possibly increasing this effect for H.Pylori or something?

I could digest a bowling ball, before I was first poisoned with Azadirachtin 10+ years ago.