[Douglas.Curtis]

Originally Posted by HqFarms

I only have one question for you all with symptoms. Have your symptoms worsened or became more apparent since reading this thread? The mind is something we barely understand and I personally think most, not all you, are experiencing the placebo affect.

I'd laugh, but the subject is far from funny.

Thank you, no. This, and many other threads, have been started to track down the source of years of previous issues. Thanks. Re-Read it, and other threads, and see how many people are thankful to run across information describing their horrible experiences.

[Douglas.Curtis]

Originally Posted by Gimpy

I'll try to get some results the next time I see my doctor. The symptoms of H. Pylori are very similar to what I experienced while smoking plus taking a medication called duloxetine (or Cymbalta). I didn't realize how messed up I was from azadirachtin until I stopped taking it, because it almost numbs your nerves completely, including your organs. However, and maybe TMI, but every morning I would get the most painful stools, which were black as tar. It was honestly so painful...

So here is a recap of my symptoms, without nerve medication:

-Bloating, even when merely handling aza bud.

-Very uncomfortable sensation behind eyes.

-Mental anguish, depression, and intrusive thoughts. Extreme difficulty thinking is common too.

-Brutal cluster headache that strikes my right temple at night.

-Stiff neck and back

-Ears ringing

-Duodenum, spleen, and gallbladder inflammation/pain

Sounds exactly like azadirachtin and H.Pylori combined. I literally ended up using MiraLax for 8 months straight, a section of my guts just seemed to not work right. F'ing rude. I edited out the symptoms I believe are related to extreme toxicity. The remaining symptoms are what I recognize immediately.

As I said, since the treatment to get rid of the H.Pylori, my guts have gone back to processing everything normally. Same, same as I was used to years ago.

I still have to test contact with aza again. I have some Azatrol/Azamax here, wondering what the best way to test it would be, besides the double-blind I'm setting up.

[HqFarms]

Originally Posted by Douglas.Curtis

I'd laugh, but the subject is far from funny.

Thank you, no. This, and many other threads, have been started to track down the source of years of previous issues. Thanks. Re-Read it, and other threads, and see how many people are thankful to run across information describing their horrible experiences.

With a comment like makes me think you are only looking for instances that proves your hypothesis. Anything that goes against it you push away quickly. If you want a better way to test your hypothesis you need multiple growers with multiple cuts with flowers that are told are contaminated but actually aren't and vice versa, unlabeled samples, samples that you actually do know the truth about contamination. One strain won't work either. You can't forget about other factors that might contribute to your hypothesis like food intake, time of day of sesh, stress you might face inn any given day. IMO there is no way to get a good enough control to prove anything. The only thing that really matters is if what you believe really works for you but don't throw out any ideas that are different from yours. I don't disagree with you brotha nor think your hypothesis is wrong, just offering a outside opinion

[Douglas.Curtis]

Originally Posted by HqFarms

With a comment like makes me think you are only looking for instances that proves your hypothesis. Anything that goes against it you push away quickly. If you want a better way to test your hypothesis you need multiple growers with multiple cuts with flowers that are told are contaminated but actually aren't and vice versa, unlabeled samples, samples that you actually do know the truth about contamination. One strain won't work either. You can't forget about other factors that might contribute to your hypothesis like food intake, time of day of sesh, stress you might face inn any given day. IMO there is no way to get a good enough control to prove anything. The only thing that really matters is if what you believe really works for you but don't throw out any ideas that are different from yours. I don't disagree with you brotha nor think your hypothesis is wrong, just offering a outside opinion

I'm aware of what you're saying. Yes, it would be awesome to see this happen. I've a scientific mind and did my own testing (have you read this thread, or others I've started myself?), there's zero doubt in my mind the majority of CHS is aza related. The H.Pylori connection is a new discovery, which is a welcome clarification.

If anything?
Knowing what the hell is wrong has lowered anxiety towards the subject, reducing overall tension and the resulting pain. So, you can say knowing brought significant relief, just from removing the tension of the unknown.

Set up the tests, you'll get the same results I did. Cannabis is not a fruit or a vegetable and all the "neem is safe" studies are incorrect when it comes to cannabis, by the very nature of their design and what they tested.

In a few months I'll have a double-blind study of tainted vs. non-tainted dabs. Until then, everything I have contact with is a guess regarding aza content.

[Douglas.Curtis]

Jared, Customer Service at FoxFarm, says they don't use neem products in their soils. No seed meal or other treatments. Just an FYI.

[Gimpy]

Maybe tons of stoners have cannabinoid hyperemesis symptoms from aza but they manifest themselves when going to the bathroom (stools), instead of violently vomiting..

This is not the placebo effect either, to whoever mentioned it was likely. I know at least eight cannabis users that are very aware of azadirachtin's ability to make you sick as hell.

[Gimpy]

FoxFarms could be adding paclobutrazol or other PGRs as well--it only takes 1 ppm to completely f*** up the plant. My new provider has one strain that clearly contains them (big buds, no smell, bad high, and sharp chest/ upper back pains) and some Grandaddy Purp that contains Aza. Fml.

The only question is what's in the 98.8% other ingredients besides azadirachtin in Azamax and Azatrol. Here are the labels if they help. The Azatrol label clearly states that it is harmful via dermal contact and inhalation, so why in the world is it legal to use on cannabis?

https://www.planetnatural.com/wp-con...amax-label.pdf

https://www.planetnatural.com/wp-con...trol-label.pdf

[Douglas.Curtis]

Originally Posted by Gimpy

FoxFarms could be adding paclobutrazol or other PGRs as well--it only takes 1 ppm to completely f*** up the plant. My new provider has one strain that clearly contains them (big buds, no smell, bad high, and sharp chest/ upper back pains) and some Grandaddy Purp that contains Aza. Fml.

The only question is what's in the 98.8% other ingredients besides azadirachtin in Azamax and Azatrol. Here are the labels if they help. The Azatrol label clearly states that it is harmful via dermal contact and inhalation, so why in the world is it legal to use on cannabis?

https://www.planetnatural.com/wp-con...amax-label.pdf

https://www.planetnatural.com/wp-con...trol-label.pdf

Good points!

I too was looking at the "other ingredients" at first. Now I've run into sufferers who only used excess neem seed meal. It's definitely the azadirachtin.

When they re-run all the field tests on safety, when it comes to chemicals and cannabis, they're going to find cannabis holds onto things significantly longer than they expect.

I see some a lot of products picking up cannabis specific labeling, when all this is main stream and federally integrated.

[Gimpy]

Can you tell me more about your spine? You said something about your chiropractor. I recently smoked and it kind of hurt my neck, like my head couldn't turn to the right side without being strained. When I ran my fingers down my neck I felt a "bubble" (for lack of a better word) that moves around, but when my high faded it went away.

Some info about my provider: he's been using the same plants for a long ass time. 14th generation or something like that.. But I recently found out he only has two patients so I wonder if something's fishy.

[Gimpy]

By the way, I'm a 23 year old male living in Montana. That might be relevant info. I'm not that active and don't know why my back would be this big of an issue.