[Only Ornamental]

Err....Earthy, this is the doubled haploid thread, not the mutation breeding one .
I wouldn't try arsenic, bismuth, or any other toxic heavy metal for that purpose anyway. I wouldn't even want to consume an extract of plants treated in such a way cause extraction ain't a good enough protection .

Oryzalin might indeed come in handy when making DH.

[Illuminate]

Try strontium and ceasium...why waste it.

[Only Ornamental]

Seriously, dude? Why can't we stay on topic? Too boring?

[Stan G.]

I was totally absorbed in this thread! What a great topic. I find it very interesting Sam hasn't threw his two cents in, seems right up his alley. Are chemicals like Colchicine the only way to induce dub hap?

[rykus]

I remember a lot of talk of using colchicine for getting mutations in the early 90's when I first was growing... I also remember some speculation a few varieties that did not breed true where suspected of being worked with such and as a result not breeding well because the other sets of genes have nothing to attatch too...

I don't understand it well enough myself but are you not doubling the potential genes to be able to isolate and stabalise desirable traits?

Is this the same tech that brought strawberries from 2 to 8 possible gene combos or something like that? Vague memories...

Cool discussion! I feel stoned for the first time all week,lol

[Only Ornamental]

Originally Posted by Stan G.

...Are chemicals like Colchicine the only way to induce dub hap?

Not exactly... For induction of haploid plants one does things like growing anthers in a Petri dish and treat them with heat, cold, or other stresses and not only chemicals (if ever). There are huge differences regarding the needed stimuli not only between species but also between varieties and cultivars. In the next step, the doubling of the chromosomes, colchicine and other spindle toxins such as oryzalin are often a must. It's not about doubling single genes or inducing mutations, but simply the chromosome doubling naturally happening after pollen and egg (both are haploid BTW) fuse.

[Iachdo]

Is this the same as protoplast fusion or different? I have just started learning about these thing and am very interested in continuing my studies but pardon me if I am being ingnorant.

[Only Ornamental]

No, it's not . Doubled haploids means dividing the diploid chromosome set in half and then copying it to get back to a diploid state wherein the cell is now 100% "inbred". Protoplasts are plant cells without cell wall (i.e. similar to animal cells which only have a cell membrane) and fusing two such cells together by using some sort of stress. This results in a new cell now containing twice as many chromosomes (e.g. tetraploid). This works fairly well with plant cells and is used to "cross" two completely different species.

[Iachdo]

Word. You could cross species but then in the same regard you could just cross two different strains without having to herm a plant. What I’m not sure about is would that new plant still be just as unstable as the herm plant. There are studies supporting crop improvements in tomato’s and potato’s by using this method. The main reason cannabis is so fascinating is the wide variety of different horticultural techniques that only work on a certain species of plant but can also be applied to cannabis. I’m planning on having some fun this year...

[Yard dog]

Originally Posted by Only Ornamental

Not exactly... For induction of haploid plants one does things like growing anthers in a Petri dish and treat them with heat, cold, or other stresses and not only chemicals (if ever). There are huge differences regarding the needed stimuli not only between species but also between varieties and cultivars. In the next step, the doubling of the chromosomes, colchicine and other spindle toxins such as oryzalin are often a must. It's not about doubling single genes or inducing mutations, but simply the chromosome doubling naturally happening after pollen and egg (both are haploid BTW) fuse.

Whilst colchicine will work you can use the likes of nitrous oxide, acenaphthene, 8-Hydroxyquinoline, p-fluorophenylalanine, Chloramphenicol (ie eye drops) to name a few sources...
Even if one is to look at just mutation breeding though I'm not sure there's any benefit to cannabis doing so, you could vastly speed up the process with DH's as you can fix the mutation in the 1st gen after the treatment.. (the mutant bit is more aimed at Rox/Mate dave )