[idiit]

Thats why NLD and WLD are better descriptors

^^ i don't see any problems with this.

i've seen what hemp (the real stuff in the midwest) can do to a grower. you are outa biz. the public can be brutal if they are enraged and nothing enrages the public like being sold hemp sativa instead of drug cultivator sativas they anticipated smoking.

[oldchuck]

@idiit, you may be interested to know that "sativa" in the lingo of taxonomy means "cultivated" and is appended to the scientific names of several species.

There remains considerable taxonomic debate on the question of Cannabis. Is it one species or several? Professional opinions differ. I am of the opinion that Cannabis Sativa L. is one species which, since cultivation began thousands of years ago, has adapted to many, many different environments and bred for many different uses. All Cannabis varieties can interbreed.

[idiit]

^ thanks. my point is that strictly scientifically speaking "all sativas are hemp" is very likely a true statement". however, we will quickly descend into lala wtf land if we can't easily distinguish out the native rope weed that is the scourge to all cannabis smokers ,growers, users; hemp (as i know the term).

the midwest hemp pollen (if grown on a wide scale level) will get into your od strain genetics and even your fall indoor strain genetics via pollen drift. it will turn any good smoke strain into rope weed genetics in a very few generations.

i really do believe in hemp. i like hemp based alternative fuels, clothes, paper, hemp-crete, etc. i like it a lot. i am a true believer in hemp.

we are talking about referring to all sativas as hemp and therein lies the problem. not too many ppl would terribly mind a little true papua new guinea gold pollen into their c-99 seed stock. might be a hoot.

widely grown midwestern rope hemp will cause tremendous damage to many an elite seed strain via random pollination. it will ruin many a grower's livelihood.

calling all sativas hemp is akin to calling all ground cover weeds kudzu.

we can discuss how the academic scientist terms mean this and that. look at the confusion it will cause. look at the damage it will do if the general gardener can't easily distinguish via the terms employed one hemp from another.

back in the '70's no one called grail sativas hemp. now we are supposed to go along with it 'cause the academics tell us so. i gots a real problem here wid this one.

the government has redefined unemployment, inflation, the constitution, healthy diet, fit levels of flouride, chemtrails, radioactivity etc. in our water, food and air. they are calling debt money now. money used to be gold/silver. now it's our debt created out of thin air and we pay a tax for the privledge of being forced to use it as currency. now all grail landrace sativas are to be called hemp. oh really?

[oldchuck]

Unwanted cross pollination is a problem for lots of crops. Corn for example. Breeders and growers know about these things and take precautions to deal with it.

Regarding Cannabis, productive, eclectic cross breeding opportunities await. I think there is a lot of potential in that wild weed you got out there. Look at Ruderalis, scrawny, low potency, rugged, far northern plants crossed with Skunk #1 or whatever and voila: you get high priced auto-flower dope seed. Lotta smart breeders out there. Save some of those ditch weed seeds for me, bro.

[Only Ornamental]

Originally Posted by oldchuck

There remains considerable taxonomic debate on the question of Cannabis. Is it one species or several? Professional opinions differ. I am of the opinion that Cannabis Sativa L. is one species which, since cultivation began thousands of years ago, has adapted to many, many different environments and bred for many different uses. All Cannabis varieties can interbreed.

Maybe, maybe not... could even be that what we have today is a hybrid of extinct species... LoL

Interbreeding is not a criteria; nearly all cacti and orchids can be interbred (obviously not the cacti with the orchids ). On the other hand, no interbreeding speaks for separate species.

I'm not even sure whether your ditch weed is really native and wasn't just imported in the 18th/19th century (?). At least European and Chinese varieties had a very strong influence on the original US hemp varieties and likely the European ones took over after the official farming stopped.

[Thule]

Originally Posted by idiit

^ thanks. my point is that strictly scientifically speaking "all sativas are hemp" is very likely a true statement". however, we will quickly descend into lala wtf land if we can't easily distinguish out the native rope weed that is the scourge to all cannabis smokers ,growers, users; hemp (as i know the term).

the midwest hemp pollen (if grown on a wide scale level) will get into your od strain genetics and even your fall indoor strain genetics via pollen drift. it will turn any good smoke strain into rope weed genetics in a very few generations.

i really do believe in hemp. i like hemp based alternative fuels, clothes, paper, hemp-crete, etc. i like it a lot. i am a true believer in hemp.

we are talking about referring to all sativas as hemp and therein lies the problem. not too many ppl would terribly mind a little true papua new guinea gold pollen into their c-99 seed stock. might be a hoot.

widely grown midwestern rope hemp will cause tremendous damage to many an elite seed strain via random pollination. it will ruin many a grower's livelihood.

calling all sativas hemp is akin to calling all ground cover weeds kudzu.

we can discuss how the academic scientist terms mean this and that. look at the confusion it will cause. look at the damage it will do if the general gardener can't easily distinguish via the terms employed one hemp from another.

back in the '70's no one called grail sativas hemp. now we are supposed to go along with it 'cause the academics tell us so. i gots a real problem here wid this one.

the government has redefined unemployment, inflation, the constitution, healthy diet, fit levels of flouride, chemtrails, radioactivity etc. in our water, food and air. they are calling debt money now. money used to be gold/silver. now it's our debt created out of thin air and we pay a tax for the privledge of being forced to use it as currency. now all grail landrace sativas are to be called hemp. oh really?

Ah, I think I see where you're coming from. Could it be that you just misunderstood what Sam said?

What he meant is that everything we now call sativas (haze, thai, zamal) should instead be called narrow leaf dominant indicas or NLD indicas, whereas what we now know as hemp should be called sativas instead.

So if we were to follow the latest scientific classification we should forget the term sativa when talking about dope, and refer to them as NLD indicas. Revival of the ultimate NLD indica thread..

I don't remember who it was that came up with the whole sativa/indica thing for us dope smokers, but it was popularized by the Dutch seed industry and has very little to do with the actual genetics. In fact I don't think it ever gained any value in the scientific community where cannabis sativa has always referred to common hemp, and the psychoactive species was early on called cannabis indica.

[idiit]

^^ thanks thule!

helps quite a bit.

I don't remember who it was that came up with the whole sativa/indica thing for us dope smokers, but it was popularized by the Dutch seed industry and has very little to do with the actual genetics. In fact I don't think it ever gained any value in the scientific community where cannabis sativa has always referred to common hemp, and the psychoactive species was early on called cannabis indica.

in the very early '70's pretty much all anyone had to grow was sativas. then the indicas started appearing in my area at the time. hemp meant rope weed. this was the street language (indicas, sativas, hemp), much like the street uses the term humidity for what the weather guy calls dew point.

the whole "sativa is hemp" gig does have a foundation of truth behind it. i've never denied that. i feel the terminology is going to cause some mass confusion. the street might not take to nld and wld. it'll be interesting to watch as it plays out.

[Thule]

Originally Posted by idiit

^^ thanks thule!

helps quite a bit.



in the very early '70's pretty much all anyone had to grow was sativas. then the indicas started appearing in my area at the time. hemp meant rope weed. this was the street language (indicas, sativas, hemp), much like the street uses the term humidity for what the weather guy calls dew point.

the whole "sativa is hemp" gig does have a foundation of truth behind it. i've never denied that. i feel the terminology is going to cause some mass confusion. the street might not take to nld and wld. it'll be interesting to watch as it plays out.

It is indeed hard to imagine street lingo adopting Hilligs terminology For me the most natural way to describe different cultivars is the way they're being used. Ganjaplant or hashplant. Works for me because I only do landraces.

[G.O. Joe]

Cannabis has been bred outdoors for a long time no problem. Bags are kind of conspicuous, so it's probably better to breed indoors now. Maybe it's a problem for large growers not filtering their intake that should already be filtered for other reasons, but IME typical cheapo air filters on the AC is all you need for no seed in Ditchweed City, reliably for 30 years.

The pollen makes non-greenhouse outdoor growing of salable buds impossible, but it's only one of a host of other local problems. It would still be better to grow inside even if ditchweed didn't come up anywhere next year.

One thing I do know is where a dozen ditchweed seedlings are growing. Heads up if you do or don't want fast males of unknown value and are thinking ditchseed - totally random Ditchweed City Rail males autoflower immediately at the move to 18 hrs HPS. That wasn't part of the plan. Their mothers and grandparents lived in especially harsh but not real far north local and site conditions for at least 30 generations. idiit's strain ruining dead end panic is to be tested on NL5xHaze x Sour Bubble, which are less than a foot tall and not ready for wild hardcore action now.

In case you were wondering, the mean of 1,371 seized mostly state eradication ditchweed samples from '93-08 tested at Ole Miss is 0.4% THC - max sample 2.4% - and 1.8% CBD. Those figures were thereabouts each year, the 53 '06 samples gave CBD its highest mean, 2.4%.

[Only Ornamental]

I'd like to share a little story which, nearly 20 years ago, I've been told by some grandpa I knew.
Now, when he was a boy himself he used to spend his holidays with his grand parents who were Swiss farmers and, as many Swiss farmers back then, also had some multi-purpose hemp around.
Each Sunday, his grandad told his grandma they'd go 'where the bells ring'. Obviously, she always thought they went to attend mass. Instead, the two of 'em sat behind the church where his grandpa took out his pipe and smoked some weed .

Why tell you this?
I don't know if it was his own hemp he smoked but that's the most probable possibility. Judging by the Swiss farmers mentality, they were unlikely importing Mexi bricks or Thai sticks but very proud of their own crop.
That means, Swiss hemp around WWII seemed to contain 'useful' amounts of THC. The fact that he smoked buds and not hash also indicates a pure THC chemotype. We also know that Swiss strains all got banned recently due their regularly too high THC content. I believe to remember it was commonly around 5%...

The question would now be: Was Swiss hemp a drug type sativa or had it influences of NLD indicas?

@idiit: AFAIK dew point correlates with absolute humidity (though is not the same). Even if it influences relative humidity, it is something different. Humidity in the street language, at least in Europe, means relative humidity and that's the term all meteorologists use.