[DocTim420]

A good friend of mine (who has an extremely liberal point of view) sent me a link to website of a Chicago organization with this purpose:

The People’s Response Team is a multi-racial, intergenerational group committed to supporting efforts to end police violence in Chicago....
https://www.peoplesresponseteamchicago.org/

In their resource section was a link to an article titled, "Ten (10) Ways Police Can Legally Lie to You", which I thought might be useful for some to read. (Bold emphasis on #9 is mine...truer words have never been written).

IMO, our society is NOT based on total equality as in "one law for everyone", rather our Government is exempt of many laws--and is permitted and encouraged to LIE to its citizenry. But not the other way around--since citizens that LIE to the Government will find themselves in legal jeopardy. Let's just say, I avoided several "nasty" situations by being quite (silent) and...the few occasions where my mouth could not help itself, I answered their question with a question (Q: "What are you doing here?" A: "Am I being detained or am I free to go?")

So what to do when talking to ANY Government official? Silence is golden and here's the "cut and paste" from the San Diego defense attorney's website. https://www.njmoorelaw.com/10-ways-police-can-lie-to-you

Can Police lie to you?
Yes, they can. Here is how you can spot police deception.

As a general proposition, courts permit the police to lie. The lies told by the police to a suspect under questioning do not render the confession involuntary per se. Mere trickery alone does not invalidate a confession. The court must look to see whether the deception is reasonably likely to produce a false confession. People v. Farnam (2002) 28 Cal.4th 107; Hawkins v. Lynaugh (5th Cir. 1988) 844 F.2d 1132
​
(1) Police Can Lie About Having Physical Evidence

"We have your fingerprints."
"We have your DNA."

Fingerprint and DNA analysis requires time, and county crime labs are notoriously backlogged. If you have been arrested as a suspect for a crime that was recently committed, it is highly unlikely that police have fingerprints from the scene of the crime, at the time of interrogation.

Consider the following true story:
The defendant voluntarily came to the police station and was told he was not under arrest. The officer told the defendant that his fingerprints were found at the scene, a lie. The defendant then confessed to taking the property. Oregon v. Mathiason (1977) 429 U.S. 492

The 6th Federal District Court described the practice of police lying about having DNA, "a regrettable but frequent practice of law enforcement was not unconstitutional," citing to People v. Jones (1998) 17 Cal.4th 279, 299 - which allow police deception as long as it is not unlikely to produce an untruthful confession.

(2) Police can trick you into giving up your DNA

"Would you like something to drink?"

If you are arrested for a serious felony (read: violent crime), a DNA swab is now part of the normal booking routine. However, the police may also try and trick you into surrendering your DNA by offering you a soda, cup of water or coffee. A positive DNA match to an active crime scene is usually sufficient for an arrest and a charge. Police are even allowed to go through your garbage to obtain your DNA and other evidence. However, it should be noted that these DNA tests still take time, and are usually performed off-site. Maryland v. King (2013) 133 S.Ct. 1958; California v. Greenwood (1988) 486 U.S. 35

(3) Police can give fake tests to "prove you're guilty"

"You failed the polygraph."
"You failed a chemical test."

Consider the following true story:
A suspect requested a polygraph test, and the police hooked the suspect up to a fake machine. During the questioning, the suspect denied any involvement in the crime, then the police show the defendant a fake graph from the fake machine, and tell the suspect that they know he is lying. The suspect thereafter admits being present at the scene of the crime - The court ruled the defendant's admission is a voluntary and admissible confession. People v. Mays (2009) 173 Cal App. 4th 1145.

Another true story:
"In the first step of the "test," the detectives sprayed defendant's hands with soap and patted them with a paper towel. In the second step, they used a field test kit used for testing substances suspected of being cocaine, which the detectives knew inevitably would turn color. The detective told defendant that the test had provided proof that defendant had recently fired a gun." People v. Smith (2007) 40 Cal.4th 483; People v. Parrison (1992) 137 Cal.App.3d 529, 537
​
(4) Police may lie about having eyewitnesses

"An eyewitness identified you leaving the scene."

True Story:
A defendant was brought to a police station and advised of his Miranda rights. Defendant waived his rights, gave a statement, and then asked for an attorney. As the detectives picked up their books to leave the room a detective tells the defendant that the victim identified a picture of the Defendant as the one who stabbed and raped her. At the time, the victim had not seen any photographs. The defendant subsequently confessed. People v. Dominick (1986) 182 Cal. Ap. 3d 1174.
​
(5) Police can lie about recording your conversation

"I'm turning the recorder off, this is just between you and me."
"This is off the record."

There is nothing requiring a police officer to disclose the presence of an already-activated tape recorder. In fact, there may be more than one recording device in the room, and the police may turn one of those devices off and say, "this is just between us," or "this is off the record." Remember that when speaking with the police, there is no "off the record." People v. Sims (1993) 5 Cal. 4th 405.
​
(6) Police can lie about having an accomplice's confession
​
"Your friend sold you out and told us everything"

The police are permitted to lie and tell you that your accomplice confessed. Often this is used to extract minor details, such as your location at certain times - little things that are used to build a case. Police will say, "just tell us where you met your friend," or "how long were you hanging out?" - While these questions seem innocent, your answers are confessions to those facts.

True Story:
Detectives could place both Frazier and his cousin at a bar where a victim was last seen alive. Both Frazier and the cousin were arrested. Police lied to Frazier during the interview that his cousin confessed and told them everything. Frazier only made statements that he and his cousin were at the bar. Those statements were used to convict him. Frazier v. Cupp (1969) 394 U.S. 731.
​
(7) The police will try to imply that your refusal to cooperate will be damaging to your case.
​
"We know what happened, but if you obstruct our investigation the DA will be a lot tougher on you."

The above statement is not a lie- you can be criminally charged for obstructing an investigation (i.e. lying to the police). But the way it is phrased is often interpreted as "you have to talk to us." Refusing to answer questions is not obstruction of justice. Your best defense is always to remain silent and wait for a lawyer. You will not talk yourself out of a jail cell.

What most people don't realize is that the police do not charge you with a crime - only the district attorney can make that decision. The police are just supposed to hold you and get as much information as they can to convict you. That's it... That's their job. It is the DA's job to evaluate the evidence and decide whether to even issue a case. Often, a DA does not know anything about the case until the date of arraignment where they first pick up the file and read a police report. Most DA's don't even get that far, and simply read an interns notes on the file. When a DA reads the file for the first time one of the key pieces of evidence they are looking for is if you made any statements (that is the one thing that makes their job the easiest). United States v. Santos-Garcia (8th Cir.2002) 313 F.3d 1073, 1079 (noting that raised voices and suggestions on how to gain leniency do not render a confession involuntary).
​
(8) Police can lie about what will happen to other people.

"Your friend will spend their life in jail if you don't tell us what happened."

The police can lie to you and say that your friend will go to jail for the rest of their life. HOWEVER, they cannot threaten a family member with harm or removal from the home. While the court permits a number of coercive tactics, threatening your family is considered the type of threat that is likely to produce a false confession. “A threat by police to arrest or punish a close relative, or a promise to free the relative in exchange for a confession, may render an admission invalid.” People v. Steger (1976) 16 Cal.3d 539, 550.

(9) They will lie about wanting to help you out.

"We know what happened, best thing for you is to tell us how write it up in your favor and we will help you out."

"We have enough evidence to charge you - this is your only opportunity to tell your story."

Police do not "charge" you with a crime. The hardest cases to prosecute are the ones where the Defendant has said NOTHING. The less you say to the Police, the better off you are at avoiding a charge. Talking to police only makes it more likely that charges will be filed.

​True Story:
Defendant and his accomplice were wanted for a murder. Officers already had a full confession from defendant's accomplice, who stated the defendant was the killer. Police lied and told the Defendant they have enough evidence to charge him with murder. The defendant told the police his friend actually did the murder. His statements were used against him to place him at the scene of the crime, and as an accomplice. Defendant was ultimately convicted of murder. When the police tell you they will help you out, they are lying. Their only job is to investigate a case. The police will never help a suspect/person do anything but incriminate themselves. People v. Gurule (2002) 28 Cal.4th 557
​
(10) Police may ignore your request for a lawyer

There is an evidentiary loophole that allows voluntary statements, given in violation of Miranda, to be useable in court for impeachment purposes (challenging the defendant's credibility).

True story:
Strategically, police officers made an agreement prior to interviewing the defendant, that they would continue questioning Defendant if he invoked his right to an attorney. They knew that anything the Defendant said could not be used to prove his guilt, however anything the defendant said is admissible as "impeachment evidence," - which is evidence that tends to show that the Defendant is falsely testifying.

Defendant requested a lawyer 11 times over the course of a 4 hour interrogation, but each time after requesting a lawyer, the police ignored the request and asked another question to which the Defendant answered - and then resumed questioning. He then later admitted a rape and double homicide to police. He never saw a lawyer. Court found the defendant was not subjected to physical or psychological mistreatments and is mature and has had past criminal experience and that his statements were therefore voluntary and admissible. People v. Jablonski (2006) 37 Cal.4th 774

False confessions happen with a surprisingly high degree of frequency.

[ChaosCatalunya]

If you live in Chicago, I think violence from the local population is far more of a worry than the Police....

[DocTim420]

Originally Posted by ChaosCatalunya

If you live in Chicago, I think violence from the local population is far more of a worry than the Police....

Chicago's problems are all "locally sourced"--they had 762 murders in 2016, which is more than Los Angeles (294) and New York City (334) combined (628). All 3 cities are bastions of liberal policies that spanned decades.

Actually my friend and I were discussing how our Government(s) are authorized to lie to the country's citizenry--specifically the "3 letter" investigative organizations: FBI, IRS, CIA, SEC, NSA, DOD, NHS, DEA, DOE, GAO, FDA, FHA, FAA, HUD, ICE, etc. It seems that each organization has a rule/regulation that is "one way"--it is OK to lie to the people, but illegal for the people to lie to them.

I said the people need to be better organized so they can stand against the "one way" lying rules, and she sent me the link to the Chicago organization. She said to expect more websites in the future that will be instructing people how to "wiggle" around the "one way lying rule". She and her "liberal leaning" buddies are in the "know".

Although Cannabis is becoming "legal" or "less illegal"--there are still real dangers for some of us that "push the envelope". IMO, the best tactic to "wiggle" through an interrogation (beside being silent) is to respond with a "question". Questions are not like "statements". Questions are inquiries and are dubious at best--since they provide no "new information" and can be viewed as "need for clarification" but one thing they are not...they are not "admissions".

Q: Where were you at 9 PM last night?
A: Why do you think I was out last night?

Q: Who sold you that gun?
A: Who said I bought a gun?

Q: We know you were with Bill last night, who else was with you?
A: Who said I was with Bill last night?

[who dat is]

Good info here, subbed

[DocTim420]

[starke]

If you're not under arrest ask to leave. If you have been arrested shut up. If you keep a bat in your car for "unforeseen circumstances", keep a glove and ball also. Your attorney will thank you.

[dank.frank]

Keep your mouth shut. Say nothing. It's very simple. The more you say, the less they have to prove. They will twist everything you say and use it against you in a false light. There is a reason they are called "pigs". If they have any shred of proof, they won't waste their time trying to talk to you and fabricate it. They don't need a confession or an admission if they actually have evidence. Know the law. Know your rights. Exercise them.

This doesn't mean you have to be rude. It just means you don't have to put the nails in your own coffin.

The only thing you need to say - "Call my lawyer." If you don't have a rainy day fund set up and a lawyer on retainer and you are growing in a non-legal environment, then your priorities are skewed and you need to smarten up.

FTP.



dank.Frank

[Gry]

You get extra cookies on the way home if you tell the ranking officer that his wife was ugliest sow you have ever seen.

[944s2]

Originally Posted by starke

If you're not under arrest ask to leave. If you have been arrested shut up. If you keep a bat in your car for "unforeseen circumstances", keep a glove and ball also. Your attorney will thank you.

i keep a solid marble ball [ size of a baseball]inside a forces sock so i can chuck it when i play with my familys Rottweilercertainly knock you the hell out if somebody used it for self defence,,s2

[igrowone]

quite amazing are these stories
sadly, i believe them