Is this a good way to amend lots of old soil and combine new soil at the same time?

plantingplants · Nov 7, 2016

So I have rows of dirt right now, with two year old unamended soil at the bottom and one year old coots mix on top. All in all, 80-90 yards worth. I plan to buy another 40 yards of amended soil. I need to amend the old soil though, mix it with the new, and then get it all into big ole pots.

It seems like the best idea to kill two birds is to mix the two old soils together to make it homogenous, then do a soil test, then order the new soil with its amendments added PLUS the old soil's needed amendments, then when the new soil arrives, mix together all 120 yards.

So say the new soil is getting 250 lbs of gypsum, and the old 80 yards of soil gets tested and needs 125 lbs of gypsum-- I'd order the new soil to be mixed with 375 (250 for new, 125 for old) lbs of gypsum, and then everything evens out when I mix the old with the new.

Does anyone see any problem with that? Or a better way?

And does anyone have any tips on mixing 120 yards with a bobcat? Maybe I should get a bigger bucket.

Bradley_Danks · Nov 18, 2016

That might work or else blend the two soils, lab test them once homogenized, amend that soil as needed. Then order the new soil amended to your likings and lay it on top.

thatonedude · Nov 20, 2016

rent a cement mixer?? or put the soil in beds and use a rototiller. mixing with a babcat would be less physical work, but would also probably not mix the soil quite as evenly

Bud Green · Nov 20, 2016

you're gonna want something a whole lot bigger and stronger than a Bobcat to mix up 120 yards of soil..

aridbud · Nov 20, 2016

thatonedude said:
rent a cement mixer?? or put the soil in beds and use a rototiller. mixing with a babcat would be less physical work, but would also probably not mix the soil quite as evenly

Great idea!!! We did that. Or till under, work with shovel/rake.....Bobcat, tractor w/ front end loader....lot of dirt to turn under....little at a time if doing manually. Good luck!

aridbud · Nov 20, 2016

Bud Green Sr. said:
you're gonna want something a whole lot bigger and stronger than a Bobcat to mix up 120 yards of soil..

True! Bud knows! ;o)

plantingplants · Nov 20, 2016

I knew I should have asked here! I figured there would be something wrong with the plan. So a bobcat isnt enough for the job. Unfortunately i cant make beds. Its on a fairly steep hillside.

So maybe I'm just going to have to go the long route and mix the old soils together, dump in pot, amend with auger, and then dump the new soil on top. Problem is that once the pots are in place and fullof soil, theres no room to get the bobcat in and out efficiently. I don't have enough room to space them out as much as I'd like.

Wish i had more space!

brown_thumb · Nov 20, 2016

thatonedude said:
rent a cement mixer?? or put the soil in beds and use a rototiller. mixing with a babcat would be less physical work, but would also probably not mix the soil quite as evenly

I bought a used cement mixer because I have ambulatory issues. I can just dump whatever contents I need and switch it on then dump as needed. But I'm small-time growing in 5 gallon buckets.

Weird · Nov 20, 2016

i have used 1/3 old soil to 2/3 new active soil with no noticeable detriment

reppin2c · Nov 21, 2016

I like the original plan. All amendments in new soil. The best way to skid mix is in a row and roll it over and then roll it back. Granted it'll take 10 hours. A backhoe would be better. It won't be 100% evenly mixed but I'd hit it with the auger after the pots are full.

plantingplants · Nov 27, 2016

reppin2c said:
I like the original plan. All amendments in new soil. The best way to skid mix is in a row and roll it over and then roll it back. Granted it'll take 10 hours. A backhoe would be better. It won't be 100% evenly mixed but I'd hit it with
the auger after the pots are full.

Reppin, why a backhoe? Isnt that a small bucket?

And what do you mean roll the row over and back? Like push it with the bucket? Sounds like you know exactly what i need todo!

Space Case · Jan 16, 2017

Mixing with a bobcat will not do the best job, LOL! I know from experience!

HillMizer · Jan 16, 2017

definitely can use a bobcat.

A 90 horse tracked "bobcat" like the Takeuchi model I had at my place in the late summer can do a lot of work. There is an awesome tiller for the front. Till and flip till and flip.

I was thinking of homogenizing some of mine too, and adding some native. I think I'm going to use the track loader. The other good thing is it awesome in the hills and easier for a novice to operate than a rubber tired backhoe.

I've used both for mixing 40 yards in the past. I usually sprinkle and shovel/ tiller mix and water-in the amendments 2 weeks before I get the machine. Then I use the machine to mix and move the soil. I did it multiple years and it took me a full work day to mix 40 yard of old greenhouse soil and make 40 trips down to my old full season garden, it was like 1000ft trip?

The big backhoes have a 1 yard bucket vs. 1/2 yard trackloader so it is a lot better for long hauls. They are really top heavy machines though. I got a lot done with the rubber tired hoe in this spring at my place.

Concrete Mixer would be cool but you'd need to get a big mixer and a hopper to feed it with a loader. Shoveling into a homeowner mixer wouldnt be great. Better start now.

We could pitch in together on a week rental and I can haul it with my truck. I'm probably going to get a mini excavator too for a big terrace and have 1 guy on the loader and one on the hoe.

plantingplants · Jan 16, 2017

Mizer, I just sent in a sample of red clay. I'll share the results with you... although your clay might be a little different up there. Lot of serpentine.

Last two years I've used the smallest wheeled bobcat with a .41 yd bucket. I'm pretty comfortable with it but I do worry a little about a big front loader on my steep hill. The tracked ones are a little expensive but maybe it will be a good deal to split the rental.

I have a Q: Is it safe to use a tractor on clay on a pretty good grade considering all this rain? I've only used them after the rainy season but I'd like to get started ASAP but Jan and Feb are the wettest months...

_tessarecting · Jan 16, 2017

I had to throw a bag of perlite down to get the skip loader up my hill in April...no wait it was May I think

Just keep the bucket low when you go up.

If you find a good deal on a rental keep me.posted please the place.I used last year was very expensive

reppin2c · Jan 16, 2017

A backhoe is alot bigger then a skid loader.

Lift from the bottom, push, lift and roll the pile. Is what I was saying.

HillMizer · Jan 16, 2017

plantingplants said:
Mizer, I just sent in a sample of red clay. I'll share the results with you... although your clay might be a little different up there. Lot of serpentine.

Last two years I've used the smallest wheeled bobcat with a .41 yd bucket. I'm pretty comfortable with it but I do worry a little about a big front loader on my steep hill. The tracked ones are a little expensive but maybe it will be a good deal to split the rental.

I have a Q: Is it safe to use a tractor on clay on a pretty good grade considering all this rain? I've only used them after the rainy season but I'd like to get started ASAP but Jan and Feb are the wettest months...

The tracked machine is good to go anytime. The limiting factor may be your lack of desire to cause erosion and mud. I don't even mess with bobcat with wheels, they don't grade or push well and are not that stable. I'd rather do like Reppin says and use the backhoe with the big bucket. They are 4wd and you can use the hoe and downriggers to save your ass in the hills.

Ya we have some serpentine, it's famously terrible soil that harbors it's own group of endemic plants adapted to growing in high magnesium, high chromium and high nickel.

Track loader runs about about 1k per week. Plus tax and attachments. I think the place I use is buy 3 days get 5. Usually $500 for pickup and delivery. Looking at 2k with fuel. If you have a big truck you can pick up a bobcat, but construction backhoe weighs 9000lb+ so you gotta have your ducks in a row.

Sometimes it may be better to hire an operator who can work more quickly. People that run equipment for a living can get a lot done efficiently, but it's like $100/hour maybe more these days. I know a guy up here, he might be a good deal.

I was a farm kid then an operator for a developer for a short time. Another life.

plantingplants · Jan 16, 2017

I just moved dirt with the cat, tho i did cut into the hill to level a spot for a pool. Worked alright tho i dont really know what i'm doing. Should have used a level

So is a heavy-ass 1yd bucket backhoe ok on slippery hills or just tracked?

I know a guy up there too now that I think about it. He worked for a good price for my buddy.

Tess maybe we could all split one if it makes sense. Anyway i'll pm you the reasonably priced company I use. We used one around the same time actually. I had no problem on May 1st. But jan-mar is way wetter than apr/may

_tessarecting · Jan 16, 2017

The only problem I had with the 1yrd skip loader up my hill was at full capacity it had trouble with the traction so I had to undercut the yard amt and basically guessed how much to dump. Some of it, the bottom, was heavier than the stuff on the top. So if you can dry your soil even tho you're not really supposed to it may help.

Other ideas.

Remove all slick oak leaves. Have a fuck ton of sand on hand. See if the place will rent chains for the wheels.

plantingplants · Jan 16, 2017

Sometimes when they say bucket volume they dont say that its the heaped measurement. Fyi.

Chains, that is a good idea. Guess i didnt realize that youcould use chains for heavy machinery

Is this a good way to amend lots of old soil and combine new soil at the same time?

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