What's new

Beginning Signs of Root Problems in DWC

S

SamsonsRiddle

Active member
There has been some slight browning on the roots above the water level (about 1-2"), while the ones under the water are white.

I know the temperature needs to stay in the upper 60's at the highest, and have done really well at accomplishing that with frozen water bottles. However, there have been periods where temps have reached as high as 73 (for under an hour).

I think the problem must have originated from the combination of just over ideal temp along with too little DO. I have been using this pump
--> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Aqua-Cul...rium-Air-Pump-1-Ct-Fish-Aquatic-Pets/10532634
to bubble up my 3-3.5 gallons of water - which seems to be way to weak.

Another main point to add here is that I have used Great White at the rate of 1/4 tsp for the whole amount of water, with only changing the water twice at this point. (3 weeks in)

The question I have for everyone is: When I add my new pump and become more tedious at keeping the temperatures below 70, will my plants be able to fight of the pythium or whatever else is attacking my roots? I really don't want to use peroxide or bleach so any help would be appreciated.
 
S

SamsonsRiddle

Active member
To clarify a few things. The temps i referred to above were the water temps inside the tote, averaging right at 68 degrees but swinging from 62-73, mostly between 65-70 (95% of the time).

The reason I thought it may be some kind of root rot or root problem is that the ppm drops every night and the ph drops every night.

Yesterday I topped off to make my ppm (.5 scale) up to 360 from 280 and brought the ph from 5.4 to 6.0. Today, it went down to 260 and the ph was 4.9. I topped off today and brought it back up to 360 and ph'ed it to 6.2.

I have tried higher and lower ppm, any higher and i get clawing and burning on the new growth, and it seems to start to fade yellow before i up the ph every day.
 
S

SamsonsRiddle

Active member
I'm using dyna gro protekt with dyna gro grow at a 1:4 ratio of protekt : grow and 1ml/gallon of floralicious plus with GH ph up/down. RO and distilled water.
 
S

SamsonsRiddle

Active member
I guess no one is going to respond. Today i was reading that it may be due to the kind of PH up i have been using (GH). I read about Potassium Bicarbonate as a better substitute for PH up, so I am going to invest some Earth Juice PH up and see what happens.

I'll leave my results here so people can see what my problem was and how it was resolved or not.
 
T

TreehouseJ

Dutch master gold zone @ 1 ml per gallon. Bigger air pumps allows for higher water temps. I've worked with small commercial air pumps and warm water (~80f) just fine.
 
S

SamsonsRiddle

Active member
TreehouseJ said:
Dutch master gold zone @ 1 ml per gallon. Bigger air pumps allows for higher water temps. I've worked with small commercial air pumps and warm water (~80f) just fine.
Click to expand...
I actually got good news before my trip to the garden center. I stopped by walmart and picked up another of the same air pump and used some t's to make each pump t'ed into one line to one air stone each.

The next day i checked my ppm/ph and the ppm's had dropped a little, but the ph had dropped a lot less! only lost between .2, .4! This is a huge step in the right direction. This made it so i didn't have to purchase the other ph up since the extra DO seems to have fixed the problem.

I have mixed up some stronger solution and am going to raise my ph back up to around 6 with more ppms (trying to get in the 400 range, .5 scale) and hopefully everything will be back to it's exceptional looks as it was about a week and a half ago.

I'm going to hold off on the DMZ for now since I am using Great White, but will keep it in the back of my head if I need a strong fix.

Thanks for the reply
 
T

TreehouseJ

I wouldn't call gz a "strong fix". It's just keeps your water sterile. I use 1 ml per gallon all through veg and bloom. I haven't had great experiences with "live" reservoirs. Pool shock is probably a much cheaper solution, but then you've either got to buy a chlorine meter or play the guessing game.
 
T

TreehouseJ

I order everything on ebay. Had I never found goldzone, I would have wound up going with bleach or pool shock + a chlorine meter. I say get a chlorine meter because, well, too much and your plants will die, too little and they could get sick.. and die. Also the chlorine gasses out form the water quicker than you'd think. I've tried winging it like a lot of guys here, just "tossing a few drops in everyday", but I def don't think I was using enough. There is always the "beneficial bacteria" route but that's a slippery slope. Sterile>living, ime.
 
S

SamsonsRiddle

Active member
i already have the beneficial bacteria in there (great White), but i still think it might be the amount of air flow that is causing my problems. i'm hoping to pick up a small commercial pump or something with some real airflow because these little walmart pumps aren't getting it.

I've also been reading about sm-90 and have heard contradictory things... However, it is half the price and can get it locally. i know if i start adding this that my rez will no longer be living, but better growth is more important to me than anything.

the other reason i have been weighing my options is that i use floralicious plus @ 1ml/gallon - which is a semi organic additive that has worked well for me in promix containers. i'm not sure how these will effect each other.

thanks a lot for the help, really appreciate it.
 
T

TreehouseJ

SamsonsRiddle said:
i already have the beneficial bacteria in there (great White), but i still think it might be the amount of air flow that is causing my problems. i'm hoping to pick up a small commercial pump or something with some real airflow because these little walmart pumps aren't getting it.

I've also been reading about sm-90 and have heard contradictory things... However, it is half the price and can get it locally. i know if i start adding this that my rez will no longer be living, but better growth is more important to me than anything.

the other reason i have been weighing my options is that i use floralicious plus @ 1ml/gallon - which is a semi organic additive that has worked well for me in promix containers. i'm not sure how these will effect each other.

thanks a lot for the help, really appreciate it.
Click to expand...

I've seen those little walmart air pumps pump out the most crucial buds ever.. More oxygen cant hurt though. I would honestly try and forget about sm-90. Bleach or pool shock are going to be your tried, tested, and universally approved methods, not to mention the cheapest. I love the idea of growing in a healthy living water, I just think, IMO, that you should try going sterile first. I might never even try going the beni route again, just because I like to be able to factor out different problems right off the bat. Mainly, I always underfeed so that I know I'm not burning my plants and I keep a sterile res so that I know nothing funky is going on in there. It's a lot easier to fix issues as they come up when I can rule a few things out. I have wicked sciatic pain, so I try and do everything possible to guarantee success, regardless of whether or not I think there is a better way to do things. Until marijuana becomes legal/affordable, I'll go with whatever I feel guarantees success over what I feel will improve my product.
 
T

TreehouseJ

Also, as a rule of thumb, I wouldn't use more than 1 ml of any particular additive in your water. My mentor has gone through all the brands and all the additives and left them in the dust. 3 part gh + calmag = FIRE SAUCE. His weed is second to nobodies. Just as fire without any supplements. More bottles are not only unnecessary, but they spell trouble, IME.
 
S

SamsonsRiddle

Active member
its funny you say that because i use the one part dyna gro foliage pro during veg and their bloom (plus a little foliage pro to keep the n up enough to keep them green until harvest). I was gifted some trial size from a garden store and haven't looked back. I actually spent lots of time researching different chem nutes and the people who use them and found that this one is simple and complete. (Haven't needed calmag since the first few weeks in my first coco grow).

Hell, in promix all i had to do what foliage pro from seed to harvest. However, i did add the silicon supplement (Dyna Gro ProTekt) and like I said Floralicious Plus @ 1ml/gallon which made a noticeable difference in fragrance and taste (sea kelp, humics, and something else). I learned most of what i know from Homebrewer and uncle ben when i was on trollitup.

I have done DWC once a few years ago, but with a completely different set-up. 3 5 gallon buckets with 2 air pumps - did one no wrap, one wrapped in duct tape, and one wrapped in duct and spray painted black. you can guess the results. However, they all turned out very good and were on a very cold basement floor. One thing i remember was that the air flow was like a rolling boil and in my current set-up it's about 1/3rd of that. Maybe my air stones are too big for these air pumps?
 
T

TreehouseJ

I learned from Rumpleforekin on .. oh gawd I can't even remember the name of the forum.. back in like.. 03, and he used tiny air pumps with tiny air stones. You could hardly see the bubbles, and he insisted that big pumps and stones weren't needed. When I did bio-buckets there was almost 0 bubbles, just the little waterfall which kept everything oxygenated. I'm on both sides of the fence. I don't think you need more than a small pump, but.. my water is always rapidly churning and bubbling with my oversized 35w pump which only feeds 4 buckets. She is pretty loud though.
 
LostTribe

LostTribe

Well-known member
Premium user
SamsonsRiddle said:
There has been some slight browning on the roots above the water level (about 1-2"), while the ones under the water are white.

I know the temperature needs to stay in the upper 60's at the highest, and have done really well at accomplishing that with frozen water bottles. However, there have been periods where temps have reached as high as 73 (for under an hour).

I think the problem must have originated from the combination of just over ideal temp along with too little DO. I have been using this pump
--> https://www.walmart.com/ip/Aqua-Cul...rium-Air-Pump-1-Ct-Fish-Aquatic-Pets/10532634
to bubble up my 3-3.5 gallons of water - which seems to be way to weak.

Another main point to add here is that I have used Great White at the rate of 1/4 tsp for the whole amount of water, with only changing the water twice at this point. (3 weeks in)

The question I have for everyone is: When I add my new pump and become more tedious at keeping the temperatures below 70, will my plants be able to fight of the pythium or whatever else is attacking my roots? I really don't want to use peroxide or bleach so any help would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

The beginning signs of root problems in your dwc began when you made the choice to try dwc. Kick the DWC bucket and get some real hydro! Hydroton ROCKS!

As for a remedy you might consider adding sm90 to your nutes and maybe a tiny bit of cannazyme to keep the roots looking good. I tried DWC and RDWC for a long time what a waste looking back. You want the plastic and stone long air stones and as big an air pump as you can afford.

I run a 5 gallon version of this but fewer trees and vertical.

Soquick Icmag is boring as shit! An instant classic!
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=7366
 
Last edited:
S

SamsonsRiddle

Active member
LostTribe said:
The beginning signs of root problems in your dwc began when you made the choice to try dwc. Kick the DWC bucket and get some real hydro! Hydroton ROCKS!

As for a remedy you might consider adding sm90 to your nutes and maybe a tiny bit of cannazyme to keep the roots looking good. I tried DWC and RDWC for a long time what a waste looking back. You want the plastic and stone long air stones and as big an air pump as you can afford.

I run a 5 gallon version of this but fewer trees and vertical.

Soquick Icmag is boring as shit! An instant classic!
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=7366
Click to expand...

i have a tiny space and very limited knowledge in gardening other than the years i have spent on message boards and reading. in other words i am book smart, but have limited experience (less than 5 years).

the limited space has worked fine for me, but there isn't much room for anything in a 2'x2'x5.5' space. i went with dwc this time to save on the amount of times running water back and forth.

Last time i did a blumat system, but was underwhelmed. Mostly my error i'm sure, but constantly sitting there watching it dropped turned into a thing i couldn't avoid.

thanks for the reply and info, i'm going to look into that growing method for next time.
 
S

SamsonsRiddle

Active member
TreehouseJ said:
I learned from Rumpleforekin on .. oh gawd I can't even remember the name of the forum.. back in like.. 03, and he used tiny air pumps with tiny air stones. You could hardly see the bubbles, and he insisted that big pumps and stones weren't needed. When I did bio-buckets there was almost 0 bubbles, just the little waterfall which kept everything oxygenated. I'm on both sides of the fence. I don't think you need more than a small pump, but.. my water is always rapidly churning and bubbling with my oversized 35w pump which only feeds 4 buckets. She is pretty loud though.
Click to expand...
I've got my bubbles going now. i'm doing a res change today, so i am going to add a small amount of bleach. this will only be a one time thing because i have a trip to the DM outlet planned for this week.

i got a much bigger pump and 6 more air stones :p i've now got 2 good round air stones and 6 little rocks. I was afraid i wouldn't have a way to weigh them down, then i just lifted up my huge mass of roots and set them on top of them :p
 
S

SamsonsRiddle

Active member
TreehouseJ said:
I order everything on ebay. Had I never found goldzone, I would have wound up going with bleach or pool shock + a chlorine meter. I say get a chlorine meter because, well, too much and your plants will die, too little and they could get sick.. and die. Also the chlorine gasses out form the water quicker than you'd think. I've tried winging it like a lot of guys here, just "tossing a few drops in everyday", but I def don't think I was using enough. There is always the "beneficial bacteria" route but that's a slippery slope. Sterile>living, ime.
Click to expand...
Will this work to test?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/HTH-3-Way-Test-Kit/17043605
 
T

TreehouseJ

I never got around to buying a chlorine meter before I went the gold zone route, nor have I ever used a chlorine strip, but yes, those strips should work perfectly fine, providing that they have an indicator for your 1ppm or whatever it is . Might not be as convenient as a digital meter, but I'll trust strips before I trust a consumer grade digital meter any day of the week. There might be chlorine strips that are designed to indicate lower levels, perhaps at pet smart or somethin'.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Latest posts

Top