[pop_rocks]

first we are going to get your cloning technique down so you can take consistent, healthy cuts
depending on how you want to grow, you can flower numerous smaller plants or fewer larger plants so timing is something that is easier to adjust
what size container did you use the last time?
you could always cut that size in half (or more) and flower twice the number and still come away with as much if not more
/maybe it would be a good exercise for you to try one day just to do, we can talk bout that later

i would hold off on moving the plants into the 600w tent for a bit
right now they are more limited by the size of their roots than anything else
once they grow a larger root mass then they can handle more light

yeah i totally know what you mean about bringing in new strains to mix things up a bit
lets see how you like the larry and gsc first
you can always throw down those two blackwater seeds if you want as well
that will give you three strains growing at once
i would not try growing too many different strains until you have dialed in your grow and gotten to know the plants a bit better
its better to do a few things really well than take on too much and get overwhelmed
plus, lets see how these babies turn out
/talked to a friend and he confirmed the minty cookie

rib eyes are the king of the cow man
i like a good porterhouse too, but rib eye is something special
ill talk to my mom soon and see about the grinder
makeing mrauts sounds rad
we have a good german market/ restaurant near where i work but i would rather make my own

[Tri_Cho_Me]

Originally Posted by pop_rocks

hey hey buddy!
hope you dont mind if i walk in circles a few times and make myself at home

I'm dying!


Congrats Fiddynut! Looks like you're off to a good start with your second grow. Can't wait to see your thumb get greener. I am heading in the organic/no-till direction myself.

Good luck!
Tri_Cho_Me

[Fiddynut]

Originally Posted by pop_rocks

first we are going to get your cloning technique down so you can take consistent, healthy cuts
depending on how you want to grow, you can flower numerous smaller plants or fewer larger plants so timing is something that is easier to adjust
what size container did you use the last time?
you could always cut that size in half (or more) and flower twice the number and still come away with as much if not more
/maybe it would be a good exercise for you to try one day just to do, we can talk bout that later

i would hold off on moving the plants into the 600w tent for a bit
right now they are more limited by the size of their roots than anything else
once they grow a larger root mass then they can handle more light

yeah i totally know what you mean about bringing in new strains to mix things up a bit
lets see how you like the larry and gsc first
you can always throw down those two blackwater seeds if you want as well
that will give you three strains growing at once
i would not try growing too many different strains until you have dialed in your grow and gotten to know the plants a bit better
its better to do a few things really well than take on too much and get overwhelmed
plus, lets see how these babies turn out
/talked to a friend and he confirmed the minty cookie

rib eyes are the king of the cow man
i like a good porterhouse too, but rib eye is something special
ill talk to my mom soon and see about the grinder
makeing mrauts sounds rad
we have a good german market/ restaurant near where i work but i would rather make my own

Good afternoon pop_rocks.
I've herd of people growing a bunch of small plants I think called sea of green. Once I get the hang of taking cuttings I think I'd be down to try it. If growing from seed it could get expensive to pop 15 or 20 seeds for that.
The last grow finished in 14" round pots. A 5 gal bucket fits into these pots and is slightly taller than the pot but the pot is wider at the top so I'm guessing they hold at least 5 gal of soil. I have some 10" and 12" pots that I was trying to grow tomatoes and peppers in last summer. I was planing on 3 plants just like last time. I was originally going to grow 4 last time but had one male and was left with 3 and in hindsight it would have been pretty crowded in there with 4. I also want to add a tower fan in one corner of tent and would have had plenty of space with 3.
Will hold off on moving them to the 600 for a while but was thinking that since I had the space available on this one I could cut the time down with more light once I take cuttings and they are big enough to handle it.
So far I haven't seen the GSC sprout so I'll give it a couple more days. If I don't get another seedling soon I'm worried that the 2 I have will be too far ahead and that will complicate things. If I was confident I could successfully clone I'd be more inclined to pop more than I need and just keep them as mothers and grow them out on the next run. As it is I may have to pop a couple more and hope for the best.
I like your philosophy of doing a few well and not getting overwhelmed. I still have so much to learn and a lot of confidence to gain that I could easily become overwhelmed. Nice to hear that there is a minty pheno and cc describes these as thin mint.

I love a good porterhouse too. Something about the fat right up against the bone that is so succulent. Plus getting a tenderloin and a ny strip in one steak is boss.

[Fiddynut]

Originally Posted by Tri_Cho_Me

I'm dying!


Congrats Fiddynut! Looks like you're off to a good start with your second grow. Can't wait to see your thumb get greener. I am heading in the organic/no-till direction myself.

Good luck!
Tri_Cho_Me

Thanks Tri_Cho_Me. The baby's are small and growing slowly at this point. I can't wait until they take off in a few weeks. I hope my thumb gets greener too. Looking forward to seeing your updates and how your girls are doing.

[Fiddynut]

Just a quick update tonight. The baby's were thirsty tonight so a little water for them. I pH'd the water with a very little bit of earth juice. Since I'm not using the earth juice as a nute on this grow at least I can use it to lower my pH. This bottle is so acidic it seems like it's as good as pH down and takes very little to get my water to low to mid 6's. My two Larry's are looking good. I'm trying to sprout a third seed but it has not popped up yet. Kind of boring so far and not much to do but watch them until they need water next time.

[pop_rocks]

yes, its called sea of green!
one of the first indoor grows i ever saw that impressed me was tihs sweet carpet of 18" tall plants, each one like a bottle brush of bud
no side branching just fat tops
you would want to use the samller pot so you can pack them in tihgter and we would hvae to figure out a watering scheme that would work for you
/maybe something automated with drip lines, but that is for a later conversation

first we want to get your plants happy and growing so we can see what is what
ill keep my fingers crossed for your gsc, but sometimes seed just dosent pop
we could always work with the larry tho
what we want is to start taking some cuts and then figure out which will be the best

you nailed it wiht the fat next to the bone comment!
not only does the bone add something to the meat but my dog will sit on the porch for an hour gnawing on them
its like getting a treat for both of us!

[Fiddynut]

Originally Posted by pop_rocks

yes, its called sea of green!
one of the first indoor grows i ever saw that impressed me was tihs sweet carpet of 18" tall plants, each one like a bottle brush of bud
no side branching just fat tops
you would want to use the samller pot so you can pack them in tihgter and we would hvae to figure out a watering scheme that would work for you
/maybe something automated with drip lines, but that is for a later conversation

first we want to get your plants happy and growing so we can see what is what
ill keep my fingers crossed for your gsc, but sometimes seed just dosent pop
we could always work with the larry tho
what we want is to start taking some cuts and then figure out which will be the best

you nailed it wiht the fat next to the bone comment!
not only does the bone add something to the meat but my dog will sit on the porch for an hour gnawing on them
its like getting a treat for both of us!

Good morning pop_rocks.
I'd be down to try sea of green sometime for sure. I would bet it works best with cuttings from the same plant so they grow the same hight and you can get the canopy even and keep it that way as they grow.

I think my plants are looking good and I'm pretty sure my GSC sprout is going to make it. I'll tell more about plant status in an update next.

I've been reading about VPD in a few threads on icmag. Not sure if you believe in the charts or not but I have a very low humidity for the temps I'm at. I'm pretty sure that trying to get my humidity up into the 70% range would be bad in my environment. I guess that I'm reading that optimal VPD increases the growth rate but I'm not sure how it affects stress and health of plants. I don't want mold so I keep humidity low and that seemed to work out last time. Maybe I'll dial up me dehuey up 5% and see what that does for me. I'll have to read a bit more before I make any big changes. With the change of season my temps are around 69 deg lights off and 73 deg lights on.

I'll be going to the hydro shop this weekend and getting a humidity dome, some rooter plugs, and rooting gel. I also will get superthrive since I've herd such good things about that stuff. I'm also thinking about getting mykos because I'm hearing that it is very beneficial for roots. I also need sticky cards in case I get any bugs again that should trap,one so I can get a close look at them and decide on the best way to deal with them.

That's great that you share your steak bone with your furry friend. I bet she loves that special treat. I made a nice ny strip steak for dinner last night with a giant potato and some nice locally grown veggies. Simple and delicious. I couldn't help but post it in the food porn thread.

[Fiddynut]

Time for an update and the baby's are looking good. I'm not sure if it was the earth juice or what but they have been growing a bunch and doubled in width in the last 2 days. The ej shouldn't be too strong for them with an npk of 2-1-1. I used 1/16 tsp in 3 cups water so I'm keeping it light for the 10 day old seedlings. I'll probably use it the next couple waterings but soon I'll have to start using the synthetic stuff to get them use to it. Still not sure what dosage to give them but I'll start with 1/2 or 1/4 recommended dose and work up from there.

Good news for my GSC sprout as well. It's up and the stem looks thick and healthy. It hadn't shed it's hull yet as of this morning but I'm sure it will soon. It will be interesting to see if it catches up with the 2 Larry OG seedlings that are about 6 or 7 days ahead of it. I may top the Larry's twice and the GSC only once if it still needs to catch up towards the end of veg.

On my to do list is to get to grow shop and get cloning supplies, superthrive, makos, and sticky traps. I also want to read more about VPD and plant health. Other than that not much to do but watch these baby's grow and give them love.

Here are a couple pics.

[pop_rocks]

could you discribe this vpd to me?
/...i.... am...... feeling....very......lazy

its not an acronym im familiar wiht
its weird that you mention humidiyt, because once you mentioned being concerned about your RH getting into the 60s and because of where i live 60-70% rh is normal

yes, spot on about why you would want to use clones in a sea of green
not only do you get unform growth but you are growing the most potent example of the strain you are running

its also easier to trim because you dont really have much larf to mull over
you just take the top x" of plant and the rest goes to the hash pile

sorry if im missing something here but which pic is of the new gsc seedling?

[Fiddynut]

Originally Posted by pop_rocks

could you discribe this vpd to me?
/...i.... am...... feeling....very......lazy

its not an acronym im familiar wiht
its weird that you mention humidiyt, because once you mentioned being concerned about your RH getting into the 60s and because of where i live 60-70% rh is normal

yes, spot on about why you would want to use clones in a sea of green
not only do you get unform growth but you are growing the most potent example of the strain you are running

its also easier to trim because you dont really have much larf to mull over
you just take the top x" of plant and the rest goes to the hash pile

sorry if im missing something here but which pic is of the new gsc seedling?

Vapour Pressure Deficit, or VPD, is the difference (deficit) between the amount of moisture in the air and how much moisture the air can hold when it is saturated. Once air becomes saturated water will condense out to form clouds, dew or films of water over leaves. It is this last instance that makes VPD important for greenhouse regulation. If a film of water forms on a plant leaf it becomes far more susceptible to rot. On the other hand, as the VPD increases the plant needs to draw more water from its roots. In the case of cuttings, the plant may dry out and die. For this reason the ideal range for VPD in a greenhouse is from 0.45 kPa to 1.25 kPa, ideally sitting at around 0.85 kPa. As a general rule, most plants grow well at VPDs of between 0.8 and 0.95 kPa [1] - copied from Wikipedia.

Originally Posted by Kcar
Here is a simpler explanation

Humidity and Vapour Pressure Deficit (VPD)

For years Relative Humidity (RH) has been used as a measure of how much water vapour is present in the air and is probably still the preferred method used by experienced growers. In a greenhouse, the amount of water vapour present has a direct effect on a plants ability to transpire and hence grow.

Another measure called vapour pressure deficit (VPD) is also used to indicate humidity and is felt to be more directly related to a plants wellbeing. VPD combines the effects of both humidity AND temperature into one value and so gives a good indication of plant wellbeing without the need for the grower to do any mental arithmetic. VPD values run in the opposite way to RH values so when RH is high VPD is low.

If humidity is too low (i.e. high VPD), the stomata on the leaves tend to close in order to limit transpiration and prevent wilting. This closing of the stomata will also limit the rate of CO2 uptake and hence limit photosynthesis and consequently plant growth. Low humidity also reduces turgidity (water pressure within the plant cells) and this in turn also restricts growth. Blossom end rot in tomatoes and capsicum can also be attributed to low humidity (high VPD).

Conversely, if humidity is too high (i.e. low VPD) the stomata will fully open but even so the plants will be unable to evaporate enough water to carry minerals into the plant and so again, growth will be impeded and mineral deficiencies (particularly calcium) may occur. In addition, the plants may exhibit soft growth, fungal problems and mineral deficiency symptoms.

It is frequently stated that VPD more closely matches what the plant "feels" in relation to temperature and humidity and therefore forms a better basis for environment control. Unfortunately, VPD is extremely difficult to determine accurately as it is necessary to know the leaf tissue temperature. Attempts to measure leaf temperature reliably on an ongoing basis have often ended in disaster. One of the problems is that the plants leaves are in differing amounts of sun with some leaves in full sun, some in partial sun and others in full shade. This makes the concept of "leaf tissue temperature" particularly complex.

By measuring the temperature and relative humidity within the crop canopy the calculated VPD is still a useful measure as it combines both temperature and humidity into a single measure in a way that approximates the well-being of the crop. As an example, for many crops it is suggested that RH should be kept between the following limits at the stated temperatures:-


Temperature oC Min RH (apply fogging) Ideal RH Max RH (for disease prevention)
15 - 50 73
20 46 64 80
25 60 73 86
30 70 80 89

You can see from the table that the higher the temperature is the more humidity is required by the plants. The above makes it difficult to specify control parameters as different RH settings are required at different temperatures.

Now look how much simpler this is made by using VPD as the whole of the above table is contained in just three VPD values as follows
Maximum VPD (too hot and dry - apply fogging) VPD ideal

VPD too low (too cool and humid -warm/ dehumidify)
1.25 0.85 0.45

AutoVent 2 and 3 environment controllers estimate the VPD based on the air temperature and humidity in the crop canopy. It will only be close to the true figure for a healthy transpiring crop. The VPD calculator below allows the VPD to be estimated based on both air and leaf temperatures. This clearly shows the possible error in VPD due to just a 1 deg C difference between air and leaf temperature.

As a general rule, most plants grow well at VPDs of between 0.8 to 0.95 KPa

Fogging or other humdification is usually applied at VPDs above 1.25KPa and heating and dehumidification at VPDs below 0.45KPa

The above is from a thread on icmag - https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=331510

There are quite a few threads on icmag about this and many growers swear by it. At the same time I've herd that it works well on the west coast but not as well in the Midwest whare there is more mold spores floating around. Some say you need to seal the room up and use hepa filters to get humidity this high without mould issue. I grow in the basement of a 60 year old house and creating a sealed room with filtered air is not really an option.

So I'm wondering if ideal VPD is just a way to optimize growth or if it has a general effect on plant health and if I should try to get my humidity up a bit. I don't want to make big changes over last grow because I'd hate to loose a whole harvest to mold or something. I'm sure if I keep reading the answers will be their.

The GSC seedling is nearly visible in the group photo but here is a better one.