What kind of hardware do I need to pull liquid butane from a 50# tank?

Previously, I've only done open extractions with a stainless steel tube and 10oz cans. Someone gifted me a 50# tank of butane. it has an internal liquid siphon tube and a flare fitting. How can the flare fitting be be rigged to a hose that goes into a hole in the rubber stopper at the top of the extraction tube? Or am I stuck with 5 gallons of butane I cant use unless I have a closed loop system?

balsamfirgreen said:

Previously, I've only done open extractions with a stainless steel tube and 10oz cans. Someone gifted me a 50# tank of butane. it has an internal liquid siphon tube and a flare fitting. How can the flare fitting be be rigged to a hose that goes into a hole in the rubber stopper at the top of the extraction tube? Or am I stuck with 5 gallons of butane I cant use unless I have a closed loop system?

Click to expand...

A refrigeration hose will have the correct 1/4" SAE Flare to connect with the valve. You use a 1/4" fitting at the other end, adapted to your tube, or cut one end off and adapt it to fit whatever.

If it is in a LP-50 tank, with a propane valve, you can get the propane tank fitting from an RV dealer.

Ecogreen, the refrigerant gas supplier used to sell an adapter hose with a 1/4" flare connector on one end and a squirt nozzle on the other. I'd go with a 1/4" PTFE lined refrigeration hose to a flare to NPT thread adapter connected to a 1/4" ball valve on top your tube.

Check out the pics here,
http://www.bestvaluevacs.com/cce90.html


That said, you shouldn't be using refrigerant grade gas to open extract unless you've tested it yourself. A basic solvent test is to place some in a vessel, let it evaporate off, and weigh/observe the residuals.

Here's the butane test I came up with,

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=6885056#post6885056

more on the tank...

more on the tank...

SkyHighLer said:

Ecogreen, the refrigerant gas supplier used to sell an adapter hose with a 1/4" flare connector on one end and a squirt nozzle on the other. I'd go with a 1/4" PTFE lined refrigeration hose to a flare to NPT thread adapter connected to a 1/4" ball valve on top your tube.

Check out the pics here,
http://www.bestvaluevacs.com/cce90.html

So the order of the hose should be 1/4" Flare to NPT adapter connected to the siphon tube on the tank, followed by a ball valve to control the flow, followed by PTFE line hose, any ideas on what do use as a squirt nozzle? The one I have looks like this: http://www.bestvaluevacs.com/r600-30lbs.html except its 50lbs, the flow of the butane is controlled by the ball valve, right, and I would never touch The green handle at the top would let the butane out as gas, correct?

That said, you shouldn't be using refrigerant grade gas to open extract unless you've tested it yourself. A basic solvent test is to place some in a vessel, let it evaporate off, and weigh/observe the residuals.

The tank came from Caliextractions, so I think its safe, quote from their website: "Free of any hydrogen sulphide based ethyl mercaptan odorants. This product is clean, colorless and non-odorized. " but I will check it first anyway.
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Click to expand...

^ That's R-600 refrigerant grade butane, exactly what I'm saying is unacceptable for open extraction unless the tank you're going to use is first sample tested. Squirt a cups' worth into an open ziplock type plastic bag, let it boil off, and see/smell what you've got.

The only bulk gas that is probably ok to use for open extraction without testing would be industrial gas, I've tested RHS's,

https://www.instagram.com/refinedhydrocarbon/

http://refinedhydrocarbonsolutions.com


Here's Ecogreen's lighter refill adapter,

https://ecogreenindustries.net/product/filling-adapter-kit/

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6398814&postcount=213


If you're in SoCal, I have an extra new adapter - trade you for some popcorn nuggs or high grade trim.


While I was looking up the adapter at Ecogreen I found this "Certificate of Analysis" - which I'm totally pissed off about (I'm literally shaking at this moment!)

https://ecogreenindustries.net/wp-c...tical-COA_R600a-R290-Custom-Blend_29AUG16.pdf

"Propane Purity 99.96%" & "No additional hydrocarbons detected below C-6" is being used to state their gas is 99.96% pure when the test they're using doesn't test for non-volatile residue. You squirt a cups worth of that liquid butane/propane blend into a plastic bag, let it boil off, and you'll see/smell crap. This is greedy, hateful, obfuscation of the truth, they know better, I've had it out with them in emails and on the phone.

Specialty Analytical's Certificate of Analysis states nothing one way or another about non-volatile residue, either whether they tested for it, or if they did, that none was to be found. If the Certificate of Analysis shows no non-volatile residue, or that it's level was way down below the levels of the other contaminants listed, undetectable, let's hear someone say that if you distilled the entire tank's worth you'd find no mystery oil at the bottom of the recovery tank.

To Sean at Ecogreen, did you do my test to double check the lab's results? Are your guy's up there telling you they're finding zero mystery oil after distillation?

I've shown over and over the labs don't yet have the equipment to do direct injection liquid chromatography that would also determine the non-volatile content, and they can't or won't do accurate boil off testing, the actual industry standard, which I simplified and refined into my boil off test:

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6885056&postcount=593


I've since tested and retested RHS gas, it's clean, though I wish they'd double check every huge bulk tank they get in with my test before repackaging it.

Im pissed now too to the caliextraction claims the same thing..99.999% pure to metacarpans/sulfur dioxide, etc. That would suck if its unusable.. but it would be usuable with a closed column like the link you gave here http://www.bestvaluevacs.com/cce90.htm or only for closed loop system, or not at all? Why in the world do they sell it with open extractors then?

^ If I were in your shoes I'd shoot some to an open ziplock bag, let it boil off, and see/smell what I've got. The canned butane brands I tested all were under a certain level of mystery oil, as it can't clog the orifices of torch lighters, but not so with refrigerant gases, they have their own standards, and no one to enforce them.

I've discussed this with the major players, they won't behave, to say it kindly.

Ecogreen even has the 99.97% result from Specialty Analytical printed on their boxes in huge numerals. I repeat, no where on the Certificate of Analysis does it state, or even imply the lab (or anyone) tested for non-volatile residue (Mystery Oil.) The COA simply doesn't state what ASTM test was used,

"Liquefied Petroleum Gas

Designation Title
D1265 - 11 Standard Practice for Sampling Liquefied Petroleum (LP) Gases, Manual Method
D1267 - 12 Standard Test Method for Gage Vapor Pressure of Liquefied Petroleum (LP) Gases (LP-Gas Method)
D1835 - 16 Standard Specification for Liquefied Petroleum (LP) Gases
D1837 - 11 Standard Test Method for Volatility of Liquefied Petroleum (LP) Gases
D1838 - 16 Standard Test Method for Copper Strip Corrosion by Liquefied Petroleum (LP) Gases
D2158 - 11 Standard Test Method for Residues in Liquefied Petroleum (LP) Gases
D2420 - 13 Standard Test Method for Hydrogen Sulfide in Liquefied Petroleum (LP) Gases (Lead Acetate Method)
D2421 - 13 Standard Practice for Interconversion of Analysis of C5 and Lighter Hydrocarbons to Gas-Volume, Liquid-Volume, or Mass Basis
D2598 - 12 Standard Practice for Calculation of Certain Physical Properties of Liquefied Petroleum (LP) Gases from Compositional Analysis
D2713 - 15 Standard Test Method for Dryness of Propane (Valve Freeze Method)
D3700 - 14 Standard Practice for Obtaining LPG Samples Using a Floating Piston Cylinder
D5305 - 12 Standard Test Method for Determination of Ethyl Mercaptan in LP-Gas Vapor
D7756 - 13 Standard Test Method for Residues in Liquefied Petroleum (LP) Gases by Gas Chromatography with Liquid, On-Column Injection
D7828 - 12 Standard Test Method for Determination of Residue Composition in Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LPG) Using Automated Thermal Desorption/Gas Chromatography (ATD/GC)
D7901 - 14b Standard Specification for Dimethyl Ether for Fuel Purposes"

https://www.astm.org/Standards/petroleum-standards.html#D02.H0

As I've said, without knowing what I was doing, unaware of the ASTM standards I developed a simpler, yet superior boil off test to the standard ASTM D2158 - 11 test summarized below.

"Significance and Use

Control over the residue content (required by Specification D1835) is of considerable importance in end-use applications of LPG. In liquid feed systems residues can lead to troublesome deposits and, in vapor withdrawal systems, residues that are carried over can foul regulating equipment. Those that remain will accumulate, can be corrosive, and will contaminate following product. Water, particularly if alkaline, can cause failure of regulating equipment and corrosion of metals.

1. Scope

1.1 This test method covers the determination of extraneous materials weathering above 38°C that are present in liquefied petroleum gases. The extraneous materials will generally be dissolved in the LPG, but may have phase-separated in some instances.

1.2 Liquefied petroleum gases that contain certain anti-icing additives can give erroneous results by this test method.

1.3 Although this test method has been used to verify cleanliness and lack of heavy contaminants in propane for many years, it might not be sensitive enough to protect some equipment from operational problems or increased maintenance. A more sensitive test, able to detect lower levels of dissolved contaminants, could be required for some applications.

1.4 WARNING Mercury has been designated by many regulatory agencies as a hazardous material that can cause central nervous system, kidney and liver damage. Mercury, or its vapor, may be hazardous to health and corrosive to materials. Caution should be taken when handling mercury and mercury containing products. See the applicable product Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for details and EPA’s websitehttp://www.epa.gov/mercury/faq.htmfor additional information. Users should be aware that selling mercury and/or mercury containing products into your state or country may be prohibited by law.

1.5 The values stated in SI units are to be regarded as standard. No other units of measurement are included in this standard.

1.6 This standard does not purport to address all of the safety concerns, if any, associated with its use. It is the responsibility of the user of this standard to establish appropriate safety and health practices and determine the applicability of regulatory limitations prior to use."

https://www.astm.org/Standards/D2158.htm

For your own personal safety, I would recommend looking into some small closed loop systems. It doesn't take much to ignite butane. Even if you haven't had an issue before, it only takes one series of events to cause serious damage.

The cost of small closed loop systems is dropping. You can use the recovery tank for those type of systems.

Removing a small amount of butane from an R600 tank to test it for purity

Removing a small amount of butane from an R600 tank to test it for purity

SkyHighLer said:

^ That's R-600 refrigerant grade butane, exactly what I'm saying is unacceptable for open extraction unless the tank you're going to use is first sample tested. Squirt a cups' worth into an open ziplock type plastic bag, let it boil off, and see/smell what you've got.

I've since tested and retested RHS gas, it's clean, though I wish they'd double check every huge bulk tank they get in with my test before repackaging it.

Click to expand...

I don't want to buy the specially rigged hose with a ball valve etc only to find out that the gas is junk.

Unfortunately, I couldn't be further from SoCal, so I will just have to get advice via this forum.

SO HERE is the question: If all I have is the tank of r600, its equipped with a internal liquid siphon tube, it has the 1/4" flare fitting and a green plastic "T" (the valve open/close) So, in order to remove some of the gas from the tank with nothing but the tank itself I will turn the tank upside down, the air will rise to the top, then turn the green "T" and open the valve this will release liquid butane straight from the flare fitting. I will fit a ziploc bag around the fitting to catch the liquid and allow it to dry and examine it, am I right?

^ If it has dip tube ("internal liquid siphon tube") you don't need to invert the tank.

Let the bag hang free during collection, close off most of the top of the bag, leaving a small opening for vapor to escape during the squirt.

Anything but a cutting torch.

I imagine placing the tank higher than the object you want to fill with butane would help.