CMEP Or Dual TR21's?

krunchbubble · Sep 29, 2016

Time to upgrade once again! :woohoo:

Bought a TR21 about 4 months ago and am happy, but I want to go faster...

Was thinking of buying a CMEP but then I saw a post today in a FB group about dual TR21's...

I figure why buy a CMEP for $2400, when I can grab another TR21 for around $750? My system is totally setup for running dual recovery pumps with small modifications...

Heard its way easier to maintenance and repair a TR, then a CMEP as well..

Figured I ask you guys for your opinions...

And no Grey Wolf, I cant afford your Vaporhawg....

Roji · Sep 29, 2016

We have been running dual trs21 set up for over a year with no problems. we feed them both to the same recovery tank via twin heat exchangers.

Gray Wolf · Sep 29, 2016

krunchbubble said:
Time to upgrade once again!

Bought a TR21 about 4 months ago and am happy, but I want to go faster...

Was thinking of buying a CMEP but then I saw a post today in a FB group about dual TR21's...

I figure why buy a CMEP for $2400, when I can grab another TR21 for around $750? My system is totally setup for running dual recovery pumps with small modifications...

Heard its way easier to maintenance and repair a TR, then a CMEP as well..

Figured I ask you guys for your opinions...

And no Grey Wolf, I cant afford your Vaporhawg....

Alas, the last lab I farmed our CMEP OL out to, didn't follow through with running it until it breaks, so I'm not sure about long term durability, but it worked well.

We've run dual Appions and Dual TR-21's on Mk IV's and V's with good success.

The TRS-21 definitely requires a good heat exchanger. We used 50' X 1/4" .049 SS tubing in an ice bath.

PS: I'm retired. My design, Pharmgold's VaporHawg is more for high volume application. It is about the same free air flow as eight TR-21's and would use less electricity and make less noise, but would clearly be overkill on a 12" pot.

Old Gold · Sep 29, 2016

TRS's need a hell of a lot of heat exchange for such unimpressive pumping ability. I would take a well-maintained CMEP-OL over dual TRS any day (and no pump, over anything)....do you operate a chiller or do you use dry ice to process?

My TRS eats as much, if not more, dry ice from a 36 ft 3/8" coil than does having dual solvent recovery tanks (50lb Mastercool) smothered in dry ice (in an igloo drink cooler) for recovery. And it doesn't recover any faster than those dual solvent tanks. The vacuum recovery/pull is theoretically endless as long as you have backup tanks to vacuum down too (or constant cooling capabilit).

I don't even want to know how much effort it'll take to cool two of those outputs. Roji has an enormous liquid CO2 tank, so he has more than the cooling capability.

I was able to leave my CMEP-OL alone for a recovery, and saw over 1/2lb per minute of butane recovery from a 12" x 12 pot into one 50lb mastercool tank sitting in mildly cold water left over from yesterday's ice blocks, and the output and exhaust never ran even hot to the touch. And the thing was set up outdoors under shade in the middle of 90-100°F weather. I got pretty nice burns a few times from merely brushing against the TRS-21 output, even with a dry ice bath immediately at the output.

CMEP-OL certainly requires some maintenance, but with that, I still have moderately high hopes for it.

krunchbubble · Sep 29, 2016

Gray Wolf said:
Alas, the last lab I farmed our CMEP OL out to, didn't follow through with running it until it breaks, so I'm not sure about long term durability, but it worked well.

We've run dual Appions and Dual TR-21's on Mk IV's and V's with good success.

The TRS-21 definitely requires a good heat exchanger. We used 50' X 1/4" .049 SS tubing in an ice bath.

PS: I'm retired. My design, Pharmgold's VaporHawg is more for high volume application. It is about the same free air flow as eight TR-21's and would use less electricity and make less noise, but would clearly be overkill on a 12" pot.

Old Gold said:
TRS's need a hell of a lot of heat exchange for such unimpressive pumping ability. I would take a well-maintained CMEP-OL over dual TRS any day (and no pump, over anything)....do you operate a chiller or do you use dry ice to process?

Greywolf - Already running 1/2" 50" coil for the TR. Thank GW..

Old Gold - Was going to run a chiller but after extensive research, decided to stay with DI and Alchy. Thank you for your input, have no idea which way to go...

Roji · Sep 29, 2016

Odd... We just run a trickling garden hose into a stock pot filled with water to cool our coils. Works great.

Old Gold · Sep 29, 2016

Roji said:
Odd... We just run a trickling garden hose into a stock pot filled with water to cool our coils. Works great.

I hope this is sarcasm, but I don't think it is...
Maybe my pump just sucks, but I thought it was all of em..
How hot is the immediate output on each of your pumps?

MrSpectre · Sep 29, 2016

You could also run a precoil on ice (as to not condense too much) to give the TRS a better chance at keeping the heat down.

Schmetty87 · Sep 30, 2016

Im debating on upgrading myself. I currently have a trs21 that is in dire need of a rebuild and fresh head and my current one is due for a good cleaning.

To get the trs21's both going proper, plus an additional coil and all the fitting an hoses i'm looking at around 500-600 which isnt bad but I know how fast it goes through dry ice and in a few months time it adds up. For the CMEP-OL im looking at around $2700 plus tax which is a huge $2000 difference but if the quality justifies the price its worth it in my eyes.

Im currently only running a mkiii with some mods and i know the reduced surface area in the 6x12 collection pot is currently a big factor in my high recovery times which is why i'm stepping up to a larger mkIV style unit in few months time.

With the upgrade in mind am i spinning my wheels to get my trs's fixed up and get the extra ancillary gear to use them or would it be pointless to spend my own personal funds on a pump like a CMEP-OL for my current system. The new unit will be financed by the boss man and with higher production rates in mind he might be willing to bypass the CMEP-OL altogether and just want to get the CMEP-6000 and have more extractors and columns.

Old Gold · Sep 30, 2016

Schmetty87 said:
Im currently only running a mkiii with some mods and i know the reduced surface area in the 6x12 collection pot is currently a big factor in my high recovery times which is why i'm stepping up to a larger mkIV style unit in few months time.

With the upgrade in mind am i spinning my wheels to get my trs's fixed up and get the extra ancillary gear to use them or would it be pointless to spend my own personal funds on a pump like a CMEP-OL for my current system. The new unit will be financed by the boss man and with higher production rates in mind he might be willing to bypass the CMEP-OL altogether and just want to get the CMEP-6000 and have more extractors and columns.

More surface area = faster evaporation. Your volume might have something to do with recovery rates.

And at that price, get yourself a VaporHawg or a pair of Haskels. Chunmu don't got yer back. Pharmgold actually might...

Gray Wolf · Sep 30, 2016

Schmetty87 said:
Im debating on upgrading myself. I currently have a trs21 that is in dire need of a rebuild and fresh head and my current one is due for a good cleaning.

To get the trs21's both going proper, plus an additional coil and all the fitting an hoses i'm looking at around 500-600 which isnt bad but I know how fast it goes through dry ice and in a few months time it adds up. For the CMEP-OL im looking at around $2700 plus tax which is a huge $2000 difference but if the quality justifies the price its worth it in my eyes.

Im currently only running a mkiii with some mods and i know the reduced surface area in the 6x12 collection pot is currently a big factor in my high recovery times which is why i'm stepping up to a larger mkIV style unit in few months time.

With the upgrade in mind am i spinning my wheels to get my trs's fixed up and get the extra ancillary gear to use them or would it be pointless to spend my own personal funds on a pump like a CMEP-OL for my current system. The new unit will be financed by the boss man and with higher production rates in mind he might be willing to bypass the CMEP-OL altogether and just want to get the CMEP-6000 and have more extractors and columns.

I suggest you compare the VaporHawg to the CMEP OL 6000. It was designed for LPG recovery, not refrigerant, so it puts out twice the output, at the same horsepower.

krunchbubble · Sep 30, 2016

Gray Wolf said:
Pharmgold's VaporHawg would clearly be overkill on a 12" pot.

Schmetty87 said:
6x12 collection pot

Gray Wolf said:
I suggest you compare the VaporHawg to the CMEP OL 6000. It was designed for LPG recovery, not refrigerant, so it puts out twice the output, at the same horsepower.

Seems like EVERY post you HAVE to plug your product, even if it goes against what you already said Grey Wolf...

SkyHighLer · Sep 30, 2016

^ Every steel vendor at Chalice was aware of the Vaporhog, and no one had a better idea.

Let me float this, the sooner the Vaporhog catches on, the sooner you'll get a much less expensive version from China via a big player like Across.

This isn't isn't ass kissing, it's just doing what works for the best interest of all in the long run.

Peace.....

krunchbubble · Sep 30, 2016

SkyHighLer said:
^ Every steel vendor at Chalice was aware of the Vaporhog, and no one had a better idea.

Let me float this, the sooner the Vaporhog catches on, the sooner you'll get a much less expensive version from China via a big player like Across.

This isn't isn't ass kissing, it's just doing what works for the best interest of all in the long run.

Peace.....

Dont think your picking up what im putting down...

Im saying im tired of the constant plugs for merchandise that is clearly not for the application or stated at the beginning of the thread that the product is not even in consideration...

Back to the subject at hand, Dual TR21's or A CMEP?

Old Gold · Sep 30, 2016

krunchbubble said:
Dont think your picking up what im putting down...

Im saying im tired of the constant plugs for merchandise that is clearly not for the application or stated at the beginning of the thread that the product is not even in consideration...

Back to the subject at hand, Dual TR21's or A CMEP?

You did in fact put the CMEP6000 up for consideration. We are telling yoi that for the same price, the VaporHawg seems the best on the market today, by far, let alone outstanding customer service (from the word of clients themselves).
You should know that the CMEP6000 is not so suitable for a 6" collection pot, so not sure why you're freaking out at GW for mentioning the V-word. The CMEP6000 is literally six CMEP-OL's.

To answer your question, I stand by what I said. If you like using copious amounts of ice or dry ice to cool recovery line, grab that TRS! I had very few issues with the CMEP-OL when properly maintained.

krunchbubble · Sep 30, 2016

Old Gold said:
You did in fact put the CMEP6000 up for consideration.

For some reason people like to put words in my mouth...

Ive never mentioned a CMEP6000 in my life, didnt know it even existed...

Old Gold · Sep 30, 2016

krunchbubble said:
For some reason people like to put words in my mouth...

Ive never mentioned a CMEP6000 in my life, didnt know it even existed...

It's funny you say that. I often feel the same, and I listen more than I speak haha.

Sorry. Just woke up, and didn't read back to the last page. My original reply - and Grays Wolf's, likewise - was directed towards Schmetty87. The conversation did hold relevance. Sorry it carried on so long. Back to the OP!

Roji · Sep 30, 2016

Old Gold said:
I hope this is sarcasm, but I don't think it is...
Maybe my pump just sucks, but I thought it was all of em..
How hot is the immediate output on each of your pumps?

not being sarcastic at all. I believe the temp of the liquid leaving the pump is around 100f.

edit: I do run 10' lines between the pumps and the heat exchangers. this most likely scrubs off a ton of heat load.

Old Gold · Sep 30, 2016

Roji said:
not being sarcastic at all. I believe the temp of the liquid leaving the pump is around 100f.

edit: I do run 10' lines between the pumps and the heat exchangers. this most likely scrubs off a ton of heat load.

I said "directly" at the output. My mistake, I have 5ft lines. Mine runs much hotter than yours. So I run passively.

Schmetty87 · Oct 1, 2016

I had a feeling I might hear vapor hawg and to be quite honest if I had the money at the time i would have bought that instead of my trs21's regardless of my extractor being the limiting factor.

The CMEP-6000 is newer to my knowledge and while its a beastly looking unit i have heard little to nothing about its actual performance and maintenance intervals whereas I'm almost positive i could get in touch with pharmgold and get every question answered no problems but until the boss man is ready to throw down that kind of money i dont want to bother them with questions.

Plug away as far as im concerned graywolf. The stuff you plug might not be the cheapest solution but its usually the best for people trying to get into this on any serious production level.

CMEP Or Dual TR21's?

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