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Is coco really maxing out hydroponic potential?

Zarezhu

Zarezhu

Member
Hey guys, this has recently been crossing my mind a lot lately

I've been a long term organic grower, mostly outdoors. I've pulled 4 indoor 100% coco harvests in the last year. I have a 4kw sealed bloom room that has most the bells and whistles.

I've finally dialed in coco as a hydroponic medium.

275 gallon res, RO water + calmag+, canna a+b, pk13/14 to 1.2-1.3EC @6.0-6.2ph, watered 5x a day. Sometimes cannazyme/drip clean/bloombastic.

I don't want to stick to soil grows, because the growth rate is just much slower. And I figure if I grow another 5 or 10 years, it'd be better to make the transition to hydroponic growing sooner than later. Each harvest should yield more than a soil harvest, and I theoretically should be able to get extra harvest in every once in a while because of the faster growth rate.

HOWEVER, I can't really tell a noticeable difference in bloom rate. Coco is obviously a faster veg/rooting medium opposed to soil, but I haven't noticed a huge difference in bloom time.
I have a room full of cookies/plat bubba/sour d, just starting week 8 bloom, and they look like they have a waaays to go still. I can take pics if anybody would like.

It's definitely not what I expected from "hydroponic" growing. Everythings healthy and chunky, and the buds are noticeably a brighter color than soil grown buds, but the CRAZY VIGOR doesn't seem completely obvious.

Is it not as vigorous as I'd expect, because coco isn't the best way to utilize a hydroponic system?

Or is it not as vigorous as I'd expect, because my expectations as a perfectionist are simply sky high, and I'm doing a damn good job already?

I'll take some pics for ya guys tonight

Here's a couple shots from my last harvest, had lots of large chunky 7g tops as well, didn't get around to taking too many pics last harvest though


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R

Ravenboy

Member
well coco isn't the best for ANY hydro system - what works for me might not work for you. there ISNT a best - way to subjective a question.

second question: its believable that you are in part correct, but the second part of the question we cant answer unless we know what kind of grower you are.

bloom rate not what you expected? looking at it from outside, as we are, we're thinking, well sure its the coco. or maybe its you. or perhaps its your ferts or the way you use them. or its your lights. or its your environment....

a lot of variables so its hard to help
 
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dansbuds

dansbuds

Retired from the workforce Bullshit
ICMag Donor
Veteran
coco/hydro is not going to speed up the bloom/harvest rate . it will give you more bud per gallon of medium , therefore upping your yields , but its not going to make it done any faster .
i think it vegges faster in coco that soil , but nothing is really going to change the flowering period . i've read lighting changes like 11/13 will speed up budset . but i have no idea if its true .
as a rule of thumb , soil is good for about an ounce of bud per gallon of medium , where coco is good for 3 or more ounces of bud per gallon of medium .
 
Zarezhu

Zarezhu

Member
Appreciate your insight. Let me somewhat rephrase:

What hydroponic method, if any, is superior to coco in VIGOR during bloom. My quality is already where I want it. I don't think I can produce significantly DANKIER weed. My potency/smell/bag appeal is exactly where I'd like it. I genuinely feel like my bud is very near perfect. It's always gone within weeks. The only thing I'd really like to improve, is the VIGOR. Which system, if any, takes in higher amounts of oxygen, drinks faster/can take more nutrients because it's a more vigorous/faster/more efficient way for the plant to bloom? Is there any hydroponic method that's OBVIOUSLY and SIGNIFICANTLY faster growing than coco?


Fungus gnats/cal/mag problems/salt buildup isn't a problem for me in coco. Maybe my first or second round, but now that I've dialed it in, its just an easy hydroponic medium for me to utilize. I feel like there's a method that I can improve to now. To get even faster growing/vigorous and healthy plants.

I'm VERY happy growing in coco! It was a fairly easy transition from soil. I could very easily grow in coco for another 10 years and produce TOP shelf bud each and every harvest, consistently, with ease.

The only thing that keeps bugging me, in the back of my brain, is the need to IMPROVE.

Is there anything definitively a superior hydroponic medium when it comes to yield/growth rate?

I know, that as of today, I could efficiently and easily run a 20kw room, grown in coco, and get great results. And so far, this is the main goal of my life right now.

I just dont want to set up a 20 light room for coco, when there's a superior method timewise/yieldwise, it would be inefficient!

--------------------------------------------------------------

I know you want to look into my grow practices/habits, but this thread isnt really about these things. It's to figure out, with every other aspect of the room being the same: What is the best hydroponic method for providing roots with maximum oxygen and nutrients, for faster budding and tippity top shelf flowers.





Just for reference though, I use brand eye hortilux bulbs for 2 bloom cycles and scrap em. Co2 consistntly between 800-1000. Temps from 76-80, humidity 70% until mid bloom, and I'll cycle it down to 40% as they finish. Tons of oscillating fans. Using Canna nutes, they work GREAT for me.

None of that is really relevant to one hydroponic method being superior to another hydroponic method.
 
Zarezhu

Zarezhu

Member
@dans- hey man! Nice to see you here.

I've heard about the changing of photoperiod quickening the bloom cycle too. Never had the balls to try it though lol.

I also know certain PGRs will make you have a quicker (1week) finish, and there are some claims to certain nutes (most certainly snake oils) that are supposed to take a week off finish time as well. These are not the solutions I'm looking for.


I guess I'm pretty happy with the bloom rate I already have. My bud now is definitely superior to any soil grown bud I've had. I just don't know about any of the other hydro systems, or if theres anything worth switching to.

I'm pretty content running coco right now :]
Only thing I'm missing is surefire genetics. This is my first round with sour D, and I may just do a sour d monocrop next cycle. Growing incredibly well. Only thing that puts me off it, is the 11-12 week bloom cycle.




I guess I've been under the false impression that hydroponic plants mature faster than soil grown plants. I wanted to shave a few days off the flower time. I guess I just need to practice patience.
 
dansbuds

dansbuds

Retired from the workforce Bullshit
ICMag Donor
Veteran
i've been running coco for 5 years now with exceptional results ! I tried flood & drain with hydroton once just to see & i'm right back to coco because of the ease of growing in it . you can't get a much simpler & proven way of growing great bud consistantly !!!
genetic will come in time ! grab some good seeds & do some pheno hunting . every great strain came from a seed at one time !
 
Zarezhu

Zarezhu

Member
Thanks man, good advice. Coco is a great medium, I love it. So glad I made the switch from soil. Sure I fucked up a little, but now that I'm dialed, I couldnt ever imagine going back to soil.

I just always had that question lingering in the back of my mind; is there a better method.

If we wanna stay competitive in this industry for decades, we always have to be willing to adapt and improve.
 
Zarezhu

Zarezhu

Member
Im in the same boat. Hot summers. I have an aquarium heater for the winter, but those are way more affordable than chillers.

Right now, I'm planning on upgrading my 1000s to the gavita 750s. More PAR light froma 750 than from the 1000s I'm currently using. About $1600 for the 4 new gavita units though. Less often bulb replacement though, and I can add another light to improve my veg room with the extra AC load.



I'll check out their threads when I get back tonight/tmorrow! Thanks for the tip

Bout to head out and peep at the ladies. I'll shoot some pix tonight for ya guys
 
dansbuds

dansbuds

Retired from the workforce Bullshit
ICMag Donor
Veteran
as far as genetics , check out the Darlins net thread & the gorilla bubble threads & let me know if they peek your interest . if they do i can see to it that you get some seeds to run out & pheno hunt with . :tiphat:
 
mojave green

mojave green

rockin in the free world
Veteran
Medium (coco, clay pebbles, etc) takes up root space and is labor intensive. I don't like it! Only use it in veg. Go naked in flower!
picture.php
 
Lester Beans

Lester Beans

Frequent Flyer
Veteran
One thing that caught my attention is that you are giving water 5 times a day. I think this would be too much. I normally water twice a day depending on season. It is possible to over water coco.

Hydro is easy. It will not decrease bloom time. That is completely genetic and different for each strain. It will optimize growth and once dialed yield more.

Vibes

:tiphat:
 
R

Ravenboy

Member
Lester Beans said:
One thing that caught my attention is that you are giving water 5 times a day. I think this would be too much. I normally water twice a day depending on season. It is possible to over water coco.

Hydro is easy. It will not decrease bloom time. That is completely genetic and different for each strain. It will optimize growth and once dialed yield more.

Vibes

:tiphat:
Click to expand...

i water 1.6 liters into 10 liters of coco/perlite 18 times a day. never gets overwatered, once the plant has decent roots.

thats my experience

take a look at any of the PPK threads, and also the Big tree coco thread. LOTS more than twice a day!
 
R

Ravenboy

Member
mojave green said:
Medium (coco, clay pebbles, etc) takes up root space and is labor intensive. I don't like it! Only use it in veg. Go naked in flower!
View Image
Click to expand...

ahhhh but other features of coco active hydro makes it PERFECT for me


I like using it in PPKs, i don't need a chiller.

and the power where i live might go ou. top feeding/recirculating coco means i can hand water if a pump fails until i get around to getting a new one.

I don't know ANYONE doing DWC in buenos aires unless they have a generator.

so whats best for one grower isn't best for another.
 
R

Ravenboy

Member
Zarezhu said:
Appreciate your insight. Let me somewhat rephrase:

What hydroponic method, if any, is superior to coco in VIGOR during bloom. My quality is already where I want it. I don't think I can produce significantly DANKIER weed. My potency/smell/bag appeal is exactly where I'd like it. I genuinely feel like my bud is very near perfect. It's always gone within weeks. The only thing I'd really like to improve, is the VIGOR. Which system, if any, takes in higher amounts of oxygen, drinks faster/can take more nutrients because it's a more vigorous/faster/more efficient way for the plant to bloom? Is there any hydroponic method that's OBVIOUSLY and SIGNIFICANTLY faster growing than coco?


Fungus gnats/cal/mag problems/salt buildup isn't a problem for me in coco. Maybe my first or second round, but now that I've dialed it in, its just an easy hydroponic medium for me to utilize. I feel like there's a method that I can improve to now. To get even faster growing/vigorous and healthy plants.

I'm VERY happy growing in coco! It was a fairly easy transition from soil. I could very easily grow in coco for another 10 years and produce TOP shelf bud each and every harvest, consistently, with ease.

The only thing that keeps bugging me, in the back of my brain, is the need to IMPROVE.

Is there anything definitively a superior hydroponic medium when it comes to yield/growth rate?

I know, that as of today, I could efficiently and easily run a 20kw room, grown in coco, and get great results. And so far, this is the main goal of my life right now.

I just dont want to set up a 20 light room for coco, when there's a superior method timewise/yieldwise, it would be inefficient!

--------------------------------------------------------------

I know you want to look into my grow practices/habits, but this thread isnt really about these things. It's to figure out, with every other aspect of the room being the same: What is the best hydroponic method for providing roots with maximum oxygen and nutrients, for faster budding and tippity top shelf flowers.





Just for reference though, I use brand eye hortilux bulbs for 2 bloom cycles and scrap em. Co2 consistntly between 800-1000. Temps from 76-80, humidity 70% until mid bloom, and I'll cycle it down to 40% as they finish. Tons of oscillating fans. Using Canna nutes, they work GREAT for me.

None of that is really relevant to one hydroponic method being superior to another hydroponic method.
Click to expand...

faster than coco:
DWC, however coco done right comes very very close, i am hearing.

however many do coco "wrong" IMO. I was doing coco/perlite hand watered hempies, but since I switched to PPKs, the growth rate is staggering (first grow, so no yield numbers yet)

and i am working a lit less now too. (recirculating)

IMO, coco isn't 'unleashed' until you really feed it several times a day to oxygenate the root zone..... then growth explodes
 
T

TreehouseJ

From what I can gather, coco really is equally effective as dwc, and a bit more stealthy, versatile, and fool proof, seeing as how your pots don't need to be hooked up to noisy air pumps 24/7 and costly chillers that run a ton of electricity. A lot of guys running a ton of lights seem to be doing coco, and a lot of guys only running a few lights seem to opt for dwc.

The best weed I have ever seen in or out of the continental USA (ca, co, mi, fl, ny, mo, ar, az, nv, il, wi, ok, tx, etc etc etc) has consistently came out of 5 gallon dwc buckets using simple 3 part gh. So I've always grown dwc. Under 4k watts, I would still try and do dwc, but that's just me.

Mastering coco does seem like it would save a bit of time and offer more insurance, while putting up yields = or > any other hydroponic system per square foot of canopy space. If you already have it on lock, I wouldn't abandon it. I think its DJM who has a 12k 27 lb coco thread on here that makes me want to make the switch every time I come across it.

Also, I believe he waters 6x a day. He accomplishes this by undersizing his pots and not allowing his medium to dry, or somethin'.
 
R

Ravenboy

Member
mojave green said:
I might add my DWC is chiller less!
:biggrin:
Click to expand...

nice. for me its not really the chiller its being failsafe, because of where i live.

i could go away for four days, have a pump fail on day two, and come home to mostly healthy plants, hand water while i search for a new pump, hook it in and party on.

I LIKE DWC, but i just cant do it here. and now that i am hooked on coco, i dunno
 
T

TreehouseJ

mojave green said:
I might add my DWC is chiller less!
:biggrin:
Click to expand...

My chiller is collecting dust in the attic. I keep my dwc buckets submerged in ice water. RDWC was giving me sh*t in my environment so my $500 chiller had to go to the graveyard. :(
 
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