[Huckster79]

Is thete a 101 thread on this topic. Sounds very intiguing but felt like a 4th grader in algebra class... even starting at first page

[slownickel]

Huck,

Go watch that video posted in the very beginning of this thread on youtube and then go look at the soil analysis posted on this page

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread....326705&page=67

We are talking about the bases in the soil, the elements Ca, Mg, K, Mg and H. Sometimes some of the metals are included, but we will just stick to these during the conversation.

A soil has the ability to hold only so many of these bases, that capacity is known as the cation exchange capacity..... within those bases, we are discussing how much of each one.

Then go download the analysis posted by lightweight on this page https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread....89990&page=200

There you will see an amazing soil in Maui.

Many believe in going to only 68% Ca, some of us talk about 85% Ca. Watch the video a couple of times.

Ask questions, no problem.

[slownickel]

I want to discuss irrigation more, but maybe we should make a different thread.

[slownickel]

Originally Posted by Top_shelf_farms

View Image
You can see the one branch in the middle isn't doing it as much. I was only gone for 3 days for it to start happening....

Top,

That is a tough call, given those are monsters, they will eat like monsters. No clue of what you have been up to.

I would say getting all that energy up to the top of the plant is going to be a tough order to fill everything out. Calcium comes to mind, so does phosphorus.

Give us a quick run through of what you have been up to?

[theJointedOne]

Slow- hey man, sorry if this is off topic but I was curious your thoughts on manure.

I got a neighbor who was telling me I should top dress with horse manure..

Thoughts?

Not trying to derail the thread, you can pm me if that's easier.

[slownickel]

Top dressing with manure, never done it in cannabis, which is a C3 plant. C4 plants like citrus, love fresh manure, but in small quantities.

It isn't so much the nutrient value that makes manure topdressing beneficial, it is the metabolites of the bacteria that break down the manure that makes manure so valuable.

Those metabolites allow the plant to become much more resistant to disease and insects.

Also, the ammonia in fresh manure helps to get manganese into the plant VS nitrates, which block the uptake of manganese. This is why so many organic growers have a big problem with manganese, they all try to use compost.

Be real careful, manures are very hot and many are full of salts. If you have enough calcium, a light sprinkling several times over the season can be pretty amazing.

In my lime trees, we mix a whole sack (about 75 LBS) into a 60x60x80 cm hole thoroughly mixed with the soil and plant into that after one heavy irrigation. The trees love it and grow so much faster compared to compost.

[Pangea]

Hi slownickel, most growers are using a heavy peat moss based mix, usually peat, perlite, vermiculite, compost/minerals. An issue ive run into that ive shared in the past is the labs estimating cec. Here's a previous post:

Quote:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/udextension...2/10/CHAP9.pdf

https://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/nurs...CN%20ratio.PDF

What kind of CEC methods are the labs using?
Make sure to specify that you are soil is high in peat moss and to request an effective CEC using a barium solution. I wouldnt be surprised if they charge more.

A heavy peat based mix should or could be in the 100 - 200 range from what Ive read, is this not correct or what are your thoughts?

https://www.extension.uidaho.edu/nur...CN%20ratio.PDF


edit fixed links.

[theJointedOne]

Thanks for the information

[slownickel]

Originally Posted by Pangea

Hi slownickel, most growers are using a heavy peat moss based mix, usually peat, perlite, vermiculite, compost/minerals. An issue ive run into that ive shared in the past is the labs estimating cec. Here's a previous post:



A heavy peat based mix should or could be in the 100 - 200 range from what Ive read, is this not correct or what are your thoughts?

https://www.extension.uidaho.edu/nurs...CN%20ratio.PDF


edit fixed links.

Sure seems like one of those professors that is trying to recreate the wheel.

We have a bunch of guys running M3 who have now started running M3 and AA@8.2. The correlation between growth and their base distributions is actually pretty incredible. All those with good Ca levels are doing amazing. Those that have high Mg, and more Na than K, are all responding to fixing what looks to be missing, Ca.

It is imperative that folks do their own trials.

Prior, due to the OVER not under estimation as the profe would tell us, everyone thought they were drowning in Calcium. They were not. Calcium was way over estimated.

Once folks add compost, worm castings and a bunch of woo woo juice to their mediums, these mediums take on interesting chemistries all their own.

If there is more to the picture than we are seeing in these current methods and we can see clearly what happens when we start dialing things in with what we have, I am not sure what I can get from what this profe is preaching. If there is so much more CEC, what does that mean to Ca? K? Mg? Na? H?? Metals???

I couldn't open that first article. Could you send me the whole URL?

Profe would have to show me some serious data to catch my ear.

[Tonygreen]

Well I did a read through, the video really helped give me the foundation of things to think about.

I seem to fall into the category of those who may be chasing their tail.
Planning a winter indoor grow. Here is the soil "recipe"... with a ph of 7.4 out of the tap..
I have experienced many of the things you have talked about. So slowly the picture becomes more clear... I find myself chasing calcium by foliar feeding cal mag.
Generally growing in 2-3 cubic foot containers and vegging 30-40 days... I never compost this mix just plant straight into it. I also have never phed my water. After my first complete fail in many years my last run I finally bought a meter. I had been using the same soil recycling it for a couple years and dumping tons of epsoms on to combat what I thought were deficiencies and finally switching to salt fertlizers, which i now understand made everything worse.. Finally hit rock bottom and the collapsed from various aspects of my mismanagement. All the while my yields slowly shrank. In the beginning the mix performed good it seemed... I guess that first and 2nd runs usually went ok because I veg so long and some calcium and potassium starts to become available when flower starts, subsequent runs start falling apart more and more slowly over time.

18 cubic feet of bagged store bought soil: Tap ph 7.4

9 pounds dolomite lime
9 pounds bone meal
3 pounds blood meal
4 pounds kelp meal
90 pounds EWC
3 cubic feet of perlite

As you can see I have been doing just what you described...

Since I don't have a grow going atm and tons of time on my hands I am off to rethink my life... And do alot of reading... Wow. What an eye opener. I don't even know where to begin ha. I guess a soil test of my bagged dirt before amending anything...

Thanks slow.