What would this be called? Chocolate Thai F4 x Chemical Thai F1

So, I happen to have a Chocolate Thai (F4) Female and a Chemical Thai Male (F1) (Chem's Sister x Thai).

Well, they were in the same tent together, and made seeds. What the heck would these be called? It's a BX of some sort, and an F1 of some sort, but coming from an F4?

What should I expect regarding stability and fairly uniform phenos/genos? Is this just an F1?

Thanks!
HM

Wouldn't exactly call that a bx. Two separate lines although both contain Thai. More like a f1.

Call it "All Thai'd Up"

I like that one OranguTrump.

unrelated lines x unrelated lines = f1 hybrid.

Yeah right.
F1 needs true breeding parents in order to meet the expected pheno distribution of an F1 cross.
This one sounds like a chuk'd chem chai

Technically it would also be a "polyhybrid" I believe.

Koondense said:

Yeah right.
F1 needs true breeding parents in order to meet the expected pheno distribution of an F1 cross.
This one sounds like a chuk'd chem chai

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i don't think you know what f1 means.

PoweredByLove said:

i don't think you know what f1 means.

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I believe i know what is an F1 generation and what are the expectations of the filial.
Your view is too simplistic, it only says you need two different lines, but then the new generation is not necessarily stable like in a true F1.
Polyhybrid is the best definition in this case.
Check the facts with google.

PoweredByLove said:

i don't think you know what f1 means.

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F1 does need two true breeding parents to fully qualify as an f1 How ever in a lot of cases strains are bottleneck so much that they can pass f1 style crosses more so when crosses to land race cultivar
A line bred Spanish skunk strain to Thai would be more or less f1

it doesn't matter where the parents came from. if you cross 2 plants that are not siblings. you get an F1 cross. its the FIRST CROSSING OF THOSE 2 GENES. it's all it means. i dunno what all this extra shit is you're trying to add...but like i said ...clearly you do not understand.

PoweredByLove said:

it doesn't matter where the parents came from. if you cross 2 plants that are not siblings. you get an F1 cross. its the FIRST CROSSING OF THOSE 2 GENES. it's all it means. i dunno what all this extra shit is you're trying to add...but like i said ...clearly you do not understand.

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Yes that's true the trouble is most strains are related now days , the parents have to be pure breeding as world wide strains share genetics ,
That's why it's said and is the same as what you are saying to none related strains crossed together make an f1 no one disputes this , what is in dispute is what people consider to be a none related strain .

Koondense said:

I believe i know what is an F1 generation and what are the expectations of the filial.
Your view is too simplistic, it only says you need two different lines, but then the new generation is not necessarily stable like in a true F1.
Polyhybrid is the best definition in this case.
Check the facts with google.

Click to expand...

was talking to this guy. sry.

You got two same answers/replys so probably there's some reason behind it.
Thing is if you buy a pack of F1 seeds you would expect a uniform progeny, but only if the parents are true breeding. If they're not, the progeny will be all sorts of mixed phenos with traits from more distant ancestors.
F1 x F1 is not considered an F1. I hope you understand that because it's not worth arguing over basic stuff, or semantics.

go get a goddamn book, you can't just change definitions to suit you.

Definition: The F1 (first filial) generation is the hybrid offspring produced in the cross pollination of P generation plants.

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Let Me Fucking Google that for You

pick a link any link they all say the same thing.

when you take 2 parents that aren't siblings and mate them the result is an F1 hybrid. it's called a HYBRID because it's a HYBRID OF THE 2 PARENTS.

in case you don't know what hybrid means...

a thing made by combining two different elements; a mixture.

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i await your scorn.

PBL,
real plant breeders, the world over, would tend to disagree with your simplistic view of what an F1 is.

That said, why dont you pick up a legit book on breeding and take your own advice.

Koondense is NOT wrong.

Start with the book PRINCIPLES OF PLANT GENETICS and BREEDING.
Once you've read that book, progress to SELECTION METHODS IN PLANT BREEDING.
If neither of these books interests you, you might consider keeping your ignorance from cluttering the boards.

wowza....dot.EDU...not legit science on ICMAG...duly noted...anyway...i'm out before i'm accused of being a troublemaker for spreading the goddamn TRUTH.

Hey pbl,
No need to get pissed if people don't agree with your thoughts. As you said an F1 is basically the first fillial of two different parents, but this definition does not explain what one can expect from this fillial. If the true breeding parents baffle you, go check Mendel's work and see why we need to take true breeding parents in account for better explanations on the fillial expression. A simple wiki article on F1 hybrids explains it all, just please read more than just the first few lines to get what we're talking about.

i don't need you to agree with my thoughts. i just need you to acknowledge that F1 simply means the offspring of a crossing.

all that other stuff you are talking about gene expressions and phenotype has nothing to do with the GENOTYPE which is what F generations are referring to.

also that definition does explain what you can expect. that's the whole point of using mendel and punnet and naming offspring with F's and numbers.

F1 is 50% of the genes in one parent and 50% of the genes in another.

if one parent is a poly hybrid and the other is too and the children come out with 20 different phenotypes....doesn't change the fact that that was an F1 offspring of the original mating.

you guys are confused. i'm just trying to help you out. i got all my knowledge from reading books. any book you pick up about biology has the same information i just gave you with regards to F-numbering and how it relates to generations.

if you take 2 random plants that you don't know which may or may not be related...guess what? it's stil an F1. because you don't have the parents...so these ARE the parents for your cross.


same as if you buy some seeds from a guy on the internet and pop them. if both the seeds came from the same pack then they're F1's(or your P1's since this is where YOU ARE starting) and crossing them will make an F2.

if the guy who sold them to you tells you they're F5 and you cross them then it's an F6 you have from the crossing(since you're just continuing his work). if you however have 2 plants from 2 different packs and one is the F5 the guy sold you and say the other is an F1... the resulting cross is still AN F1 BECAUSE THEY AREN'T SIBLINGS.

what you seem to be thinking about is an IBL which has been bred down and stabilized for a certain trait. if you cross that with another plant stabilized for another trait you will get another F1...but the PHENOTYPES YOU'RE EXPECTING to see from a 1:1 crossing will be there. whereas with unknown seeds (polyhybrids) the phenotypes will be all over the place. since you know... they are not stabilized and inbred for any specific traits yet...just pollen chucks.

here this might help your understanding.
http://sctritonscience.com/Wilson/biology_punnett_squares.htm