[GoatCheese]

Problem isn't always terminology. Big problem is that many growers take word-to-word what breeders claim, and many times these people are clueless or don't care enough.

Many people also grow a small batch of seeds, maybe a pack of 10 seeds, and when they get only BLD types, they make "educated claims" that X18 is close to 100% a BLD-line.

Some people buy a 10 pack of seeds and all turn out to be males! This happens from time to time, right? Meaning, you can't judge a line after growing only few seeds, and maybe some f2's you made. Cause if you make f2 seeds with one BLD-male and one BLD-females, then the offspring will of course show more BLD-traits.
..as it is with Reserva Privada's X18 = it's inbread more to the BLD-side of X18.

You also have to remember, that The spanish boys and DNA grew only saw few X18 seeds growing back then, and then judged the line based on these few plants they say
..and now many of you repeat their views as the "truth".

Originally Posted by Kalbhairav

Point being is that the diversity of genetics and traits in this area outweighs our terrible categorising system.

Sure. But also, it isn't a landrace, so people only ASSUME this is how the genetics grew naturally in Pakistan
..but the fact remains; the seeds were collected from paki import hash in USA, meaning the genetics were handled by farmers in Pakistan.
This means X18 can be a NLD-WLD hybrid, created by farmers for hash making.
The proper short BLD- types of X18 are so far apart from the stretchy NLD leaning types, that i'm strugling to believe they grow naturally in the same areas. Meaning, to me it seems humans brought these BLD and NLD types together.

Originally Posted by Kalbhairav

Maybe you could call some genotypes 'stretch Indica's but it has no tropical, equatorial traits in flower structure.

Well there is a huge difference in bud/cola formation with my NLD-leaning X18 male from Tom Hill, and the Reserva X18 BLD-male i flowered. Most proper mostly BLD-types of X18 don't stretch that much in bloom but my TH X18 male stretched much more than many indoor sativa-hybrids, say Mandala Seeds' Satori
Here's few pics of the plants i grew a while ago.

Little stretch BLD-type Reserva Privada X18 male around 2-3 weeks of bloom.

Huge stretch NLD leaning TH X18 male






Huge stretch NLD leaning TH X18 male around 2 - 3 weeks of bloom.






Little stretch TH X18 female around 3 weeks of bloom.



These tall NLD-leaning types aren't that rare in TH line, thou 60-70% seem to be shorter BLD-types. Even Raco's x18 cut is clearly a hybrid, quite abit more leggy than the proper BLD X18s, like that mine on the last pic above.

But i start to repeat myself with this thing. If some of you wanna categorize X18 as mostly BLD-type because breeders who saw few plants said so, go ahead.
Fact is that it's a BLD/NLD hybrid and many plants share alot of these traits. If i say X18 is around 70% BLD, then of course the rest is more NLD leaning traits, and some NLD-expressions are very much leaning on that side, like my TH X18 male.



Well, let's wait for the X18 DNA results to be uploaded on Phylos



Peace

[MJPassion]

Originally Posted by Kalbhairav

The problem here is with definition. Indica and Sativa are outmoded definitions in the cannabis world. This is why some are using the terms wide leaf drug (WLD) and narrow leaf drug (NLD) to describe appearance. If you travel throughout Nepal and the foothills of the Himalayas you'll find all types of expressions - these range from tall lanky thin leaved plants, squat wide leafed plants, tall lanky wide leafed plants and squat thin leafed plants. Point being is that the diversity of genetics and traits in this area outweighs our terrible categorising system.

If you travel the Himalayas you'll find that farmers cannabis plots can look very much different even in the next valley to each other.

If the plots are selectively bred then you're going to get more plants that are going to look similar.

Tom's x18 for sure is predominantly WLD. The seed that started the gene pool may or may not of been selected for generations in Pakistan before they got to the US. Also, I think Tom said that the 'Scientist' also removed traits that would negatively impact on the gene pool. Other than this it's an OP..

All my x18 were squat wide leaved Afghanica type structure until I grew cuts indoors. The nodes then gathered space between them. It isn't 'Sativa' by any stretch of the imagination in my eyes. Maybe you could call some genotypes 'stretch Indica's but it has no tropical, equatorial traits in flower structure.

Just my 2 cents

I'd like to expand on this & mention that the term SATIVA is Latin & simply means "CULTIVATED.

What are the differences between TH-X18 & ACE/CBG PCK?
I was under the impression that TH X18 was a worked PCK but I'm learning differently now.

[acespicoli]

American Journal of Botany
Says there are like 7 distinct types i dunno?
https://www. amjbot.org/content/91/6/966.long (copy paste hotlink disabled)
Tom Hill paki blue I still want it dont care what it is hehe
You guys make some valid points !

[acespicoli]

https:// galaxy.phylosbioscience.com/ (copy paste hotlink disabled)
There are estimated to be 6 subgroups of cannabis genetic variation in the Phylos Galaxy.

impressive...

[Mustafunk]

Broad Leaf Drug types and hashplants have nothing to do with how much they stretch or how "sativa" they look... they are simply landraces that evolved for hash making.

Initially the best hash from Chinese Turkestan or Uzbekistan used to be made from more "sativish" looking plants, but later the farmers started hybridizing those old "sativa" hashplants with the faster and more producing Broad Leaf types we all know have in mind.

Variation is common in any landrace cultivar... that's the true definition of landrace, a population of plants with a huge genetic variation.

Peace.

[GoatCheese]

So, a tall NLD "valley cannabis" naturally grows in the same area as minimally streching BLD-type?
Can you explain the evolution behind this? And i know that you know there is a natural reason (evolution) why some strains are tall NLD and some short BLD, right. It has alot to do with the enviroment.

According to Victor Schauberger, Pine trees, when grown in an unnaturally open area, start growing branches on their trunks to protect the fluids in them from Sun's heat. Imo, a short and leafy BLD-cannabis looks the way it does for similar reasons, to use water more efficiently and to give shade for it's own stems and footprint.
..tall NLD-types naturally grow in moist valleys and so do not have to fight for moisture with these methods.
..but sure, there are other factors as well.

Not starting an argument, but you only have a"theory" about a landrace, while the fact remains that the original X18-seeds were found in imported hash in USA. To call those seeds a "landrace" is bit of a strech, imo and only a theory.

If X18-strain would have been collected locally, i'd give your views more thought, but you keep calling X18 a "landrace" thou you have no way of knowing if it is an actual lanrdace or a hash-cultivar created By a farmer. Understand?

So unless you can prove X18 is an actual landrace, there is no debate here, at least i'm not that interested in having one.


My thoughts about X18 comes from growing them and smoking them, from smoking Manali charas and from looking at selection-pictures of X18 and from pics and info abou Manalis, while you keep repeating the term "landrace" withut even really knowing if X18 is an actual landrace, and i personally think it's not. I think it's was created By a paki-farmer.


But you have now few times read about my views and i have seen yours. Unless this is all there is to this, there is no point continiung this much further.


X18-samples for the DNA Project have landed @ Sam Skunkman & Crew, so in few months we might get to check from Phylos Galaxy what genetics these X18s had in them.



Peace

[GoatCheese]

Originally Posted by Mustafunk

Broad Leaf Drug types and hashplants have nothing to do with how much they stretch or how "sativa" they look... they are simply landraces that evolved for hash making.

Initially the best hash from Chinese Turkestan or Uzbekistan used to be made from more "sativish" looking plants, but later the farmers started hybridizing those old "sativa" hashplants with the faster and more producing Broad Leaf types we all know have in mind.

Variation is common in any landrace cultivar... that's the true definition of landrace, a population of plants with a huge genetic variation.

Peace.

It gets abit confusing when you at a point talk about "landraces" and then in another basically about "landrace varieties as hash making cultivars".

I stated that X18 was a hash-cultivar, man made for hash production and you started arguing that view, calling X18 a landrace
..but now you start talking about"landrace hash-cultivar hybrids" or what ever!!??

Cannabis existed before man made hashish out of it. The chicken & egg-thing.
To me landrace is a nature's product but a hash-cultivar has been altered by man; possibly hybridized as you state yourself.

Ofcource "landraces" are used in hash-cultivars ...space aliens didn't bring those seeds to farmers.

Sorry for the lip, but try to make a real argument. You can't have two view points in the same argument, esp. when i basically already claimed the other one ( = X18 is a hash-cultivar, not a true landrace)

Peace, bro..
-
-

Dry sifting ,hand pressing and purifying hashish in Afganistan 1970
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6ZY9cjVjmM

Starting @ around 10:45 you see very tiny plants being gathered for hash making.
..wonder if those are Rudi-hybrids or pure ruderalis

[NasaTV]

[frostqueen]

Originally Posted by NasaTV

View Image

Just curious: where'd you get these seeds? I got the last few packs from SB a few months ago.

I've tried 3 packs now and used some gibb witchecrafte, but having no luck with germing mine. I have 1 pack left.

Mainly wondering if there's another source who preserved them a bit better.

[GoatCheese]

Originally Posted by frostqueen

Just curious: where'd you get these seeds? I got the last few packs from SB a few months ago.

I've tried 3 packs now and used some gibb witchecrafte, but having no luck with germing mine. I have 1 pack left.

Mainly wondering if there's another source who preserved them a bit better.

Jumping in..
The Tom Hill X18s Chimera's "breeders retail" (..or what was it called) seem to be germinating well. There's a germ test-thread on Chimera's helpdesk about these.


Think i read the TH X18 stock is small-ish (iirc) so get them while you can