[need4weed]

Does anyone know what the outcome of seeds that are produced by a male that throws late pistils ?

Will it produce male only seeds? A bit like the opposite to feminising

I have seeds that were produced by a male plant that when deliberately stressed it produced pistils and subsequently pollenated itself

[Dutch Quality]

I had a male which did the same, but it did not set seed.
I hope anybody here has the answer!

[amanda88]

you are correct, of the herming process the most useless is the male herm,

that will make male only seeds of which most will be blanks...

but not all

best to trash ...imo

cheers

[Tonygreen]

If you punnet square a male x male selfing you will see 25% XY 25% YY and 25% XX.

[Elmer Bud]

G`day Amanda , Tony

The male herm is female expressing as a male ...
The most extreme degree of hermaphrodite .

I thought you were a breeder Tony ?
You don`t know about senghbush herm scale ?

DJ wrote he used herm males in the breeding of Blue berry so ...

Thanks for sharin

EB .

[Tonygreen]

My comment was directed at a selfing scheme that assumes a "true" dioecious male... However in cannabis we see sex is not so easily defined by mere x and y .

I don't label myself a breeder I think and I care less what anyone calls me ha!

I only followed DJ enough to find out he doesn't know or use much math, a talented nose perhaps but I doubt he and I agree on many things. His knowledge of science based genetics is limited which does not peak my interest particularly.

I understand mans need to classify things but I don't have much value for someone elses quantification of degrees of hermaphrodism on monocecious hemp, I have my own scale based on my own real life experiences in cannabis, not so interested in monoceious hemp ha!

How much info can you gain from a classification like that? sengbusch HEMP classification based on percentages of male/female flowers. If I a type 2 x a type 1 will it tell me what ratio of plants will have 10% male flowers?

Most Cannabis plants are dioecious, meaning they have imperfect (male or female) flowers on separate plants. What we growers commonly refer to as a hermaphrodite, is actually called a monoecious plant- male flowers on a female plant- both sexes of imperfect flower on the same individual. A TRUE hermaphroditic flower is a single flower bearing both male and female organs; a perfect flower. This true hermaphrodite is considerably less common in Cannabis plants than monoecious individuals.

Interesting stuff for sure.

[MJPassion]

^^^preach to the choir much?

Originally Posted by MJPassion

^^^preach to the choir much?

i kinda liked it , i don't read too many long posts ,hahaha

[Time Bomb]

Originally Posted by Killing time

Breeders of today if we speak about those guys whose strains are mostly based off existing elite clones and so on. That's just amateur pollen chucking like we all do at our homes. Of course some guys have more skills and great talent for that than others, or more contacts/chances to source better genetics and cuts, or more resources and opportunities to make bigger selections, or more knowledge and tools to do that in the most professional possible way, but that's still far from real plant breeding. Any of the amateur and humble guys from the 90s dutch or swiss scene worked with much higher numbers back then and were closer to the breeder figure than most new school "breeders".

But it's not always about the numbers only but about the goals and criteria. There are small underground seedbanks releasing new strains after years of work. Maybe they can't grow 1,000s or even 100s in one time, but they invest years after years improving their strains until they get what they are looking for. At least that's something, not simply getting new elites or hyped strains each season and just putting another reversed elite or a decent looking male (of course one that wasn't thoroughly progeny-tested either) over all those clone-onlys. Maybe backcrossing a few times on the cut again and that's it, but WTF? Anyone can do that, no big deal, right? No breeding either. Just the damn trend of getting a clone elite and making a seed line off it by bakcrossing any other trendy strain. Or simply having the hope that elite x elite will result in nice strains and most growers will be happy, so why bothering much? lol

Like Chaos said, most botanists or plant breeders will definitely laugh at the canna-breeders and I can understand why. Real plant breeders create brand new varieties that are:

1 .homogeneus
2. distinctive
3. recognizable by its characteristics
4. recognizably different from any other existing variety
5. remain unchanged through the process of propagation (offspring has the same quality of parent plants).

Under the 1991 Act of the UPOV Convention, if a plant variety grouping does not meet these criteria, it should not considered to be a variety. After understanding that, the Convention also defines a breeder as:

"the person who bred, or discovered and developed, a variety".

As for legit cannabis strain breeders I will only include those that created brand new strains with original landrace/heirloom material or meeting the criteria above for new varieties like Sam Skunkman, DJ Short, Charlie Garcia (CBG), Tom Hill, Mario (Delicatessen) and probably a bunch of others I don't really remember or even know in the underground scene. But that's the point, they grow landraces or heirloom strains, they study them, they think which one could match with each other and be 1+1=3, they use their big experience to follow a path, fix the long term goals, cull in consequence and that's it, results can be seen after years of work.

Then we have people like Nevil, Breeder Steve, Grimm Bros, Eddie Redeeker (TFD), Simon Serious or all the new school guys for example like Bodhi, Subcool, Moonshine, Karma and all those talented guys outcrossing other existing hybrids, heirlooms or elite plants bred by other people before and giving them a twist, improving or combining them in order to create slightly different hybrids based off those, sometimes with character, sometimes not.

Finally we can't forget about all the oportunists and bussiness men bunch like Shantibaba, Arjan, Ben Dronkers, Dinafem, DNA, Barney's or all the US and Europe guys chucking on Chem, GG#4, GSC and all the trendy elites and cup winners nowadays. Let's get real, they are just looking for the quick buck and easy props but within a few years, no one will remember anything about them and their strains. They aren't doing anything even close to breeding but taking advantage on other's peoples works and hiring third parties to produce their seeds. You can see how each year they need to release new strains and invest a lot in marketing to prevail, guess why? Because it's the only way they have to keep attracting customers.

For me there another thing I consider certainly important in cannabis breeding: the breeder's taste and signature. Most strains from a breeder should have a certain distinctive character, be it the structure, the flowering times, the smell, the effect and so on. It's the breeder's signature that makes every single strain to be part of a bigger group of recognizable strains bred under the same criteria and style. Grow strains from DJ Short and all of them have certain similarities that are totally DJ's indeed, be the type of high, the colors... that's what made him famous actually and how he developed a timeless signature in cannabis breeding!

But crossing Chem with GSC or any other trendy elite from the past season... damn, how the fuck can you even call that your own breeding work if it's 100% based off other people's work and criteria? What's actually your real contribution to the work? Absolutely none, just some pollen tossing that even a kid could do. Problem is that most growers don't even take the time to educate themselves on history or botany basics and because of this, everyone wants to make money off them!

Another important point, many growers don't need breeders, they are just looking for potent strains to get wasted or grow what's fashionable this season, actually they prefer strains to be similar to each other, not something really different. So for this kind of customer this shouldn't be a problem at all. Things are gonna change though, times are changing and the grower's and pothead's profiles as well. Time will say.

What does this have to do with the thread? And why do you post the exact same thing everywhere?

It seems like you have a hatred for breeders because they don't travel the world and grow fields of landraces to make new strains for you personally. Come up with some original constructive posts and stop with the copying and pasting of your rant, everyone knows there are 2 kinds of breeders, the ones that do the leg work and the ones that rely on the work and knowledge from previous generations. Imo we need both breeders, not every breeder like dj short or Sam the skunkman has the time or space to make the thousands of hybrids we have available today.

[Imsostonedagain]

Originally Posted by Time Bomb

What does this have to do with the thread? And why do you post the exact same thing everywhere?

It seems like you have a hatred for breeders because they don't travel the world and grow fields of landraces to make new strains for you personally. Come up with some original constructive posts and stop with the copying and pasting of your rant, everyone knows there are 2 kinds of breeders, the ones that do the leg work and the ones that rely on the work and knowledge from previous generations. Imo we need both breeders, not every breeder like dj short or Sam the skunkman has the time or space to make the thousands of hybrids we have available today.

While it doesnt really pertain to this thread, I agree with what he said. Also, I have no problem with both types of "breeders", but do hate how pollen chuckers play on ignorance of many growers and charge exorbitant prices for mostly untested, hermi prone garbage. Hopefully as the industry matures, we will see more educated growers and less pollen chuckers just cashing in on the latest elites, but thats doubtful.