[socioecologist]

Just wanted to share this with fellow IC community members. I posted this at another (nice) site to provide a bit of warning to customers.

So we just got our test results back (from the best lab in Oregon, OG Analytical) and I would highly recommend that you either (a) pull this variety or (b) provide an altered description. We bought 12 seeds...2 didn't germinate and 1 never grew out of the cotyledon stage (weird, never seen that before)--that's no big deal though. More importantly, the CBD:THC ratios are NOWHERE near what is advertised. We were perplexed with the initial test results, so we tested all of the plants again....then again. After 3 test results, we're confident in saying that this line is NOT what it is advertised as.

Of the 9 plants tested, 5 are 1:1 ratio plants. Only 4 are 20:1+, which is how this line was advertised. This makes me openly question the "randomness" of the sampling procedures used for the "official" results posted earlier in this thread. This is a 50% high CBD line, the rest are 1:1s.

Our results (averages of two most recent tests, CBD:THC ratio):

Sample 1: 1.55:1
Sample 2: 1.3:1
Sample 3: 24.85:1
Sample 4: 24.4:1
Sample 5: 22.55:1
Sample 6: 26.3:1
Sample 7: 1.3:1
Sample 8: 1.5:1
Sample 9: 1.4:1

We're kind of pissed with the results guys. I buy from Mr. Nice because I have always trusted Shanti's breeding skills, knowledge, and integrity. This is the second time we've had test results that don't match the breeding description (CBD Sugar Gom was the first...). There are some things here that don't add up...hopefully you all can correct this issue or get some updated information out to all the people who bought this line with the expectation that it was a 20:1.

[PrimalHaze]

Thats too bad that the seeds had more thc than anticipated. These seemed like a good option for the cbd only states. Can you show the actual tests?

BTw ... Did you develop a type III strain that produces 10% cbd? I'd like to hear more about any new cbd strains.

I saw you deleted the nice greenhouse photos, is this from your site?....

"Our 2016 plant lines are very different from what other bulk seed sellers are offering. We are providing 100% type-III industrial hemp, high yielding, terpene-rich, perfect for full plant oil extraction, and 75% female seed. We are offering 4 separate varieties, all of which are capable of producing at least 10% CBD or more (some are over 20%!). As if the extremely high oil content wasn’t enough, we will also provide detailed phenotype information, harvest window/compliance testing data, and grower technical support for anyone buying from us. We were 1 of 3 successful farms in Oregon last season and are perfectly situated to help you succeed in 2016!"
---
"Minimum order of 100 seeds @ an anticipated price of $5 per seed, with bulk discounts for orders of 500 seeds ($2000) or more.

$5 per seed?!?!?! To understand the seemingly high price, it’s critical to put our seed stock into perspective in relation to other hemp seed providers and to the seed market in general. All of the industrial hemp seed imported from the EU, Canada, and China and resold by seed brokers have been selectively bred for one of two purposes: (1) fiber or (2) grain production. These cultivars have very low cannabinoid content (sometimes 0%!), which makes them extremely poor candidates for CBD or terpene production. Additionally, most of the imported seed is not obtained from certified producers, which means that the “varieties” offered have been inbred for multiple generations (dramatically reducing vigor) and done so in violation of the original breeder’s intellectual property rights. Worse, and as we saw with some unfortunate farmers’ test results in 2015, these uncertified seed are occasionally very high in THC–which means you risk losing your entire crop to a failed test with the Oregon Department of Agriculture. If your goal for 2016 hemp farming is CBD production, the phrase “buyer beware” definitely applies: you get what you pay for!"

[socioecologist]

We're waiting on the "formal" write-up on the Therapy test results from our lab; the values I wrote above are the raw data they provided us from two tests. I'll post the official results when we get them in.

I wasn't posting this attract attention to our seed production efforts, as the bulk of that is for our own use this growing season here in Oregon.

That said, yes, we have several lines of type III plants that we are making available to licensed hemp growers in May. CBD % in those lines range from 10%-20%. CBD to THC ratios are all 25:1+. We are seeing many in the mid-30s and a handful that test out at over 50:1.

[Gizmo]

hello socioecologist, Shantibaba answered to you at mr nice forum,

hi all

cbd crew made cbd therapy and sell it only in packets of 5 seed so medical patients have a possibility to find an almost pure cbd source to mix with a thc source and work out dosage for themselves. we do not claim this to be a new hemp strain nor do we claim to be doctors. in all samples in 3 different countries the results have been consistent and we printed them up from an indelendent lab set of tests. so while we do claim you can find a hjgh ratio cbd plant good for cloning..from our seed ...we still are working on strains. i personally would invite any growers who test anything to speak directly to me to discuss outcomes.
all the best sb

[socioecologist]

Yes, I saw that. His post does not directly address the problem, unfortunately (in my mind). Therapy is advertised as a consistent 8% CBD, 0.3% THC line. They posted test results for 9 plants that were supposedly taken at random from 90 plants and each one was about 8% / 0.3%. 50% of our plants didn't meet this description and came back as 1:1 ratios.

In their description of the breeding process, they say a select cannatonic female was crossed with a nordle male (afghan x skunk). Of the resulting progeny, two females were selected and back crossed to the cannatonic female. 25% of the cannatonic line throws 20:1+, so their female has to be a 20:1+ (and a sister to AC/DC). I've heard and seen test results that the nordle can be a 1:1. If they used a 1:1 nordle male, the resulting progeny would be 50% 20:1 and 50% 1:1 (which is the generation that the two select females are said to be selected from). If you don't confirm the ratios of those plants before backcrossing to the original (reversed) cannatonic female, there's a chance that one of your females is a 1:1--which would lead directly to the results that we have. If the proper testing wasn't done, there's an equal chance that one female was 1:1 and the other was 20:1, which would result in 75% of the seed being 20:1. We had 50% in our sample though...I think more thorough testing is necessary before knowing which scenario is correct.

The troubling aspect (to me) is that the random sample results (n=9, population=90) reported by Mr. Nice were 100% 20:1. The chances of that happening at random are pretty slim. It could happen, but is highly unlikely.

[PrimalHaze]

I think that breeding scheme is for the Z-series, the first cbd incarnation of the cbd crew.

First called "remedy". Then released fems as Z6 and Z7, then a Z8x AfgHZ. I don't believe the ratios were predictable in those lines and were abandoned from future breeding. Shantibaba mentioned that cannatonic was not involved in any of the cbd crew current lines. Maybe it's the Dulce Canna clone??IDK

But therapy is new, I haven't heard or read anything about the breeding of it. But the marketing did make it sound like it was stable for "the world`s first low THC >0.35% high CBD 5-8% in a seed form". And he said it was tested in 3 different countries

What did you use to get stable strains with those high numbers/ratios?

[Al Botross]

AC/DC i believe

[Betterhaff]

I don't even think the Z series is/was part of the CBD Crew offerings. They were works and precursors to what became the CBD Crew but I believe it was Shanti (and Jamie) working Shant's genetics with Jamie's (Cannatonic although there's been some dispute with that heritage).

[PrimalHaze]

Yeah that sounds right. I never saw the z-series for sale except direct or @ auctions. I picked up a bunch of the z6 and 7 cleanings. Here's some other info on the cbd crew breedings:

Originally Posted by PrimalHaze

So far, CBD Crew has gone through four stages that can be summed up as follows.

2009. Cross between Cannatonic and Shantibaba’s male Afghan/Skunk, in other words a 1/1 x THC ratio. They selected a genotype that expressed the Indica side (Z6) and another that expressed the Sativa side (Z7). The regular version was a new Z6 and Z7 cross with the Afghan/Skunk male, while the feminized version was a Z6 and Z7 cross with a reversed Cannatonic to act as male. Test results showed that CBD was not present in all offspring, which led to this line of work being discontinued.

2010. Cross between Cannatonic and Dulce Canna, in other words a 1/1 x CBD ratio. It gave better results than the previous hybrid, with some specimens showing very high levels of CBD, but there was no guarantee of CBD in all offspring, so this line was also discontinued.

2011- 2012. After an in-depth study of the scientific literature, they reached the conclusion that the only way to achieve their goal was to cross a genotype containing THC with another genotype, containing pure CBD. They started crossing Dulce Canna with strains containing only THC and, finally, achieved the sought-after results. CBD Crew created their current collection using Dulce Canna as breeder: CBD Critical Mass, CBD Shark Shock, CBD Mango Haze, CBD Nordle, CBD Skunk Haze, CBD Yummy, CBD Sweet and Sour Widow and CBD Medihaze. For the first time in history, a seedbank presented a collection where all their plants’ offspring presented over 4% CBD (with a higher CBD level than THC level), meaning that 100% of their specimens could be considered rich in CBD.

2013 – 2014. With a product of stable quality on the table, other seedbanks have begun showing interest in these genetics. Based on their desire to spread the CBD Wave to the rest of the world, CBD Crew are open to collaborations with several first-rate seedbanks like Dutch Passion, Positronics, Medical Seeds, Royal Queen Seeds, Grass-O-Matic or Dinafem, Paradise Seeds, Eva Seeds and Barney’s Farm. Jaime localized another genotype containing only CBD in a CBD Medihaze hybrid (Psychohaze x Dulce Canna); this plant would be used to introduce CBD into Sativa strains, making it available also with the terpene profiles of a Sativa.

[highsteppa]

Aside from the the advertising, It must not that easy to lock down the high CBD%. If breeding cannabis was easy we all wouldn't be pheno hunting the 5%er. Honestly, 4 out of 9 doesnt seem that bad. Is any cbd seed line producing more stable results? I hope the 4 you have are nice and provide relief to someone in need.