Breeding hermaphroditism traits from Landraces.

I could be way off the mark here...

but perhaps it might make sense to consider all Cannabis to be intersex to one degree or another. Although there may not be any "true" males or females, the hybrid strains most grow today (any given individual) might be 95% male/5% female or 99% female/1% male, or something along those lines.

It might also be worth considering that intersex traits are a type of survival mechanism, and perhaps (I'm just speculating) we are taking landraces that grow normally (without intersex expression for the most part) in the environment that they have been acclimatized to over many generations, but once taken out of that environment (stuffed into tiny pots Vs growing in open ground, given artificial light Vs real sun, etc...) a high proportion express intersex traits due to the stress of not growing in conditions they are used to.

Perhaps someone who has spent time with the same landrace grown under both these types of conditions could offer some insights here, but I suspect people like that are as rare as hen's teeth...

Mystic Funk said:

I didn't catch what strain yours is?? but I love to see when a plant has that staggered fringed leaf!


I think people call that alligator tails??


I see that in a lot of sams skunk.


post up some more pics. those are some nice looking plants. I can see why you want to breed out the intersex.

Click to expand...

It is a SE European landrace. It's really what I believe to be a bastard strain ( hybrid ) but it surely has been acclimatized for some decades in the area . In fact the area is a host of many older landraces that were imported from ancient years but there are still some "dominant" variaties that you stumble across from time to time . Mainly it's Africans and Asian sativas, I have never seen (mostly) indicas around my area or smoked it actually before until someone grew some. Some people say that a dominant strain is a Lebanese Red x Highland Thai and this could fit the description of what I have....

These are the "true" females I have so far , about one or two plants per 100 plants will be a REALLY short sativa ( the shortest sativa that you have probably seen ) with the thinnest "thai" looking leaves and these will hopefully carry the high I like. This plant(s) have extremely good characteristics for growing indoors (minus the hermie trait ) and would be the quickest shortest clear sativa that I know, it might be crap though . One in 100 will be an extremely vigourous tall female that has minimal side branching. Some have thai pine tree shape some are mostly one cola but more to the pine tree shape than one cola. At least half of the plants have the pink pistil trait ( from North Africa genetics ? ) . Half of them have alligator leaves and half of them have lighter colour bigger thinner leaves. These plants are never as long flowering or thin buds like a pure thai but the high is similar to thais, clear with the lsd-like psychedelic mindscape but will leave you not exhausted but almost sober and refreshed after the high wears off.... It is not unlike the nevils haze I grew for 6 years straight but it is more clear and less... hazy Last years I work a lot and I appreciate clear strains that let you work but still be trippy/psychedelic, a bit like microdosing on psychedelics or "vitamin high" if you wanna call it

I have selected 7 males and I might narrow it down to 4 after smoking them... there are 3 plants that I don't like their characteristics and I think the other 4 are superior plus hair production looks better under microscope. I will collect pollen from the others though as backup and I have cloned all the true females so far so if I want to go back I can do it.

Of course you can reduce intersex in any population. Use big plant numbers and only use the least intersex as parents. Intersex is not dominate, early males do not express intersex more then late males. Using STS to self a female will help show if a single clone has intersex traits as they will be expressed in progeny and then you can avoid them and the parent. It will take 4-5 years to come up with an intersex free line or a population that hardly expresses intersex. Most varieties have some individuals with intersex traits, some like Thai are notoriously intersex, but with work you can breed away from them, try and use intersex free, test any females with stress tests or by selfing the plant and growing the progeny, or both. Avoid using anything intersex, as intersex begets intersex. With South African Durban Poison I used the least intersex the first few years, then intersex free for several years, to create the intersex free population, not 100% but almost.... The first year they were all intersexed to some degree.
You can also stress test any female parent before using as a seed parent, use every stress you can think of,
* Inconsistent Light Schedules
* Pinhole Light Leaks During Flowering
* Excess or Extreme Changes in Temperature
* Bound Roots
* pH too Low/High
* Lighting Spectrum Change
* Media Excessively Wet/Dry
* Excessive Supercropping/Heavy-Trimming
* Root Pruning
* Proximity to Sessions (just making sure you're reading. lol)
* Over/Under Feeding
* Incorrect Nutrient Profile
* Insects/Disease/Fungi
* Pesticide/Chemical Exposure
* Extended Flowering Time
-SamS

bump.. great thread!

Mystic Funk said:

sorry this is not the best pic. if you look at the leaf on the left you can see that the leaf fringe is split that's what I think they call alligator tail. the one on the right is symmetrical (normal leaf)




[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=66429&pictureid=1579813&thumb=1]View Image[/URL] on left (skunk)...right (thai)

Click to expand...

Lots of cheese varieties have the double serrated leaf edges I think that's a trait of skunk although I've seen it on unrelated varieties too

Any updates I33t???

I think SamS nailed it with the testing of females using sts and then using the least intersex offspring of the least % of intersex females. Then test the males using one female and see what make throws the lowest % of intersex offspring. Then breed that best male to the S1 babies of the least intersex female and see how that looks...

IMO proving out good parents is the first step rather than going off whole open pollination % numbers....

Thanks for the info Sam. Good to see you back around l33t. Good luck with your project.

M.

Is this the playbook for intesex mitigation: “Use big plant numbers and only use the least intersex as parents.”? Any other proven techniques?

Until there are DNA tests for Intersex you need to do what I suggested. My method does work.

-SamS

Thanks Sam! Interested in a breeding project to stabilize a intersex dominant Philippine landrace cultivar in under 5 years and 10000 plants...no idea what a realistic timeline would be...assume the answer is it all depends on skill and luck.