Having a seedling problem

yesman · Mar 15, 2016

Posted elsewhere, but thought I'd post in the coco forum here. Here's a pic:

I was thinking it's either:

1. Nute burn (don't think so, most of the leaf tips look fine)
2. pH is off (probably not, always feed at 5.8 and meter is calibrated and checked against drop test kit as well)
3. Dirty tap water (ppms run 140-150 out of the faucet, locals are encouraged not to drink it directly)
4. Cal/Mag deficiency (this early??)

After the yellowing & brown spot appeared a two days ago, I started using filtered water (from a machine). The ppms after filtering went down to 7.5. I have no idea what's in the water as I'm not in my home country.

Beyond those four possibilities, I'm completely stumped. It's C99 from Female Seeds and I know it's quite a light feeder, although I feel I haven't been giving it too much. It's been started from seed in Botanicare coco (from a brick) and I've mixed it with 30% rice hulls. Two and a half weeks since popping, weird tri-leaf formation too. I'm going to wait and see if the filtered water doesn't make a positive change.

Any thoughts? Much appreciated.

Baron Greenback · Mar 15, 2016

The new growth is good though right?
Have you tried all the usual suspects? Flush or a cal/mag deficiency? Ph sounds like you have that under control, how's the root structure?
You could try a foliar feed with epsom salts or similar. People I know swear by Formulex as a foliar feed for re-greening plants so that could be worth a try.
If you think there's enough leaf to keep her alive, remove the damaged growth as it is just an energy sink for the plant.
|Good luck

yesman · Mar 16, 2016

Thanks for the reply, BG! I gave it a little more time and it looks like the yellowing has been contained and growth has resumed. After only trying a switch to filtered water, and seeing turnaround results, it appears that the water quality indeed would have been the main culprit. If this is true, it explains why I've had only one successful grow since I started 4 years ago. I could never understand why nearly all my grow attempts seemed to be plagued by problems and doomed to an early death. I just assumed the tap water here would be sufficient, but why didn't I try this sooner? If this starts a new chapter of success in my grow life, I will be ONE FUCKING HAPPY MAN!!!

Al Botross · Mar 16, 2016

With short internode indicas sometimes that can be cause by upsplash. the top/newest growth looks well give it a tad more nitrogen see if it can kick a groth spurt.

brainzfuxed · Mar 16, 2016

what nutes are you using? What are the ppm? What is the Ppm of your filtered water as opposed to tap water?
140-150 is very clean tap are you sure you aren't missing a digit or a zero? The ppm by me is 700

yesman · Mar 16, 2016

brainzfuxed said:
what nutes are you using? What are the ppm? What is the Ppm of your filtered water as opposed to tap water?
140-150 is very clean tap are you sure you aren't missing a digit or a zero? The ppm by me is 700

I'm using Dyna-gro (Grow, Pro-Tekt, and Mag-Pro) at 20% of their recommended week 2 feeding for DTW systems. In my past experience, C99 from FMS is a super light feeder. The ppm of the water after filtering and before adding nutes was almost zero (7.5). After adding the nutes above it's around 120ppm.

I know I've read around 150ppm is supposed to be very clean tap water...

the problem for me is I live in a country on the other side of the world. So, it would be difficult for me to request a municipal breakdown of the tap water in my area (impossible? I don't know). Also, as a westerner myself, I've learned to never assume anything in life here operates in a "standard" way that I'm used to. Therefore, even with the low ppms, I'm only left to speculate what kinds of crazy shit might be in the water.

Having said that, I honestly could be dead wrong; the water might be fine as is. I've run a successful hempy bucket once years ago, but to my memory now that was britta filtered at that time. I also have never calibrated my HM Digital EC/TDS meter....

brainzfuxed · Mar 16, 2016

Well maybe you have super clean tap water (by most normal standards) but there could be an irregularity of too high amount of one or two of the elements or minerals... that when added with your nutrients could throw off that balance and create a lockout. Now I'm not a pro right but that's the only logical explanation. Sometimes it's not about the amount, but about the ratio of elements. So for example all though your tap water is ppm of 120 a majority of it could be either calcium or magnesium or one of the other elements in abnormally high amounts that when combined with your nutrients and cal mag -could throw off the balance of nutrients and create a lock out. Hopefully someone else can chime in here and give their thoughts on this

In addition, do you have any close up on the leaves? Are they burning on the tips? I would definitely continue to use filtered water. I doubt you would have a cal mag issue this early

chronosync · Mar 16, 2016

Have you thought about collecting rain water? If you are that worried about your water either have it tested, you can test some things yourself or don't use it.

My tap water comes @ 325ppm through old pipes and a well. I have no idea what is in it but I'm not having any problems other than having to watch my feed because the ec of the well certainly adds up to run my nutes hot.

Did you say you are feeding them @ 120ppm???

Nitrogen def. From under feeding starts at the bottom. I have no idea what that brown spot is. Could be P def. I would be feeding that plant 300ppm, 200-250ppm maybe if sativa or you said it's a light feeder.

What are those shells on the top?

Green_Farm · Mar 16, 2016

What are you using for light?

Green_Farm · Mar 16, 2016

You might be overwatering it.

yesman · Mar 16, 2016

Hey guys, I definitely appreciate the replies. Here's a photo I took today:

brainzfuxed:
EXACTLY what I was thinking with the water and possible mineral imbalance and lockout. I'm thinking there's a good reason the locals are encouraged not to drink from the tap; everyone buys bottled or filters at home. There's also what looks like a crusty white buildup around my shower and bathroom mirror (no, it's not dried cum :biggrin:

) from the water splashing about. Seems like I can't upload high rez pics here at IC, but hopefully you can click the thumb above and see that it seems that even at this low nute feeding, the tips are still slightly burnt.

chronosync:
I can't do rainwater because I'm doing a cab grow in the high rise where I live and don't have the wherewithal or space to collect it. I know it seems to be quite a weak nute feeding, but the tips of the leaves seem a little crispy, right? Crazy to me how little C99 sips. The shells are rice hulls for drainage. Mixed them in with the coco @ 30%.

Green Farm:
I'm using a Prosource Illuminator Jumbo 180w LED. I've scorched plants before having this badboy too close, so now it sits at more than 24" for this early stage of growth (as recommended by the manufacturer). I'm watering every other day. From what I've read about watering with coco, and with the rice hulls for drainage, it doesn't appear that this is an issue.

Once again, I really do appreciate the input from you guys. Like I said, it's been over four years now with only one finished grow. I'm going to figure this out. I want regular harvests!

yesman · Mar 16, 2016

Al Botross:
Thanks, I got your message but I can't figure out how to reply. I can see a couple little roots poking through at the bottom. Just the tips, but they look white and healthy. Feeding once every two days at the moment. Upping that now will benefit the growth, yeah?

chronosync · Mar 16, 2016

Have you grown in coco before?

yesman · Mar 16, 2016

Nope, basically my first time.

chronosync · Mar 16, 2016

Coco is kinda tricky at first. My advice is to slowly increase the feed. If not in strength then in frequency. But I can't tell if you're at that point yet. Where you can feed every day. In a few weeks you shouldn't have any issues if you can feed frequently with lots of runoff you will have eliminated any suspected lockouts or cec problems with the coco.

What brand coco? Did you charge it first or did it come pre charged?

yesman · Mar 16, 2016

It's Botanicare from the brick. By precharge, do you mean soaking it for a day in pH'd nute solution? If so, no I didn't do that. I flushed it a couple times and then hit it once with a light pH'd nute feeding when I put the seed in.

Weeded1s · Mar 16, 2016

With the last bit of info included im wondering if you didnt wash out all the pre charged cal/mag and its slowly getting replaced back with each new feed

yesman · Mar 18, 2016

Does Botanicare coco come with cal/mag added to it? I didn't know that...so there's no need to worry about salt and flushing? I've heard some people do, some don't.

Here's an update on the growth, I think it's looking good so far. Here's two days ago:

and this is just now:

Does that amount of growth look pretty standard for a healthy plant at this stage after two days? I'm hoping everything is copacetic and I'm on my way to saving this girl.

chronosync · Mar 18, 2016

Most people thoroughly wash brick coco just to be safe. Compressed coco used to be really cheap if you wanted to do the extra work and rinse it. Now some high end stuff is more common in bricks.

If you're not sure what your coco contains, look it up, it's important.

The coco I have now is really nice but comes un charged. Someone told me it's not common.

maimunji · Mar 18, 2016

Start to feed you have good light. Start to feed with 1.2 e.c or even more give full strength don't worry.

Having a seedling problem

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