Referendum on Europe

Whats everyone's thoughts..
Do you think we should stay or leave the Euro zone ?
And what affect will it have on any future attempts at canna legalization ?
One thing I do know is how much poli"trick" bullshit are they gonna feed us over the next few months with them trying to win votes for one side or the other, its gonna be interesting to say the least.
I'm undecided at the moment though but it might not matter if I get my visa to get the f**k outta here.
But I'm also not that sure what affect it would have on legalizing the herb, a lot euro countries do seem to be a lot more relaxed than us and I'd be worried that our government on its own might bring in harsher penalties.


Respect

Raspaul

Hey raspaul, I reckon it will make zero difference being in or out, trade would still exist with or without it. £ 50 million a day just to be in the eu, that's for the uk but I would imagine similar costing for countries. To top it off the European Union hasn't been audited for over 20 years so we have no idea on how the real money is being spent or who's back pockets it's going in to.
There will always be a brotherhood with Europe but to be told how to live by Brussels is fucking ridiculous. This means the people have very little power in changing local laws that are Pertinent to them, culture fades into some Bobby bullshit mashup.

Sorry for rant, I love the European countries, just dislike the bigwigs.

uk will stay. Cant see the benefit of leaving for the average brit, seems only the city and party donors would benefit by having labour laws and other pesky laws like the human rights act flushed away.

Hmm have we looked at the financial status of most of Europe? Banks like to throw there weight around, there's a reason why the city of London exists. Financial capital of Europe for many hundreds of years....
The way I see it, Europe was trading before the creation of the eu and will continue to do whatever happens, why can't there be a united Europe without Brussels controlling powers?

So, the idea of a European Union is great, be it less controlling.

I honestly thought most people would want out, but nearly everybody I've spoken to want's to stay in.
Is anyone looking at how the Scottish referendum went and using that as a basis for this one ?
The Scots were being promised all sorts to stay part of the UK and they took the bait, I wonder if they would vote the same way now..
Probably not and they might not get another chance at it.
And I reckon the same will happen with this one, they'll promise us loads to stay in, we will and then get nothing in return

Respect

Raspaul

There was a really interesting piece on the Guardian about this - related to that absolute fucking **** Boris Johnson - and some of the comments laid out exactly what we had benefited from by being part of the EU. The most noticeable were things like a Human Rights law, minimum wage, vast collective bargaining power at the WTO - things such as having to re-negotiate individual trade agreements with 53 other nations, the cost of being isolated whilst having all of our closest neighbours in the EU were glossed over.
One of the assumptions from the "Out" camp appears to be that once the people have spoken, the EU will open its arms to get the UK back in, new deals, more favourable terms and so on - the most likely outcome is a big fat "meh, well fuck off then, we'll get on better without your poxy little island anyway" and the country will be well and truly up the creek without a paddle.

I hope that the brits stay in, it´s more a win/win situation for booth sides. If the brits make a brexit, there are coming real tough times for the english economy.

i dont want to point fingers but uk needs to stay in to keep an eye on certain nations cough cough

Baron Greenback said:

the country will be well and truly up the creek without a paddle.

Click to expand...

you will be made an example of for sure .Wouldnt be surprised if the uk started it own union for us non mainlanders.

I'll vote to stay in..

The 'Is Britain part of Europe' question has a very long history. Our little island has always wanted to be a part of the whole but a step away from it.

"One way to describe this relationship would be to say that the United Kingdom has always been a partner of Europe without being a full participant in it." - http://www.historytoday.com/david-abulafia/britain-apart-or-part-europe

Not the best article and a little biased but gives an idea of how others think about the whole thing.

In my eyes it's almost a geological question. We're a part of the European continental plate and the only thing that separates us is a thin strip of water. That strip of water in some ways makes us think we're very separate. Unfortunately economically and politically it does. Some things cost a lot more in the UK than else where in Europe because of that thin strip of water. But is that because of greed and the fact that we're willing to pay more than most others for things? I don't know.

As for the cannabis question, I think we'll see more European countries loosen up before we do but who knows.

I'll vote to stay in. I love diversity and not afraid of change

The EU started as a trading agreement, free borders and soem unified laws and standards, a good idea, it presented a far more effective and efficient front for the emerging global market, unified and able to do Pete against the US and others.

The problems really started when it began to become a sself sustaining beast, with a vested interest in its own growth, in its own expansion and the increased in powers.

When were we asked if we want to secede sovereignty to Europe ? Why should European Union government in Brussels control the UK, our laws and now ,borders? The UK voted for the Conservatives, and by a massive margin, not to be controlled by a self serving Socialist super state that is constantly trying to increase its powers over us and constanly grow into an ever bigger Government that just lines their pockets at our expense.

I'll be voting to stay in, leave those Europeans to it and there'll be bodies all over the place. Britain needs be at the centre and acting as a calming influence. Also it'll be economic suicide to come out.

@ Chaos - apparently it's up to individual nations how they interpret the laws. The French don't seem to take much notice of some of them whereas Britain follows them blindly.
Things seem to be more of a guideline here than a law

Yes, true Baron, nowhere else in Europe do you see or hear much of the stupid Euro laws hampering business. Here most restaurants happily keep cooked food alongside raw pork and chicken, yet they haven't killed many customers to my knowledge. I can't actually remember seeing any Euro laws enacted outside of the UK.

The Human Rights law is one that many hate, a number of Solicitors and Lawyers have used this to help the biggest shitbags around, paedophiles, rapists and most importantly, terrorists to stay in the country and/or escape prosecution. The point is, not many people disagree with economic and legal cooperation for trade, but that the EU has become, with no invitation or mandate, a self feeding beast, another level of government over and above our own. This is what is wrong, we no longer control out own country, and the people who do are not our friends and do not have our best interests at heart, or apparently any brains at all.

Specifically, Merkel and her absurd opening the doors to anybody claiming to be a refugee, with zero plan whatsoever for even being to stop the tide. If you understand the situation in the Middle East, it is not going to get better, it is going to get a lot worse, the Sunni hate the Shia far more than they hate us the Jews Americans etc That is going to blow up into a more desperate situation than anything we have yet seen. Are you aware that the real shit is the Saudis squaring up to the Iranians, the execution of their cleric a month ago, the Iranian bomb was never going to land on Washington, it is really for Riyadh. The Saudis are allegedly trying/have bought an off the shelf bomb from their fellow Sunnis in Pakistan... But don't worry, Frau Merkel has invited everyone into Europe because that will make things better ? No, it won't. Getting out of this EU superstate and the daft shit being now forced on us sadly is essential.

Very good points Chaos - there is a certain duty as human beings to help others in need or distress (I won't make any tired, lazy animals comparisons) but that does then open itself up to abuse of the most egregious kind - unfortunately, people are mostly fucking stupid and easily led, opening the way for "clerics" and others to exploit them.
Lawyers do seem to revel in the fact that they can beat the law, even if they know the client is guilty, the richer you are the more chance you have of getting off.
The idea of a European superstate does appeal to me, I am utterly fed up seeing countries going to war just because the US says so and alliances with our closest neighbours is always a good idea. The problem is the massive sucking of the corporate cock - again, human nature seems to look for nest lining as much as possible, altruism is unfortunately the exception rather than the rule. The EU is bloated and cumbersome, but as a trade block and facilitator for occasional laws that benefit the poor, it is useful.
Just now need to treat the millions and millions of severely mentally ill people who profess belief in an invisible beardy man controlling everything

the 4 big right wing organizations that own most of the press have bought this referendum about, they will try and make it all about immigration.
none of the heads of these press organizations live or pay tax in Britain.

57% of our trade is with europe under many Eu trade agreements, all of these would have to be renegotiated and this will take years. we will have to pay for access to these markets if we are out of europe, just like they have to pay in norway etc. basically we will still have to pay but have no say in what happens if we are out of europe. whilst in europe we have to pay but at least we get a vote and a veto.

the EU is by no means perfect but to leave is going to have many unexpected consequences and hardships for the man on the street

this was on a facebook post:

Things that the EU did for us

clean beaches and rivers;
cleaner air;
lead free petrol;
restrictions on landfill dumping;
a recycling culture;
cheaper mobile charges;
cheaper air travel;
improved consumer protection and food labelling;
a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives;
better product safety;
single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance;
break up of monopolies;
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection;
no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market;
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone;
freedom to travel, live and work across Europe;
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad;
access to European health services;
labour protection and enhanced social welfare;
smoke-free workplaces;
equal pay legislation;
holiday entitlement;
the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime;
strongest wildlife protection in the world;
improved animal welfare in food production;
EU-funded research and industrial collaboration;
EU representation in international forums;
bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO;
EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty;
European arrest warrant;
cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence;
European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa;
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond;
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.
All of this is nothing compared with its greatest achievements: the EU has for 60 years been the foundation of peace between European neighbours after centuries of bloodshed.
It furthermore assisted the extraordinary political, social and economic transformation of 13 former dictatorships, now EU members, since 1980.
Now the union faces major challenges brought on by neoliberal economic globalisation, and worsened by its own systemic weaknesses. It is taking measures to overcome these. We in the UK should reflect on whether our net contribution of £7bn out of total government expenditure of £695bn is good value. We must play a full part in enabling the union to be a force for good in a multi-polar global future.

i will be voting to stay in

VG

Dunno about that bro.

Spain is bankrupt. Italy is bankrupt. Greece is bankrupt the majority of the eu countries are bankrupt and they all rely on the uk paying in millions on a daily basis to keep it going not to mention that all the eu officials are non elected they are all selected so its more of a dictatorship and total control of each european state

If i had kids id want their futures decided here in britain by our own elected goverments plus all the money thats saved by not paying into a failed project to be re-invested back into the nhs and schools etc etc and making britain great again

The bigger agenda for the eu is to erode all nations soveringty so no britain no france etc etc just a united states of europe goverened by these unelected officials dictating what they thinks right for our futures not to mention the laws these people pass onto us from the eu without even our britians vote on it.

Migration is another aspect. The massive influx of people coming into europe is just another way of eroding nation states as they want you to loose your soverignty and we have no say on this cause again its dictated to us by the eu centralisation of power

You only have to look or read statements from the likes of george sorros the tri lateral commision henry kissinger the international moneytary funds christians lagarde etc to see what these globalists have planned for humanity. Nothing is hidden its all out there for you tonread and these are the people who are pushing for these changes to happen

The whole uk industry has been sold off to overseas projects. Mining industrie gone steel industry gone manufacturing gone nhs being privatised pensions gone. This was all done and ochestrated as part of the bigger agenda

Im still young so i will have to face future generstions question of what i did at the time of this vote and i will be able to stand and say i tried to make a difference. The world we leave behind is the one our next generation grows up in

Sorry but im for the out vote. Fuk thd globalists and their agendas for the enslavement of the people.

Power to the people.lets make britain great again

Also if we do vote out please dont think for 1 minute that european countries wont still be selling us their products. Bmw and audi and ferraris and lambos are not gonna dissapear off our streets the eu still need our money so nothing will change other than taking our power back to self govern ourselves and our futures

hi skotty, italy pay more to the EU than the UK, spain slightly less.
to say they all rely on UK payments is just not true, germany and france pay much more than we do, and we make way more on our trade with europe through all the trade deals.

i agree the world trade has become globalized, there are three major players - USA, China and the EU. globalization has happened and will not be reversed. what will Britain be able to do on its own? nothing. tax systems need to catch up with globalization so the big companies and individuals pay their fair share, and this can only be done through co-operation and the clout of big organisations like the EU.

the narrative in the right wing press on immigration is incredibly negative, it seems to forget that most immigrants to the UK are doing low payed, shitty jobs that most british people would rather be on benefits than take on. where would the NHS be without migrant labour for example?
do you know what % of Asylum seekers who reach europe ask to go to Britain? - 2%. You wouldn't think that reading the papers would you...

many of the industrial problems you list eg steel, are down to globalization rather than EU problems

britain will never be 'great' again, and tbh that is maybe a good thing. we became 'great' through invading other countries, exploiting and stealing their resources, and selling their people as slaves. that is over thank f*ck. UK's influence in the world is dwinding. If we leave the EU we will have much less influence in Europe and the world.

VG

@Verdant Green - excellent points, the "outers" do seem to be hearkening back to the halycon days, post-war, baby booming ideal that UKIP seem to think existed everywhere.
As you say, trade is globalised (I hate that fact) and as a poxy, unimportant little island trying to negotiate with the big boys - well, that won't go too well will it?
Britain seems to be all in favour of free travel and work within the EU, but not so keen when it's not us, but the pesky foreigns doing it.

yep, and lots of british people go and live or work in europe.
1 million british in spain - taking advantage of sun and cheep property
3.6 million in germany - lots of work there
etc etc

The Eu is the social security(dole) of dysfunctional corrupt countries

as for global trade? it changes hourly, with cash flowing mostly to China

Look to the recent events in the EU with illegal immigrants

as a fine example, as mentioned elsewhere

"We did not vote for federalism, we voted for a common market,"

Do you really need to watch as ones lifestyle is dissolved into a

bland, pan-European homogenized culture.?

if you want that move to the states, even china

good luck