Register ICMag Forum Menu Features Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
You are viewing our:
in:
Forums > Marijuana Growing > Grow Diaries > Do wrong right

Thread Title Search
Click for great deals at MB Ferts
Post Reply
Do wrong right Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-07-2016, 10:22 PM #1
rykus
Member

rykus's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Under lights
Posts: 841
rykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nice
Do wrong right

Hey guys, long time apprentice to this fine plant and many folks along my journey with this path .... Coming up on my 24th year growing and now with legal and social shifts I decided to come out of the under ground scene and join the push for legitimate future keeping these plants out of corporate hands.

I joined this forum for a few reasons, the first being to glean a little knowledge from the collective mind and rework a few aspects of my system to improve yield and health, and reduce costs and lower my contributions to companies that make a living over pricing foods and equipment for us, I feel this will be a huge a block for us against corporate mj industry.

Second is I would like to share some of my knowlage through growing up in a thriving but structured underground illegal pot industry, and apprenticing and operating through the ups and downs of the 90's till now in all the aspects I can remember. This is where some of the Internet facts on mj seem out of line with some of the foundations of my learning.

Thirdly and most importantly to me so it could be a while in the making, and I will have to do it slowly and carefully, is I would like to keep myself employed in the ever changing cannabis scene by starting some small companies to help independent growers produce the most highest quality smoke with the least impact on themselves and the environment. Cause I guess I'm an old anti corperate hippy like that..


Going to fallow Stoney's lead and just ramble for a bit on some of my past/influences and some of my techniques to get the party started, then I'll throw up some pics once enough people get sufficiently agitated and convinced I'm wrong... Because reading through here I'm thinking there might be some of that...

K so I'll start out posting up a quaint little 32 bulber, it has been nice place and is the most consistent I have seen so good basis for this thread, I admittedly maxed out at 2.1 per with my old system with the local pink kush clones, so changing out and this will be my first run with my strains and some new tech from the forums, I will be looking to get up over 2.5 this year and document it here for any looking for an easy system.

Place is 4 8 light rooms with in a single lung room, 2 3 ton ac's, basically a 10x48 work space and 4 12x18 rooms dropped cielings with dropped angles so 8 foot flat spot, then a 2 foot angle on the edges, makes the whole ceiling a giant reflector, bare bulbs, about 6'6" ... Those old school guys from OG might remember the BC bud to the max thread. That was same room design but hydro n less plants, mine are 15g of organic soil mix(I'll get into that) 24 plants a room gives me 96 total, coming in right under my 98 plant licence.. So the math is 8 ounces a plant will get me 1.5 and if I could get 1 lbs per then I would get 3 per.... That's is the long term goal I feel I could achieve with a little help on soil and feed, and some work with my strain, because that's going to be the exciting part! Bringing back the 2 lbs hash plants from prohibition era BC genes into some different flavours. I am also going to try and do some breeding for an extract guy I met a while back for some crazy flavours and smells.

I do feed my plants as well, as I have always been taught that elevating feed and co2 levels accelerates growth and with proper conditions plants are almost completely resistant to mould and pests. In fact to go one step farther I would say 90% of growers are creating toxic environments with ph up/down, flushing and toxic quick fixes to problems with deeper roots(literally). This expensive toxic way of growing is promoted by the mj industry and fuels commercial growing in BC in a bad way, and often when I am asked to consult the problem has been compounded so bad the plant is unable to resist any pest and the soil is unable to support stable life promoting environment.

Once healthy roots and soil are thriving they will quickly consume quallity refined mineral salt based feeds in a healthy manner, this acts as a immediate and very easy to manipulate tool to deliver and adjust the nutrients the plant sees at the roots. Used right this will produce a plant that will out grow and yield a sterile full chemical program, and is slightly more tune able for a hack like me to get the most from my plants with out access to soil testing. I am very excited to learn more here about soil and I feel that that is an area I am going to learn a lot here and get over the 2.5 mark and maybe on to 3!

Another area I am excited to learn about is making my own feeds and teas. So welcome to my thread, and although much of what I say may sound wrong to many here, bear with me and I'll post up pics from my last kush run and start documenting my seed run that I will be doing.

Cheers
rykus is offline Quote


5 members found this post helpful.
Old 01-07-2016, 10:51 PM #2
rykus
Member

rykus's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Under lights
Posts: 841
rykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nice
Guess first I'll talk about soil as that is one of the few things that interact so closely with the plant and is the basis for so many problems that lead to grower frustration. It is amazing to me the basic principals are so lost in the chaos of theory that floats around as fact.

First is flushing.... There is no point that running straight water through your medium is a "good move" . In hydro the plant sees the optimal temp/nutrient ec/ph/dissolved oxygen ratio ideally 100% of the time for max growth, this can be instantly fine tuned, but any big shifts cause stress....

Now apply this to soil, why would you want to go from dry high ec to over saturated low ec... Not good.. The only real flush that I could see is in extreme cases to run a medium ec medium ph to stabilize the soil if you didn't know what was going on.
This is especially true in small containers of peat based mediums that rely on lime to correct ph, over watering or flushing leaches the lime out making for a very unstable medium.also you ever notice how it's harder to adjust ph in higher ec, same is true in soil if you manage to actually lower the ec of the soil it will become much more susceptible to ph swings resulting in lock out. If you are having issues and suspect soil problems the best idea is to repeatedly feed about 1.5-2 ec and 6.2-6.5 ph of appropriate feed, and foliar for any suspected deficiencies... IMO any ways flushing when the plant is already stressed leads to over saturated medium and horrible conditions for plant recovery.air helps manage pathogens in soil and roots uptake more in proper air/moisture ratios.

I use 1 bale pro mix hp, 2 110l perlite, 3 50l coco, 3 bags mushroom manure, 3 20l of worm castings and 2 bags sea soil. I add 3l of organic bloom mix like Gia earth or flower power and 2 litres of pyro clay.this fills 17 15 gal pots with a 2 gal start.

Would like to try using some additives and mixes I'm reading about here and trying to apply high Brix and better cal/phos mix but this is what I've been doing so there it is, high drain high feed soil that is really light and airy and almost impossible for workers to over saturate. Saves a ton of food cost too.

I try and use hydro as my base line, an old grower once told me if my plants don't drink by the second day I need to add a day to flower... But really what it comes down to is the plant ideally wants to see at all times a perfect mix of air to water, with proper ph and lots of readily available food from multiple sources.... The more often you water in smaller amounts is bringing you closer in the air/water department, and I feel to hit 3 per I will need to be using a timer to feed a smaller bit every day right before lights on( rooms that are heavy saturated repeatedly before lights off do worse with other conditions ideal, common in unmanned flip shows) then hand topping up to even out the heavy feeders.

Last edited by rykus; 01-08-2016 at 03:37 AM..
rykus is offline Quote


2 members found this post helpful.
Old 01-07-2016, 11:14 PM #3
McKush
Éirinn go Brách

McKush's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: In the backwoods, by the rivers of my memory
Posts: 2,047
McKush is a name known to allMcKush is a name known to allMcKush is a name known to allMcKush is a name known to allMcKush is a name known to allMcKush is a name known to allMcKush is a name known to allMcKush is a name known to allMcKush is a name known to allMcKush is a name known to allMcKush is a name known to all
Welcome rykus. I'm happy to be the first to follow
__________________
H. B. McKush

Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
McKush is offline Quote


Old 01-07-2016, 11:16 PM #4
rykus
Member

rykus's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Under lights
Posts: 841
rykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nice
Next is room conditions, and although I feel a lot of people are closer to on track in this department I also see a high cost factor with some failings too....

I like to use lung rooms, they seem to be way more safe and consistent, I recommend in any sealed grow to invest in high temp shut offs. But basics are easy to maintain in a larger cubic feet of air space, then this air can be pulled at a high rate of exchange through the smaller cubic ft of grow space.... No fans in the rooms, direct air flow strips water from the plant and adds stress...


Now the big one... I feel that using co2 is beneficial as a pest and mould management.. IMO plants developed or evolved depending on your views in a much higher moisture and co2 rich environment.... This lead to high growth and in turn high production of rich soil and whoala... Huge mother f'n pre historic super plants.... Now the next time yo feed just try upping the ec... Till you see burn... If your in hydro you can actually see plant immediately wilt a bit as when the ec of the water exceeds the ec of the plant it will actually reverse its capillary action and lose water to the res! Getting off topic but if you usually feed at 2 ec your plant will adjust its metabolism to operate at 2 ec and will become stressed at any change to regularity of feed and water.... So going to 3 ec will likely burn a bit.... But if you put your co2 up proportionately it will thrive! This is why these side by side tests often fail, a plant fed at only 2 ec will not thrive in elevated co2, just as a weight lifter will not thrive on the diet of a long distance runner or at the oxygen level of mountain climbers... They trained their body to operate to an extreme using diet and stimulation to achieve desired results.... Same for mj plants, they can be pushed to extremes of yield, flavour ,smell, potency colour ect. All factored by nutrients and environment.

Anyways if you work with the plant and use common sense you will find many strains will become super plants, and once healthy roots are established through a high. Feeding medium, the ec levels the plants adapt to go from a stress to a welcome buffet for hungry plants, and if you can match feeds to co2 in ideal conditions limits of plant growth and resistance are expanded so instead of wasting time and money trying to fix problems you get to instead try to keep up on maintaining ideal conditions... Which is ultimately your job as a plant tender.
rykus is offline Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 01-07-2016, 11:39 PM #5
ReikoX
Knight of the BlackSvn

ReikoX's Avatar

Join Date: May 2015
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,714
ReikoX is a splendid one to beholdReikoX is a splendid one to beholdReikoX is a splendid one to beholdReikoX is a splendid one to beholdReikoX is a splendid one to beholdReikoX is a splendid one to beholdReikoX is a splendid one to beholdReikoX is a splendid one to beholdReikoX is a splendid one to beholdReikoX is a splendid one to beholdReikoX is a splendid one to behold
I'll follow along.
ReikoX is offline Quote


Old 01-07-2016, 11:43 PM #6
rykus
Member

rykus's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Under lights
Posts: 841
rykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nice
Thanks McKush! Glad to have you along and hopefully some of my ramblings will have a positive affect on your plant/tender relationship..... This is the biggest challenge of being a successful plant tender is to manage to put the human first drama on the back burner and learn to be a supportive nurturer of plants,lol, call me a hippy but you will be rewarded! The plant has very simple needs and the biggest want/need of any plant is consistency, and if at every meeting you find faults and panic with extreme measures you plant will not trust you and protect itself by consuming less and growing less as to ensure its survival in your whim based environment the plant is trying to exist in....

To go back to the weight lifter thing, think back to the British TV show where they find an extreme obese person and a anorexic person and make them co exist... That's the panic a high feeding plant feels in a flush... Even in my soil mix by day 21 of flower if I do 2 feeds under 1 ec I will notice a loss of colour... To me that means my soil is still supporting the plant but the plant is also drawing on reserves... So even a few low ec waters is affecting the plant...I usually just add organic food like earth juice and Alaska fish to adjust ph down to 6 so about 1 ec, also feeds with alfalfa and humic said help build up soil for higher feeds later.

I like to pre veg in 2 gals for 10-15 days, never root bound if I can avoid for max health and growth, I will clean out insides a tiny bit but no real stripping or stress added, just easy fast growth... High humidity is bonus too. Then into the big pot, 10-15 days to establish then flower.... I find using this fast easy growth with low or no stress plant size is more determined by genetics, I avoid excessively bushy strains or ones that grow fluffy buds without direct light..... They are too much work IMO... And most plant work is adding a form of stress that can affect yield/structure.
Around day ten of flower and max 25 in the big pot, the plant will start to be able to handle more feed and co2, this is when I will add in instead of slower organic feeds and soil building enzymes and humates, I will add faster acting refined mineral salt based foods. I usually just use a basic one part bloom feed like super natural bloom, and like to have a no N bloom boost like 0-50-30 or such to ensure lots of phosphorus in the heavy bloom phase. I also up my co2 to a avoid insects as the plants lose resistance when they focus more energy into the bloom production, and b to avoid stress of over feed in this crucial time.... I was feeding about 3.5 ec or 1750 ppm and 6.3 ph and getting run out of 6 ec 3000ppm and 6.4 ph.... No burn, but this did stress the plants slightly and yielded slightly less than when I had a lower run out at same time on previous run.
rykus is offline Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 01-08-2016, 12:08 AM #7
rykus
Member

rykus's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Under lights
Posts: 841
rykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nice
The biggest factors if I can say set this system apart is a the rooms are a design by a crew locally I worked for as a youth... Essentially the whole room is a giant shade, by eliminating the corners you reflect way more light from the vertically hung bulbs back down on the top and back of the plant, also the small cu/f give superior air exchange and even more light reflection.

I further use this by establishing a system of low stress training and strengthening by every 2 days when I do my visit I turn every plant 1/4 turn and fluff the branches by gently untangling them after they are all turned and lightly bending all the branches that are on the bulb side of the plant parallel with the floor..... This strengthens the branches by lightly breaking the joints with the main stem which develops to be very strong and will support way more weight with no tying( I don't tie either) it also lets the light straight into the middle of the plant so instead of paying people to come and remove all those buds at a great stress to the plant, instead you provide them light and they develop to more viable sites... So less work, more production, less stress.....after day 21 or so I focus less on main branches and instead pull spindly ones shooting up the middle out to the light, and bend down secondary branches instead to be 90* from their side main stems, you'll be supriesed how much light this lets in with zero material removed... And some of the defoliating I see here, wow...


Leaves are solar panels that not only turn light into plant energy but store nutrition water and also convert co2... All essential to high yield... Either manipulate the plant to get light to but sites or mathematically remove bud sites but keep leaf... Leaf is power for plants, pretty common sense, only time I recommend defoliating is to remove bugs.... But that is indicative of a deeper problem IMO so maybe just better starting over unless far into bloom...

Anyways by turning the plants you are getting full light to the plants 15/60 days to each side, if you flip 180* you get 2 hallow sides so 90 is better.. By bending and training branches instead of striping you get more light to more buds with lower stress... Basic stuff but huge increase in health and in turn yield with faster growth and this compounds in a year time...

Let's say your fighting problems and working with root bound plants bugs ect, your time between crops can be longer, yields lower, expenses higher because of quick fix solutions like bug sprays ect, and lower yields which often cost more to process take more time to process and get lower prices at market... There is the vicious loop

I have a friend that Vegs in 3 gal for 6 weeks, then his 9 week bloom, then drys in the room so lucky to get cycled in 13 weeks even with 3 weeks pre veg. And bills are same every month... So if he gets 1.5 lbs per still less crops a year and increase expense and hassle let alone a 1 or less could cost money!

Healthy plants cost less yeild more and are a joy to maintain and process... Sickly plants will be a constant stress and require more work to produce less... And that's not even factoring in the health factors of smoking plants that have been repeatedly doused in poison and grown in less than ideal situations.

Last edited by rykus; 01-08-2016 at 03:48 AM..
rykus is offline Quote


3 members found this post helpful.
Old 01-08-2016, 12:30 AM #8
Boyd Crowder
Teem MiCr0B35

Boyd Crowder's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: 2.2k Organix CircleJurk
Posts: 2,120
Boyd Crowder has much to be proud ofBoyd Crowder has much to be proud ofBoyd Crowder has much to be proud ofBoyd Crowder has much to be proud ofBoyd Crowder has much to be proud ofBoyd Crowder has much to be proud ofBoyd Crowder has much to be proud ofBoyd Crowder has much to be proud ofBoyd Crowder has much to be proud ofBoyd Crowder has much to be proud ofBoyd Crowder has much to be proud of
Boyd Crowder has completed 1 grow reports. Click to see my Grow Reports
subbed
__________________
Sometimes, you just get lucky
____________________________

"You want to make a living in this business you need to know your ABC's. Always Be Cool" - Boyd Crowder
_____________________________

My Grows:
Bodhi Super Snow Lotus -Ongoing
Karma Biker Kush 1.0 2.2k Organic Circle Jerk - Done
Official Bugman Testers & Pics Thread - Ongoing
Thinking Vertical 101: The Build and Grow - Hangout/Current
Certified Noob Recycled Organic Soil Test Grow A Rama Done
GhettoGrow - Beginners Journey to Harvest for less than $1500 Done
______________________________ _
Tests:
gravity vs ultra snow storm vs bloombastic hoedown showdown growdown - Delayed till 2018
______________________________ _
Boyd Crowder is offline Quote


Old 01-08-2016, 12:37 AM #9
rykus
Member

rykus's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Under lights
Posts: 841
rykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nice
Now this bring us to the point in the "theoretical grow" where we get to the day 45-56 depending on strain.... All my previous statements are retracted(except about ignoring common sense or using toxic poisons) this phase of growth is about using environment and stress to force the plant to finish and pump out every bit of stored energy in the form of smelly oils,crystals and colours!

Basically first step is even earlier day 40-50 you start to lower feeds, as the plant starts to age it will become less resistant to heat,light and food... So food and co2 can start to come down slowly and plants can be feed more so they stay a bit damper...then all the leaves with visible stem should be removed... This stresses the ever lovin shit out of the plant and takes away all the reserves it built up in its relaxed comfort....wha ha ha... Also make flush easier, but don't flush to much just take the nitrogen out so the shit burns nice... As I said 1 ec is a flush, if you break a branch it usually burns great, day 45 2000 ppm no problem, same plant flushed to excess will not burn well at all! Just enough

But yeah, taking off all the leaves also gets even light to all the buds, so the smaller nugs that only get light every 8th day (1/4 turn a day every 2 days) get steady light for 2 weeks and get a better colour so instead of lime green inner dark outer it all looks good, and will actually fill in and weigh in... After leaves are removed the buds break off easier so I don't always turn as often if they're huge, specially the middle row of plants as the wall plants get more space because I kind of wrap the wall rows at the ends to full surround the bulbs for extra space and weight!

In this final ripening phase you need to keep in mind that medicinal plants have been proven to have higher medicinal value when grown under stressful environment, while this is unpractical for commercial growers it is a tool to force finish and improve quality in the final weeks. I like to use temperature of the air/water and ph/ saturation levels to bring out colour and flavour and oils and aroma... Pretty basic but still often overlooked aspect of growing quality herbs while maintaining that low cost, no compromise overview of growing in general.

Once all this is said and done, again I can't say how common it is to see growers put in all this work just to trash their product in the final steps.... Straight up handling the plant at all wet is degrading and damaging the final product.... Hang the plants in a low but present wind room about 65* and 65% humidity for 6-10 days then buck them down and store them in totes or bags with the leaves on for another 5-10 days and trim dry... Essentially to smell and look IMO... Why put out all that time and money only to throw you medicine around in a mad panic like it's garbage on the way to the side of the street... I've literally seen people throwing around dry product in bags just destroying the look and creating waste... Too wet and will take forever to process and will clump and loose smell, too dry and will crumble and loose weight and bag appeal.... I like to have stems just a tad green, but leaves crumble... Buds should make slight noise when pinched and resume shape, not crumble or stay compressed.

I got a bunch of pics of my last run, but might take me a bit to figure out a way I feel comfortable posting so feel free to discuss... I will answer anything I feel confident about, and would appreciate any input about feed and soil. I'm here to learn and push my personal best too!
rykus is offline Quote


1 members found this post helpful.
Old 01-08-2016, 01:14 AM #10
rykus
Member

rykus's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Under lights
Posts: 841
rykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nicerykus is just really nice
Some product I do use and like, although I will be much happier when I learn to make my own are....

Earth juice... Good stuff, drops ph and has different sources from some other organic feeds so good for mixing. I like to use less of a few feeds that lots of 1 for a wider variety of organic matter...
I hate to admit I like these products because the company is a joke here in BC but they do work... Damnit... But advanced bud ignitor is awesome for a bit of ec bump in early flower and seems to promote huge and healthy development in the transition phase of growth.
I also use their overdrive as it seems to be a nice finisher that doesn't affect burn and can be fed right till chop, seems like they like it and finish beautifully... Not essential though...

I did use a lot of voodoo too, but when prices dropped that was first to go and yields are same.... Roots don't look quite as good at TP...

I use to use lots of GH organic line but fuck Monsanto! Still the flora blend is killer and I will miss it and that is going to be the start of my alfalfa tea mission, so in the end a bonus in my knowlage that GH is off my list.

I use green planet massive and Zyme, but the Aussie version is monsta bud and Zyme liquid... Massive is essential IMO and makes some damn frosty smoke! That and overdrive is my go too for a nice end feed, just massive and od is about 1 ec and low nitrogen..

Like canna labs potassium silicate as it is a gel so low usage... Gotta add a lot to keep ph up in mid flower... In my medium I do 6 6.2 till about day 21 flower then up it a bit to compensate for feeds... So feed at 6.3-6.5 and water(usually an enzyme or cal/mg) at closer to 7... If I use the watery stuff I can use up to 4 litres in a 60 gal res in heavy feed.... I add first and should end up ph 9-10 then add feeds, any micros I add last as the high ph heavy P will kill calcium and other micro nutes.... Also why I do my cal/mg with just water not mixed with heavy feed...

I like a cal/mg too as stated... Basically I never water... Just add in my delicate or dedicated feeds like cal/mg, enzymes, sugars or other things my high feed could affect, also when I'm feeding really high in day 21-45 range gotta be careful when you feel and enzyme... Best to feed after a bigger water when the soil has a bit of moisture so the strong feed doesn't hit dry roots, also have to be careful not to let the soil dry out to much after heavy feed as if the plant uses more water than feed the ec of the soil goes up... By the same token, if your soil has a high ec, best to do a light feed to lower the ec before adding enzymes because this can make too much available to the plant causing stress.... Always be watching the leaves for signs and fallow your gut...

That's pretty well it I guess, except sugars, I use sweet by botanic are for later flower with the chem feeds, and molasses based sugars any other time to help feed enzymes and soil.

I also used vegimatrix food and really liked the different sources again but also very ph neutral so great for keeping mix a bit higher in ph with out using so much silicate, humic acid is also a ph up in some brands.my local store doesn't like the company though so I'm looking at others too.

Used a tea product called benofox I liked too but is pretty spendy, as is growth plus, the old stand by foliar sea weed product!

Last edited by rykus; 01-08-2016 at 02:10 AM..
rykus is offline Quote


1 members found this post helpful.

Post Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:07 PM.


Click to Visit Mars Hydro for Growroom Lights and Tents


This site is for educational and entertainment purposes only.
You must be of legal age to view ICmag and participate here.
All postings are the responsibility of their authors.
Powered by: vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.