[Phaeton]

Originally Posted by soserthc1

Good post curious as to your thoughts as the best to this point. I run both led and hps and am about to purchase a new led. I'm currently using a platinum with my hps

First off, I have a bias against 'white' LEDs. The phosphors are the same as in fluorescent bulbs but LEDs use blue to fluoresce the phosphors and mercury fluorescents use UV to fluoresce the phosphors.
The phosphors for deeps red do not fluoresce with blue, causing the 'white' LED put out very little red past 611 nm.
If a red supplement is needed anyway then why not start fresh and use what functions for the plant instead of what pleases the human eye.
That said..

I have not found any LED that does everything I would like.

Black Dog has excellent spectrum and will out grow an equivalent CMH by a slight margin. I used 400 watts versus 400 watts. The Black Dog would do better if it did not scatter so much light.
But still, it will out grow CMH and has no bulbs to change.
If you are current running stand alone HPS you will notice a week to ten day earlier harvest with the spectrum put out by Black Dog.

Second choice is Advanced Diamond XTE series. Advanced makes several series of lights, the XTE has the good spectrum and intensity.
The light is focused and the footprint is less than the Black Dog. The smaller footprint means a smaller plant. Even so, using two XTE's against two CMH's was almost an even match with 670 watts making better cola's but 800 watts making more total weight.

Platinum has too much red with both switches on and almost enough red with just the veg switch. Good in veg mode but leaving half the power unused.

Hydrogrow has major warranty problems and units that need warranty due to poor quality control. Otherwise they would be up there with Black Dog. The diode failure rate ran 15% per year on the two years I kept records. Ouch.

ILS, Intelligent Light Source, is good for clones. It is more than good, it is stupendous for clones with four programmed spectrums plus custom, and four intensity levels. Far Red has it's own level control, as do red and blue. It will take any strain and make it do it's best up to 12" tall. I have two of the 300 watt (4') and six of the 150 watt (2').
These are perfect T5 replacements and I also use them for side lighting. Not for budding though.

Inexpensive panels and screw in bulb arrays I tried did not work, but there are hundreds of cheapies and I only tried three.

I also only tried those five brands of large lights. Most brands were eliminated by their own advertising, lies took them off the list. Some told a very narrow portion of truth and counted on lack of biology education to deceive buyers.

A lot of LED units will still grow marijuana, only not as well. I use HPS as my example. HPS has no blue nor does it have deep reds, but it has been a mainstay source of light ever since the days of Mercury Vapor lamps. Different techniques for different lights.

When I help set up gardens in my area I always enthusiastically go with whatever light is chosen, the difference is small and peace of mind is large.

In my own garden I am quite opinionated and any advice reflects my personal foibles.

The thumbnail is a pair of Black Dogs, a pair of CMHs, an LED sidelight, A hanging Far Red bulb, and the back of a T5, which has the UVB.
I am not happy with any single light, it takes a combo to replace the sun.

[PetFlora]

There's a huge deception regarding cannabis only needing chlorophyll A/B and the mass marketing of Blurple (B/R) LEDs, or perhaps that leafs are green because they reflect the green spectrums

This lie has long been dispelled, but the absurd marketing budgets to promote blurple seems to have dominated the conversation

Here is an excellent YT video by 3 basically DIYers with lots of REAL science. Amare Technologies and Transcend Lighting are 2 white based panels I have had excellent results with. At ~ 47 minutes the importance of the McCree curve is explained as it relates to leaf light absroption

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gax_f11HSgU

[norcallefty]

Hey petflora, I saw this on their new site

"

To create the most advanced spectrum for complete physiological plant growth, we had to challenge every assumption. Not only did this make the spectra better, it made it beautiful. Previously, 700nm (red) and 400nm (blue) were the most efficient LED packages, and coincided with peak Chl A and Chl B absorption areas. This led to a negligence of key photoreceptors and pigments outside this range.



PhysioSpec Indoor is a full-cycle spectrum optimized for rapid growth and complete plant development. Tailored for growing plants from initiation to senescence (germination, clones/cuttings, mothers, vegetative and flowering applications) in indoor environments. With a CRI rating of 85, PhysioSpec Indoor offers a beautiful work and research environment with vivid colors and greater contrast to study the health of your crop.
"

When i called in they mentioned doing what u said and changing out the lights to more white lighting. Would you reconsider them now they have made this change and dropped their price so much?

let me know very interested in which leds to run

[PetFlora]

Originally Posted by norcallefty

Hey petflora, I saw this on their new site

"

To create the most advanced spectrum for complete physiological plant growth, we had to challenge every assumption. Not only did this make the spectra better, it made it beautiful. Previously, 700nm (red) and 400nm (blue) were the most efficient LED packages, and coincided with peak Chl A and Chl B absorption areas. This led to a negligence of key photoreceptors and pigments outside this range.



PhysioSpec Indoor is a full-cycle spectrum optimized for rapid growth and complete plant development. Tailored for growing plants from initiation to senescence (germination, clones/cuttings, mothers, vegetative and flowering applications) in indoor environments. With a CRI rating of 85, PhysioSpec Indoor offers a beautiful work and research environment with vivid colors and greater contrast to study the health of your crop.
"

When i called in they mentioned doing what u said and changing out the lights to more white lighting. Would you reconsider them now they have made this change and dropped their price so much?

let me know very interested in which leds to run

Are you aware that I have a first gen SPYDR 600 where I selected the diode colors? BML panels were not cannabis specific. I had several conversations with Nick explaining white v R/B for cannabis, AND, that a white based panel would sell better as only ONE panel was needed for both veg and flower. Mine is ~ 95% white + 5% 625 red/450 blue. He never followed my lead, probably due to the idiots on another site, who had their own non BML agenda, slamming my weekly picture post updates.

I kept Nick abreast of my progress and when I was finishing up that grow 2 different phenos of Med-Man Silver Skunk BX 1 which finished in 6/15...



he told me of his new SPYDR 1200. I suggested he replace mine with it, but he never responded. Turned out it was more of the same non cannabis oriented, blurple based light, You would think my input would have been acted upon, but no, so I moved on.

I have been to their new site. Their new sales pitch seems very mumbo- jumbo to cover their asses from previous focus on chloro A/B stupidity, not paying attention to what I was telling Nick ~ 2 years ago (Mc Cree Curve is the key). At least now, they are recognizing their mistakes (all plants benefit from full spectrum), but, they are followers playing catch up, not leaders.

Amare is a leader, with lights developed specifically for cannabis. Their price and warranty is great, so unless Fluence wants to send me a panel for a 33-36 x 33-36 tent to compare, there is really nothing for me to recommend

[norcallefty]

What about all the videos of these things crushing gavitas with less energy consumption?

So unless they have you a new 1200 unit u said you wouldn't recommend them?

[PetFlora]

Originally Posted by norcallefty

What about all the videos of these things crushing gavitas with less energy consumption?

So unless they have you a new 1200 unit u said you wouldn't recommend them?

Do you see what they did there? It's not about comparing to a Gavita, but to actual LED competitors, that are designed for cannabis

Without having one to compare to either the Amare or the Transcend how could I?

Further, unless they re-engineered the quality of parts used to slide the bars along the spine, I would not recommend the SPYDRs if you plan to slide the bars in/out once the light is up

[chomsky]

I will admit right off the bat I dont know nearly as much as most of you posting here with regards to LED Lighting. However, I must chime in because I have the Spydr x plus on order and it will be here in a matter of days. I for one am excited as hell. I read lots of posts especially yours PetFlora and while I certainly admire your expertise the Spydr 600 you have cant be compared to the BML 1200 much less the new Spydr X Plus. In BML's own testing they showed that the 600 was good however, inferior to other lights in the testing. I know HPS has been the gold standard for years and I have always used them. I am still eager to see how this SpydrX Plus performs. Phaeton as far as I can tell most of the brands you are talking about like Black Dog and Advanced are relatively low end consumer grade lights with a lot of marketing behind them. IM NOT TRYING TO START AN ARGUMENT... I just sense a lot of hating and bravado when as you say you dont like misinformation and you have no REAL information about the Spyder X Plus. They are new on the the market. Wait and see. Ill be posting my results... AND Unless these guys are outright lying how can you argue the results? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9gdoTO3_kw

and heres a link to BML's NEW website with the newly engineered lights. https://www.fluence.science/

PS. Im not on their payroll

[chomsky]

BY the way, the reason I decided to switch to LED in the first place is because I used a KIND LED that a friend gave me as a supplemental light. I used the kind on one side and a T-5 fixture on the other (both supplemental to my 600 watt HPS on a 4x4 grow). The buds on the LED side were noticeably denser and definitely producing more trichs. I'll keep you posted on the Spydr X Plus...

[stoned-trout]

hid rules ...yeehaw..led are for the space station

[PetFlora]

Originally Posted by chomsky

I will admit right off the bat I dont know nearly as much as most of you posting here with regards to LED Lighting. However, I must chime in because I have the Spydr x plus on order and it will be here in a matter of days. I for one am excited as hell. I read lots of posts especially yours PetFlora and while I certainly admire your expertise the Spydr 600 you have cant be compared to the BML 1200 much less the new Spydr X Plus. In BML's own testing they showed that the 600 was good however, inferior to other lights in the testing. I know HPS has been the gold standard for years and I have always used them. I am still eager to see how this SpydrX Plus performs. Phaeton as far as I can tell most of the brands you are talking about like Black Dog and Advanced are relatively low end consumer grade lights with a lot of marketing behind them. IM NOT TRYING TO START AN ARGUMENT... I just sense a lot of hating and bravado when as you say you dont like misinformation and you have no REAL information about the Spyder X Plus. They are new on the the market. Wait and see. Ill be posting my results... AND Unless these guys are outright lying how can you argue the results? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9gdoTO3_kw

and heres a link to BML's NEW website with the newly engineered lights. https://www.fluence.science/

PS. Im not on their payroll

Good luck with your purchase, but I'll stick with people who make lights specifically for cannabis