[Old Gold]

Aha, sweet. I was almost wondering if they weren't your own replications. I just remember GWPharma mentioning Sephadex LH-20.

[G.O. Joe]

Originally Posted by Old Gold

^ That was pulled from GW Pharma patent, correct?

Originally Posted by live resin

No that stuff wasn't in the GW patent. This is from people at the University of Mississippi that were replicating the experiments and reviewing these patents

Originally Posted by Old Gold

Aha, sweet. I was almost wondering if they weren't your own replications. I just remember GWPharma mentioning Sephadex LH-20.

No one replicated anything, and it's all from the patent except the column loading. 30:1 is 13.3 grams. Both the US and WO versions say 20 ml. of something liquid and representing 100 grams of herb of unspecified THCA content was applied to the column, they ended up with the 5 grams of THCA, and there are earlier mentions of a THCA starting material - but not how they got it or what it's for - that's 72% THCA and 17% THC, which sounds unlikely from a hexane extract, slightly acidified or not. The real experimental details like the flow rate and which fractions had cannabinoids are absent, and this is the case for every mind-numbing example given.

[Phineas Freak]

Originally Posted by thegreenman91

Non psychoactive and a powerful inflammatory.

Thanks for the reply. Thats what I read and thought too.

I tried a tincture made off a couple fresh undried buds. To my knowledge there should be mostly THCA present and no THC. I drank all and did wake up some hours later, so I am not absolutely sure it is psychoactive, but it sure had a strong effect. lol
I won't come across fresh buds before maybe next autumn, so I cannot try again soon.

Another thing I wonder is, shouldn't THCA as an acid be water soluble?

[live resin]

Originally Posted by Phineas Freak

Another thing I wonder is, shouldn't THCA as an acid be water soluble?

The 2-carboxyl group by itself could be considered hydrophilic, but being next to the hydrophobic alkyl side chain on the 3 position, it doesn't change solubility of the molecule at all imo. Otherwise, everyone would be extracting fresh plant material with water to make live resin.

To make cannabinoids soluble you need to change that alkyl side chain or the phenolic hydroxyl group, or both. A carboxyl group in the 2 position would like hinder modification of the hydroxyl group, though I need to look into that more to be sure.

What is interesting about this though, is that when you start modifying the alkyl side chain to make it water soluble it also sometimes affects the psychoactivity of the molecule.

[Phineas Freak]

Thanks for your explanation.

While my a bit faded chemistry is good enough to follow you, I couldn't decide if you are right or not. But it sounds plausible to me.

THCA in the resin gland is definitely not water soluble in substantial amounts or rain or a waterhash extraction would dissolve THCA into the water.
It is of course just anectodal observation. But as you said:"Otherwise, everyone would be extracting fresh plant material with water to make live resin."


To make cannabinoids watersoluble it would maybe be easier to just dissolve them in glycerine and add this to water?
(Not interesting for you if you want to make live resin of course.)

What is interesting about this though, is that when you start modifying the alkyl side chain to make it water soluble it also sometimes affects the psychoactivity of the molecule.

Do you mean THCA would maybe get psychoactive, if made watersoluble by this method?

[live resin]

Originally Posted by Phineas Freak

Do you mean THCA would maybe get psychoactive, if made watersoluble by this method?

No, THCA cannot be psychoactive as far as I know. The carboxyl group hinders binding at CB1.

It will increase or decrease the psychoactivity of the THC molecule (the strength and duration of the high).

For example, microgram amounts of dimethylheptyl THC will keep you "stoned" for 2+ days. Except "stoned" becomes something more like an acid trip, about +3 on the Shulgin scale. Cannabinoids are hallucinogens after all.

[Phineas Freak]

So in my test, maybe the alcohol contributed to the effect.

I would not want to test dimethylheptyl THC, or any other manipulated molecule newly on humans.

I am sure someone will.

[weedaholic721]

IMO semisynthetic/synthetic cannabinoid analogs, as well as other non classical CB1 and CB2 agonists, are a seperate field and if ingested by humans should be done so extremely cautiously.

Has anyone else succeeded in producing crystalline THC-acid? The Guild Extract company appears to have the process pretty streamlined as they are producing a fairly large amount. If you are attending the Cannabis Cup in L.A. they have a booth and have it available, it also is available in San Jose. The problem is they have kept their process secret as far as I know but as mentioned before it appears to be jist crystallized from a bho solution as Pangea has posted.

I'm sure chromatograpy and isolates are the future. For now, its getting the methods out there so anyone with enough material and intelligence can produce isolates on there own. I currently lack material to achieve anything worthwhile.

[Pangea]

They probably recrystallize it after forming seeds from slow evap, its what I do and it can be done quick and easy.

Most processors could add the slow evap process to their regular extraction/purging process/routine by just adding a step between extracting and purging their product, they'd first form seed crystals on order of 10-30% of your total concentrate solution. The guild guys jumped on it quick they are for sure using the info ive shared, there is no secret and if they are not being open about it to capitalize on being first to market, thats not cool.

Price of crystalline thca should be the same as reg concentrates.

How many guys blast tube all day everyday? Instead of pouring or scraping into vac ovens first pour your solutions into mason jars, fill them at least half full, let them sit in a dark coolish area, my temps have ranged from 5 - 20oC, avoid sudden temp changes, avoid agitation, control evaporation speeds with jar lid and band, you can tighten it and release the preasure at different time intervals, this way allows you some more control vs a loose lid, once your jar head space pressure fills crystallization will slow/stop, until the pressure is released and evaporation can continue. After two to three weeks you will should have decent seed crystal formation, you can remove the crystals and pour the solution onto parchment for regular vac purge processing.

Imagine all the processers out there that could turn 10% of their product into pure thca just by adding a cost free step!

The recrystallization is easy, for simplicity and purity I recommend redissolving into distilled butane because of its low bp it will be basically impossible for there to be any trace residuals, if your seed crystals are nearly pure(no surface area contam, no internal nucleating contam particles).

Ive been able to redissolve purified seed crystals into butane, once the butane off gasses you form an amorphous shatter/glass that is clear and pure as can be. As soon as a nucleating force is exposed to the shatter/glass it literally explodes into pure microscopic crystals, expanding to many times its original covered surface area, instantly. Its really cool. The less pure the slower it happens, but its still quick and cool.

[cashish]

Originally Posted by Pangea

There are many reasons for developing chromatography methods for isolating cannabinoids, I am sure even if GW Pharm were aware of the simplicity involved in a method like ive shared they would still pursue and research other methods, there are utility and merits to different paths.

Ive shared it a few times, but guess I can be more detailed.

The recrystallization for purity part is pretty standard, the initial crystallization part is the first hurdle and just as simple. Its actually easier than making traditional BHO as it involves less steps. Instead of spreading thin and purging, collect it in a container/vessel that allows for slow, controlled evaporation, depth of the solution vs surface area is a important factor as is the headspace and lid for evaporation. A container like a graduated cylinder is ideal or a regular 250ml mason jar filled at least half full work as well. The larger the surface area the easier it is for the solution to crash, and also has other limiting factors. The solution viscosity is important as well, I vac my collection chamber down to -20, there is no liquid tane, I cannot pour out the solution, I scape collect it, but its basically like a No 1. maple syrup consistancy, very liquidy, very terpy, glass baster/droppers work well to transfer.

So recap,

1. Collect bho into proper vessel.
2. Store in proper area; consistent temp, limit light, limit vibrations, limit disturbances.
3. Wait until satisfied with crystallization amount.
4. Pour off un crystallized solution into new vessel to further form crystals(depends on state of solution) or pour/spoon out and treat remaining solution as if it was just extracted, so either vac purge or decarb for edibles.
5. Carefully collect crystals from the bottom of the vessel(probably where a jar has a advantage over a skinny cylinder)

I've been able to grow crystals in little 2.5ml vials with high terp varieties after they have been vac purged, just by leaving the lid loose.

I've had a crystal in a sealed solution of RO water since I first collected them, it hasnt changed. Ive had a few in indirect sunlight for 60 or so days with no visible changes. They are quite stable.

I am excited to see some really large crystals, they're going to look very cool!

Not sure I understand. Just collect bho solution into container without additional solvents besides the butane/propane mix?