My terpenator just exploed under about 73 PSI

pictureguy · Oct 31, 2015

The bottom of my terpenator just exploded when I shot it up with about 73 PSI of air pressure. I was testing to see if it would hold it pressure and it was slowly losing pressure over an hour. It dropped to about 60 PSI so I shot it back up to 75 PSI and closed the valves. After about 2 minutes it just fucking exploded in my face and shredded my hand up pretty good

pictureguy · Oct 31, 2015

holy fucking shit it was louder then a gunshot

my hand is leaking pretty good i gotta patch this fucking shit up

A6 Grower · Oct 31, 2015

WHAT!?!?! What broke? The tri clamp holding the bottom??? Did you over tighten it?? I must know more, 75psi is no where near its limit.

HG23 · Oct 31, 2015

pictureguy said:
From my minimal reading, I determined I needed to upgrade my single pin clamps to high pressure clamps in order to use ptfe gaskets. I can't even get single pins to torque proper when using ptfe gaskets. I always torque so hard my bolts bend slightly, I never go light, what's the point? I actually just upgraded to tuf - steel which seems so work amazing, I haven't had a single issue.

I have used epdm insert ptfe gaskets, I torqued them so hard they mashed to garbage. I should post the pic lol.

I always use my air compressor to blast my machine to 100 PSI to check for leaks before running with flammable gas. I only once had a leak from not to equine hard enough the first time, and that's when I noticed the epdm gasket was mashed, so I over torqued.

Torque them bolts

I hope you're ok man, that is very strange at that low pressure. Is there a chance your air pressure gauge is off?

The above quote is from the gasket thread, is it possible the clamp hardware failed from repeated over torquing and stressing the threads?

pictureguy · Oct 31, 2015

I should be dead...

I use a battery operated driver and torque the nuts until the drill cant, and spin the nut 2 more times with a wrench for torqueing ptfe, and 3 more times for tuf steel. I dont overtighten anymore because its just extra work, and the system of X amount of turns I was using worked well. The clamps dont close on each side, and the bolts dont bend. I ceased that after people told me the extra time I was wasting and it wasnt necessary.

Terpz · Oct 31, 2015

Take care of yourself first. Share the experience second. Glad you are okay. Stay safe!

A6 Grower · Oct 31, 2015

pictureguy said:
I should be dead...

I use a battery operated driver and torque the nuts until the drill cant, and spin the nut 2 more times with a wrench for torqueing ptfe, and 3 more times for tuf steel. I dont overtighten anymore because its just extra work, and the system of X amount of turns I was using worked well. The clamps dont close on each side, and the bolts dont bend. I ceased that after people told me the extra time I was wasting and it wasnt necessary.

But what broke??? The clamp? The bolt? The nut?

pictureguy · Oct 31, 2015

I was pressure testing the system as usual like I do before any run of flammable gas.

I set up the system as normal, and shot the system up to 80 PSI. Over the course of an hour, the PSI dropped to about 60 or so. So I went and dunked the terpenator into water and notice the bottom where the shatter platter was had a few bubbles coming up really slowly, thinking it maybe needed a slight tweak, I released the pressure and tightened that nut slightly on the side of the clamp that looked a tad bit more open. I blasted the machine back up the 75 PSI and closed off the valves from the compressor and unplugged the hose.... I was bent over and looking at the pressure gauge and tapped on it twice to see if it would change as it dropped to 73, normally my terpenator drops a few PSI right after I pressurize it and turn it off. That took like 60 seconds, and I was literally about to bend upwards to go to other things for 10 minutes while I waited to see if it still held pressure, and it just went kaboom.

After assessing the explosion damage, the point at fault was where the terpenator lid, is attached to the recovery pot. There are 2 high pressure clamps holding this spot, and I believe my brass nut on one side just fucking exploded and shredded into nothing. My lag bolt holding that side is bent pretty well and totally unusable. The washers are in perfect condition. I only can find tiny shreds of brass nut so I am assuming it just got destroyed or maybe it shot somewhere I cant find it. The terpenator was anchored to the ceiling, however it flew and smashed into a bucket and dented the column and then fell to the ground and dented the dump valve port into recovery pot pretty hard. I think some part of the nut fired off into my hand

I think that covers most of that

A6 Grower · Oct 31, 2015

Yeah those brass nuts will strip out from over tightening and shoot off like a bullet @krunchbubble had the same thing happen to one of his nuts. I replace them every few months or so. Glad your alive!!

Ras Mason · Nov 1, 2015

woe that s fucked up!
good thing your ok.
Krunchbubble lost a nut from this?
one
peace

Rickys bong · Nov 1, 2015

There's nothing wrong with using high grade plated steel nuts for this application. The reason brass is sold with these is for washdown applications where steel is not acceptable.
Stainless nuts can gall and seize of course on SS bolts.

For that matter, buy high grade steel bolts as well, this will offer the most reliable bolted connection when it is being dis-assembled regularly. Make sure they are lubed.

Glad you were not hurt severely.

RB

A6 Grower · Nov 1, 2015

I also toss a second nut on the end. Just hand tight, if i cant take it back off by hand ater the run then my main nut is bad and i toss it. The second nut also prevents this problem of the nut coming off while the machine is under pressure

MEMED · Nov 1, 2015

I suggest the title gets changed and perhaps buried. This is straight up user error. Pictureguy needs to slow his speed abit and asses his gear, prolly upgrade, and read some more on safety. Also, think about how hes affecting the portrayal of our craft, and forum with his shenanigans posted on this public place. There is standards of safety for us, look into it. I bet a simple thread check or a regular proper fastener replacement regime coulda prevented this. I like RB's lube idea too, I use it, its nice! Having a second nut sounds good also A6, good1.

I fear we will see much more of this. Safety,Safety,Safety.

oh yeah, glad your ok dude. Stay safe!

jswick93 · Nov 1, 2015

Glad you're alright. I had read about replacing the washers and nuts to prevent this happening. This has pushed me to get some ordered by the end of the weekend though, better sooner than later to swap them out for new ones.

Also really dig the double nutted idea from A6.

Chonkski · Nov 1, 2015

Take care of yourself man. Holy fuck.

Just to clarify Ras Mason, krunch bubble lost a nut off of a bolt on his system. Not off his system. Lol

Everyone who hasn't read it should search "C.L.S accidents malfunctions and failures". I think that's the thread name. Right guys?? Someone please correct that if it's wrong for future viewers

Anyone have good sources to suggest for nuts/bolts? Totally going to start double bolting A6.

MEMED · Nov 1, 2015

I usually scoop mine at tractor supply because its convenient. Grade 5. Changed as needed per inspection or every two weeks. Buy bulk. They sell em by the pound, I like that. Anti seize for the lube. IME....

Be fucking safe you guys. Hope yall had a happy halloween.

Gray Wolf · Nov 1, 2015

pictureguy said:
I was pressure testing the system as usual like I do before any run of flammable gas.

I set up the system as normal, and shot the system up to 80 PSI. Over the course of an hour, the PSI dropped to about 60 or so. So I went and dunked the terpenator into water and notice the bottom where the shatter platter was had a few bubbles coming up really slowly, thinking it maybe needed a slight tweak, I released the pressure and tightened that nut slightly on the side of the clamp that looked a tad bit more open. I blasted the machine back up the 75 PSI and closed off the valves from the compressor and unplugged the hose.... I was bent over and looking at the pressure gauge and tapped on it twice to see if it would change as it dropped to 73, normally my terpenator drops a few PSI right after I pressurize it and turn it off. That took like 60 seconds, and I was literally about to bend upwards to go to other things for 10 minutes while I waited to see if it still held pressure, and it just went kaboom.

After assessing the explosion damage, the point at fault was where the terpenator lid, is attached to the recovery pot. There are 2 high pressure clamps holding this spot, and I believe my brass nut on one side just fucking exploded and shredded into nothing. My lag bolt holding that side is bent pretty well and totally unusable. The washers are in perfect condition. I only can find tiny shreds of brass nut so I am assuming it just got destroyed or maybe it shot somewhere I cant find it. The terpenator was anchored to the ceiling, however it flew and smashed into a bucket and dented the column and then fell to the ground and dented the dump valve port into recovery pot pretty hard. I think some part of the nut fired off into my hand

I think that covers most of that

Glad you are OK brother and that you suffered a clamp nut failure, rather than an actual explosion!

A couple notes. The first is that the nuts should be silicon bronze, not brass. Silicon bronze is used because it has a tensile strength greater than 300 series stainless, and is self lubricating. Not only does it not gall, as stainless to stainless does badly, but it doesn't require Neverseize.

The mechanical advantage when tightening a thread is tremendous, so when a silicon bronze nut is over torqued, first the threads reach yield and start to stretch, and then they reach ultimate tensile and separate.

That is why its important to use a torque wrench when tightening them and not exceed 20 ft/lbs.

You should also regularly inspect and periodically replace the nuts.

You can use steel nuts, or even stainless nuts with Neverseize, but you can't reliably use torque values with Neverseize and can distort the fitting itself.

The clamp design itself, uses the mechanical advantage of the 16 threads to the inch clamp bolts to wedge a 10 degree taper joint together for further mechanical advantage.

They have standard ratings based on size, but none are close to their actual ratings at 80 psi.

This issue came up before when Crunchbubble launched a clamp and is a point that should be thoroughly understood by anyone operating an extractor using sanitary fittings and clamps.

pictureguy · Nov 1, 2015

The tubes from the lid that would enter into the recovery pot are slightly bent, could that jeopardize the integrity of the weld overtime?

If I get any nut that has a higher carbon content then stainless bolt that should work perfectly fine with no galling correct?

pictureguy · Nov 1, 2015

The double nut idea is great. Even if I replace my bolts every 3 weeks, after experiancing this event, I personally can never know the exact time a nut can give out, so having 2 is the safety net for the one random time something might give out

pictureguy · Nov 1, 2015

I meant replace nuts every 3 weeks, not bolts

My terpenator just exploed under about 73 PSI

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